NoSaint Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Problem is that most of those guys aren't going to be available, so the hope here is to exploit the Texans' situation. I think given his price, a second is totally reasonable. I agree, you'd love to get a receiver you could have for 5 years or more, but we have a lot of cost-controlled players who are young. I think this could be a way to supplement them for now till we can find a player like him in the draft. I wonder how he and Mario got along in H-Town. i havent really looked at any 2014 free agent lists, so our opinions may not be as widely apart based on that. id guess hakim nicks hits the market - anyone else? wr you can sometimes see hit the markets - especially with the teams that are already paying for a QB... but then you get into questions about whether it was the qb or the wr that really looked good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 He'll probably end up with the Pats and revive his career like Randy Moss did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I might try to trade Stevie Johnson for him, Andre Johnson is the better player but Stevie Johnson is 5 years younger and has a less expensive contract both become FAs 2017- Stevie's role could be pretty much covered by Robert Wood and Goodwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I just don't think trading for a 32 year old WR is part of this Franchise's current philosophy overall unless you get a Randy Moss-to-NE-type deal... I'm already hoping for Mike Evans if he comes out...I think he's exactly the type of WR this team needs to round out the group they already have... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 so on pace for 1,500 yards and close/over 100 receptions is now over the hill? got it. Your logic is extremly flawed, you bring in playmakers to make your team better. Johnson is a playmaker, and a massive WR, which the Bills need. Lucky for us, our teams front office isn't using your "logic", which is a term I'll use loosely. You don't just "bring in playmakers". That's the logic Dan Snyder tried to use for 10 years running in Washington and it was an epic failure. That was the logic the Bills used when the brought in Terrell Owens, and it was also an epic failure. Houston runs a pass first offense that throws the ball 30+% more than the Bills. Andre Johnson is also getting some serious cash and under contract through 2016. $48 million of the potential $72.2 million he signed for in 2010 was guaranteed. It's not very bright to assume that Houston would be willing to take the cap hit to move him, when they essentially signed him to an "end of career" contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Lucky for us, our teams front office isn't using your "logic", which is a term I'll use loosely. You don't just "bring in playmakers". That's the logic Dan Snyder tried to use for 10 years running in Washington and it was an epic failure. That was the logic the Bills used when the brought in Terrell Owens, and it was also an epic failure. Houston runs a pass first offense that throws the ball 30+% more than the Bills. Andre Johnson is also getting some serious cash and under contract through 2016. $48 million of the potential $72.2 million he signed for in 2010 was guaranteed. It's not very bright to assume that Houston would be willing to take the cap hit to move him, when they essentially signed him to an "end of career" contract. This is nothing like Washington. Snyder went and signed the "top" FAs year in and year out. Regardless of performance. If there was "A name ive heard of" he went and signed him regardless of position. Houston may not have a choice if he wants out. Also, Houston may throw the ball a lot but their QB's are Matt Schaub, Case Keenum and TJ Yates. not exactly top tier QB's. IMO The Bills are missing two key things on offense. A big physical WR who can go up and get it being one of them. If he is available, it would be a mistake for the Bills not to at least inquire about him. I just don't think trading for a 32 year old WR is part of this Franchise's current philosophy overall unless you get a Randy Moss-to-NE-type deal... I'm already hoping for Mike Evans if he comes out...I think he's exactly the type of WR this team needs to round out the group they already have... So waiting on more potential, and hope in 3-4 years he produces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 This is nothing like Washington. Snyder went and signed the "top" FAs year in and year out. Regardless of performance. If there was "A name ive heard of" he went and signed him regardless of position. Houston may not have a choice if he wants out. Also, Houston may throw the ball a lot but their QB's are Matt Schaub, Case Keenum and TJ Yates. not exactly top tier QB's. IMO The Bills are missing two key things on offense. A big physical WR who can go up and get it being one of them. If he is available, it would be a mistake for the Bills not to at least inquire about him. So waiting on more potential, and hope in 3-4 years he produces? He's not anywhere near the end of his contract. Houston