NoSaint Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 It is a stretch to think that RG could've made any play on that pass short of LK and the DB not even being there. LK faceguards him, but there is little contact and RG made no move toward the ball. There were several yds between him and the intercepting DB to cover in a fraction of a second. Even in slow mo, there is obviously too much distance and 2 players to go through to get there. LK should have turned around instead of faceguarding RG, and this play wouldn't even be talked about. Take away LK, and there is still no way RG gets to that ball without going through the DB. They were too far apart and RG's momentum is still going toward the backline of the endzone. Holding at best with the poor throw, and a call you usually won't get on the final play unless the pass is on your fingertips or something. A good no call dramatized by the flag from the guy who couldn't see the ball. Holding can only be called before the throw- once the balls in the air it's interference or nothing
dave mcbride Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Holding can only be called before the throw- once the balls in the air it's interference or nothing That is correct.
YoloinOhio Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 I felt like it was PI. No one knows if Gronk could have made a play on the ball unless they let it play out w/out him being interfered with. Crazy plays happen all the time. LK was all over him and had been beaten by him one of the previous plays. I don't know if it should have been called but it seemed like PI.
Wayne Cubed Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 I felt like it was PI. No one knows if Gronk could have made a play on the ball unless they let it play out w/out him being interfered with. Crazy plays happen all the time. LK was all over him and had been beaten by him one of the previous plays. I don't know if it should have been called but it seemed like PI. This is were I disagree, as I have said up thread. The DB realizes it's under thrown before Gronkowski does. By the time Gronkowski realizes it's under thrown it's too late and he's too far away from the ball. This is why the refs rule it uncatcheable. Even if Kuechly isn't there I think Gronkowskis late reaction and momentum makes the ball out of his reach.
Boatdrinks Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Holding can only be called before the throw- once the balls in the air it's interference or nothing Perhaps by the letter of the rule, but you often see holding called after the ball is in the air if the ball is not in the immediate vicinty. This happens all the time by what I see. The holding they called late on McCourty appeared to be post throw. Usually the official watching the receivers isn't watching the QB to see exactly when he released it. They seem to call PI or holding depending on where the ball ends up, and how much the receiver's ability to get there was affected. I may be wrong, but these penalties rarely seem evenly applied by the book so to speak. Even G. Austin on MNF said if any penalty would be applied it would have been holding to him, not PI. The ball was just severely underthrown.
NoSaint Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 No one knows if Gronk could have made a play on the ball unless they let it play out w/out him being interfered with. its the refs job to draw the line of where they feel comfortable saying "you never know" or "wasnt happening"
Clippers of Nfl Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Can reply to everyone At the time Keek makes contact Gronk had slowed his route and began to turn his shoulders and head. Naturally his hips would have been next. He was at a point where he had enough room to make the stop and post on the route to come back to the ball - if only to dive at it and maybe get his finger tips on it. Keek engages physical contact right as Gronk turns and Gronk has little to no position to fight. It could have also been called offensive pass interference if Gronk fought back to the ball. When Keek engages Grobk the CB is outside of Gronk and if you don't think he could have boxed out the CB then I don't know what to tell you. He has done it a lot. And maybe the ball is still intercepted or dropped. But Gronk was illegally touched. Dude he was running towards the back. The distance to come back was too much. Gronk was not in a good position. The db or safety who picked it was in the best position to take it, and did. Gronk was being double teamed. You had a free safety in hawk mode and you had stupid @ Luke. By the way what kind of cover was that???? Hug the intended target??? You have to be stupid to commit that foul to begin with! Specially against the "just give it to them" pats. Also you mention the point of contact happening closer to the beginning of the endzone, ok. He still has to pass through 2 guys on a ball that was underthrown and where he was out of position. So the point of contact doesnt count. He's not superman... Gronk would have had to dive just to be able to get his fingertips on the ball....Ok, fine. However the db who picked it didnt have to have magic powers, he just needed to scoop and pick, like he did. Big difference. This play was bad because of Brady underthrowing badly. This play was bad because of Luke Cheekly almost raping gronk. Stupid!! The play was going to be intercepted period with or without Luke's contact.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 Pass interference all the way. The linebacker initiated contact and had his back to the play and wasn't playing the ball at all. Refs ALWAYS call that on DB's. The linebacker doesn't even know the ball is even thrown to that direction. It's impossible unless he has eyes on the back of his head. Whats more egregious is there is about 2 seconds of contact even before the DB breaks for the ball to intercept and then at that point the LB is literally a brick wall hugging him impeding his movement.
John in Jax Posted November 19, 2013 Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) Pass interference all the way. The linebacker initiated contact and had his back to the play and wasn't playing the ball at all. Refs ALWAYS call that on DB's. The linebacker doesn't even know the ball is even thrown to that direction. It's impossible unless he has eyes on the back of his head. Whats more egregious is there is about 2 seconds of contact even before the DB breaks for the ball to intercept and then at that point the LB is literally a brick wall hugging him impeding his movement. Totally agree with this. Also would like to add that they call PI ALL day long when the ball lands 5-10 yards away from the intended receiver. In the very RARE instance when they pick up the flag for PI because of the ball being deemed "uncatchable", the ball lands 10+ yards away, or in these cases, usually the ball lands way out of bounds, and truly is uncatchable for anyone. One more thing is that some analysts were noting today that if you take the guy who intercepted it out of the picture, the ball would have hit Kookly (sp?) in the back of the legs. Ssssooo, using the latter, if Kookly hadn't face-blocked, bear-hugged, and most importantly, PUSHED Gronk back toward the end line, of course Gronk would have had ample opportunity to make the catch. All Kookly needed to do was NOT raise his arms and put them around Gronk.....him just being there in the way would have prevented Gronk from going back to the ball. ALTHOUGH, we very often see receivers come back to the ball, on an underthrown ball, and they run right through the DB, and then the DB is indeed called for PI, so there's that too. Finally, PI calls & Holding calls drive me crazy, because they are so subjective and so inconsistent with how & when they are called. I really wish they would make PI just a 10 or 15 yard penalty, because there's never any guarantee the guy would catch the ball anyway. Edited November 19, 2013 by John in Jax
mannc Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 Pass interference all the way. The linebacker initiated contact and had his back to the play and wasn't playing the ball at all. Refs ALWAYS call that on DB's. The linebacker doesn't even know the ball is even thrown to that direction. It's impossible unless he has eyes on the back of his head. Whats more egregious is there is about 2 seconds of contact even before the DB breaks for the ball to intercept and then at that point the LB is literally a brick wall hugging him impeding his movement. Not quite. It WOULD HAVE BEEN PI, if Brady had not underthrown the receiver by about 8 yards. Brady has no one to blame but himself.
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) Not quite. It WOULD HAVE BEEN PI, if Brady had not underthrown the receiver by about 8 yards. Brady has no one to blame but himself. Not quite. Where the initial contact (pass interference) with the linebacker with his back to the play occurs is right were the ball is thrown in the endzone. Blatant pass interference. Edited November 20, 2013 by BuffaloBillsForever
26CornerBlitz Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 Ex-NFL ref: ‘Uncatchable’ should only be factor in ‘Tim Tebow-type’ passes: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2013/11/nfl-official-tim-tebow-diss/ Was that really called for?
Prickly Pete Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) This was not the worst call in the history of the NFL. This is being way overblown (like every other minor event). The Panthers deserved to win the game, and handing the Pats a pass interference call would have been wrong. It's obvious that Brady was going to throw to Gronkowski no matter what. He tried to force the ball into tight coverage on a desperation throw, under threw it, and it didn't work out. No more tears please. Edited November 20, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro
NoSaint Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/19/dean-blandino-i-wouldnt-say-the-officials-got-it-wrong/ Head of officials backs the basics of how the call was made. Fits what I expected to hear. They handled the mechanics right, made a fair judgement call- stops a bit short of saying it was right, doesn't say its wrong.
John in Jax Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) http://profootballta...s-got-it-wrong/ Head of officials backs the basics of how the call was made. Fits what I expected to hear. They handled the mechanics right, made a fair judgement call- stops a bit short of saying it was right, doesn't say its wrong. What pure BS. They have NEVER looked to see where a ball lands (in the field of play), and then determined that a PI call should be rescinded. They call PI ALL day & ALL night as long as the pass is anywhere near the receiver; seems like within about 10 yards. In this case, had the pass not been intercepted, it would have easily been catchable for Gronk, if he wasn't being held and pushed back by Keukly. Edited November 20, 2013 by John in Jax
Wayne Cubed Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 What pure BS. They have NEVER looked to see where a ball lands (in the field of play), and then determined that a PI call should be rescinded. They call PI ALL day & ALL night as long as the pass is anywhere near the receiver; seems like within about 10 yards. In this case, had the pass not been intercepted, it would have easily been catchable for Gronk, if he wasn't being held and pushed back by Keukly. Except its not BS. Firstly PI, is RARELY called on the last play of the game. Secondly, you can't just dismiss the fact that the Panthers DB was there and that he intercepted the ball. It's an important part of the call. The DB realizes before Gronkowski that the ball is being underthrown, hence why he cuts in front of Gronkowski to catch the ball. At that point there is definitely no PI on Kuechly. Why doesn't Gronkowski break back towards the ball at the same time the DB does? Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting. I think it's because he doesn't realize how underthrown it is or he thinks he can't stop his 250lb body/momentum on a dime. Either way, he's too late to make a play on the ball.
Prickly Pete Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) Except its not BS. Firstly PI, is RARELY called on the last play of the game. Secondly, you can't just dismiss the fact that the Panthers DB was there and that he intercepted the ball. It's an important part of the call. The DB realizes before Gronkowski that the ball is being underthrown, hence why he cuts in front of Gronkowski to catch the ball. At that point there is definitely no PI on Kuechly. Why doesn't Gronkowski break back towards the ball at the same time the DB does? Kuechly wasn't doing anything to interfer with him besides MAYBE some hand jousting. I think it's because he doesn't realize how underthrown it is or he thinks he can't stop his 250lb body/momentum on a dime. Either way, he's too late to make a play on the ball. Excellent points. I have no doubt that Gronkowski (I'm sick of calling him "Gronk", it sounds idiotic) was trying as hard to get a PI call, as he was trying to catch the ball. It would have been a travesty to allow that to happen. Edited November 20, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro
MattM Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 (edited) In addition, I saw a former ref on ESPN yesterday say that this case is much like a tipped ball case--once the ball has been tipped/contacted by a defender, other defenders are allowed to make contact with a receiver. Here, the ref may have thought that the DB picked the ball at or before the time Gronkowski was touched. In real time motion, that's not an unreasonable view of things. Either way, the Pats* fans need to stop crying about this (although their tears are indeed sweet!), since they've done this to so many teams over the years that I've just about lost count (although the Monday nighter against the Ravens during the 2007 season came glaringly to mind on Monday--you know, the game where every single time the Pats* seemed to be stopped on that last drive the hanky came out, usually well late)..... Edited November 20, 2013 by MattM
26CornerBlitz Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 NFL officials feel heat after controversy in 49ers-Saints, Patriots-Panthers The NFL game isn't getting any easier to officiate, with enhanced player safety measures and definitions of the simplest plays, such as a completed catch, evolving on a yearly basis. Every call is under more intense scrutiny than ever, thanks to the game's unprecedented popularity, high-definition TV, social media and blogs that replay mistakes on an endless loop. WATCH: Brady confronts refs after controversy WATCH: Brooks' controversial Brees hit
BuffaloBillsForever Posted November 20, 2013 Posted November 20, 2013 http://profootballta...s-got-it-wrong/ Head of officials backs the basics of how the call was made. Fits what I expected to hear. They handled the mechanics right, made a fair judgement call- stops a bit short of saying it was right, doesn't say its wrong. So he said nothing at all. Sitting on the fence. This points more to the fact that once the call is made it should not have been overturned.
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