totally has the choice and is in control. Regardless, from his own mouth: "I've always said this is where I wanted to be, so I don’t really have anything to say about that." Makes this thread pretty pointless and stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I know plenty. I think he is better then Bowe, for example, but all you ever hear is how good and amazing Bowe is. You hear about Marshall and Lloyd, santonio Holmes, many other guys. Andre johnson is the texans Eric moulds. He is among the best WRs on their teams and does things that stand out even with sub par qbs and in bad years. Here in buffalo we have sj13 who has had a string of good years now and gets a lot less respect then he should. He is better then his respect level, just like Johnson. If you doubt that, ask someone to name the top 5 WRs in the game today. Maybe even top 10. They'll forget about Johnson Who talks about how good Bowe is? I honestly dont' think anyone would list Bowe in the top 20 receivers in the game. Andre Johnson is better than Moulds ever was. I'm assuming you don't play fantasy football or ask this question of those that play fantasy football, not that it is the end all be all. He always ranked in the top 10 of receivers. He also is generally ranked in the top 30 of ALL skill players. This with him being older and some injury concerns. so on pace for 1,500 yards and close/over 100 receptions is now over the hill? got it. Your logic is extremly flawed, you bring in playmakers to make your team better. Johnson is a playmaker, and a massive WR, which the Bills need. This is a very simple approach to building a team. So much more needs to be taken into consideration. Among them are age, injuries, and cost. All of these would point to it being a very risky move. He'll probably end up with the Pats and revive his career like Randy Moss did. See my point above. This is exactly the type of player the Pats* would trade away a la Richard Seymour. He is getting up there in years, has a couple more productive seasons left, and the price will be more than he is worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 This looks to be a good year for Tight Ends and we just drafted Woods.....lets keep our picks. I like what is happening here......we have a team put together that when the final pieces are in could be good together for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 Who talks about how good Bowe is? I honestly dont' think anyone would list Bowe in the top 20 receivers in the game. Andre Johnson is better than Moulds ever was. I'm assuming you don't play fantasy football or ask this question of those that play fantasy football, not that it is the end all be all. He always ranked in the top 10 of receivers. He also is generally ranked in the top 30 of ALL skill players. This with him being older and some injury concerns. This is a very simple approach to building a team. So much more needs to be taken into consideration. Among them are age, injuries, and cost. All of these would point to it being a very risky move. See my point above. This is exactly the type of player the Pats* would trade away a la Richard Seymour. He is getting up there in years, has a couple more productive seasons left, and the price will be more than he is worth. I've watched a couple of chiefs games and that's all you hear. On football sites and even here people talk about how good he is yet he has never had a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I've watched a couple of chiefs games and that's all you hear. On football sites and even here people talk about how good he is yet he has never had a QB. I must be watching different games. He is known as a garbage time player through his career and this year has been terrible. In 10 games he has 37 catches for 426 yards. From 2007 to 2013 he has 452 catches for 6154 yards. That is around Stevie Johnson numbers. As opposed to Andre Johnson who this year has doubled that production this year and has 72 catches for 966 yards. Since 2007 he has 579 catches for 8267 yards. That includes 2 injury hampered years. It is pretty safe to say Andre is twice as good as Bowe. He also hasn't had a good qb throwing him the ball much like Bowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I must be watching different games. He is known as a garbage time player through his career and this year has been terrible. In 10 games he has 37 catches for 426 yards. From 2007 to 2013 he has 452 catches for 6154 yards. That is around Stevie Johnson numbers. As opposed to Andre Johnson who this year has doubled that production this year and has 72 catches for 966 yards. Since 2007 he has 579 catches for 8267 yards. That includes 2 injury hampered years. It is pretty safe to say Andre is twice as good as Bowe. He also hasn't had a good qb throwing him the ball much like Bowe. i know schaub fell out of favor this year, but i think he has been a cut above what a lot of fans are now giving credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 i know schaub fell out of favor this year, but i think he has been a cut above what a lot of fans are now giving credit for. I had this convo with Edward's Arm as Schaub has had a high ypa stat that he loves. I think the greatness of Arian Foster and Andre Johnson contributed to that more than Schaub himself did. I have never viewed him as a strap the team on his back type of qb. T.J. Yates did well on this team during his best year. Foster cause a lot of teams to have to stack the box which opened up coverage on Johnson. Their play action was also phenomenal bc of these 2 threats. Schaub benefited quite a bit from these guys and to me is the statistical outlier for that stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 He's not anywhere near the end of his contract. Houston totally has the choice and is in control. Regardless, from his own mouth: "I've always said this is where I wanted to be, so I don’t really have anything to say about that." Makes this thread pretty pointless and stupid. What is he supposed to say? I hate it here, this team is terrible and I want out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I had this convo with Edward's Arm as Schaub has had a high ypa stat that he loves. I think the greatness of Arian Foster and Andre Johnson contributed to that more than Schaub himself did. I have never viewed him as a strap the team on his back type of qb. T.J. Yates did well on this team during his best year. Foster cause a lot of teams to have to stack the box which opened up coverage on Johnson. Their play action was also phenomenal bc of these 2 threats. Schaub benefited quite a bit from these guys and to me is the statistical outlier for that stat. im not arguing hes great, but id chalk him up above thigpen, brody croyle, damon huard, tyler palko, brady quinn, and matt cassel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) This is a very simple approach to building a team. So much more needs to be taken into consideration. Among them are age, injuries, and cost. All of these would point to it being a very risky move. Tis why I said the Bills should inquire about him if he does become available. if the price is too high then no deal, but from past dealings picks seem to be worth more than players. 4th and a conditional 5th/6th Rd pick. Edited November 18, 2013 by CountDorkula Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 im not arguing hes great, but id chalk him up above thigpen, brody croyle, damon huard, tyler palko, brady quinn, and matt cassel. I put him about Matt Cassel level. Able to do good things with a good cast but not able to do it himself. The rest of that group you are certainly correct on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 (edited) I put him about Matt Cassel level. Able to do good things with a good cast but not able to do it himself. The rest of that group you are certainly correct on. and dont get me wrong, im not arguing that this is why johnson has better numbers than bowe either - just it gets casually tossed around recently that houston has had terrible qb play, and generally speaking i think its been better that flat out bad the last few years even if it hasnt been elite. im not putting him leaps and bounds above cassel, but i think hes in that very much average, 12-18 range if you are doing rankings for instance. like you said, not carrying a team but not the disastrous qb play some franchises have seen. (and even that is probably slightly colored by the poor start to this year, as i probably had him closer to 10 than 20 any time ive listed out qbs the last few years) Edited November 18, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 and dont get me wrong, im not arguing that this is why johnson has better numbers than bowe either - just it gets casually tossed around recently that houston has had terrible qb play, and generally speaking i think its been better that flat out bad the last few years even if it hasnt been elite. im not putting him leaps and bounds above cassel, but i think hes in that very much average, 12-18 range if you are doing rankings for instance. like you said, not carrying a team but not the disastrous qb play some franchises have seen. For sure he's certainly not Lewis, Tuel, Fitzpatrick bad (I'll stick up for Stevie there ) I just was never a fan.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxy312 Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 What is he supposed to say? I hate it here, this team is terrible and I want out. He doesn't have to say anything. He could have said "no comment", but instead chose to say that "he always said this is where he wanted to be". You're also conveniently ignoring his contract, which is a huge reason he won't be traded any time soon. No team is going to sign up for $7.5m, $10.5m, and $11.0m contract over the next 3 years for a 32 YO wide-out that's clearly not as good as what he was when he signed the contract 3 years ago. His best bet is doing exactly what he's doing. So all this idle speculation is really just a waste of time. He's not going anywhere; the front office is (smartly) standing pat with Johnson, Goodwin & Woods as starters. I'm done with this horrendous thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts