A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[CodeMonkey]

I would like to add that last week they played like a collection of screw ups. This week they played together as a team in all phases. I credit the coaching staff for this turnaround. In previous years they have mailed it in at this point in the season.

I think this week it was the Jets turn to play like screw ups along with the Bills playing much better. Geno was every bit as bad as Manuel was the week before, maybe even worse. And for the life of me I can't figure out why the Jets DBs were playing so far off the Bills WRs with the top 2 WRs out of the game. I saw some of Sexy Rexy's presser after and he basically said was if his DBs can't cover backup WRs any better than what they showed today he might have to use a cover-2 for the rest of the season. He cited the "jump ball" (Ryans words) touchdown that Manuel put up early in the game with particular disgust when talking about his DBs that game.

 

He also was asked about Dave and Busters and basically said no comment

I must admit to a little perverse joy watching Rexy squirm a little

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I don't understand your comments regarding his throws. This was a game where EJ's passes were on the money. He not only hit his receivers but his ball placement in general was impeccable. One example is he hit Chandler over the middle in stride that enabled him to gain yardage after the catch. If you factor in the erratic and forceful wind conditions for the game then you should give him additional credit for his marksmanship.

 

 

I need to see him consistently repeat his motion and stick those throws. Ftizpatrick had his good days also. There were days where he looked like a pro bowl QB......ask Terrell Suggs. Good NFL QB's can make the throws every week. Fitz couldn't do it, he was a very smart guy but still couldn't overcome an inability to harness his mechanics. Yeah, he never had a top grade arm like EJ so downfield command was always going to be an issue, but Fitz has a better arm than Petyon Manning does now. He just can't put the ball into tight spots like Manning. Will EJ do better with his mechanics than Fitz did with the help of David Lee? It remains to be seen but to this point, if we are still worrying about footwork then we are talking about a very unfinished product.

[thewildrabbit]

The fact that the Bills are still 4th in the league in rushing would indicate they can run block fairly well. The Jets were leading the league in rushing defense, and focused heavily on it yesterday believing Manuel could not beat them with the pass. They were wrong.

What is it with Bills fans and stats... lies, damned lies and statistics!

 

 

As if yesterdays stats & Spillers stats aren't enough for you...

 

 

"Can the Bills Run the Ball?

The whole Bills offensive line grades out at -23.9 with only one of them earning a non-red grade: Cordy Glenn (+0.1). Eric Wood and Erik Pears are the second worst graded players at their position in run blocking both at -10.4.

The running backs have to produce yards on their own given how the line is blocking and Fred Jackson is being the best at it averaging 2.62 yards after contact per attempt – 5th-highest in the league.

It’s still unclear how healthyC.J. Spiller is after playing less than 25 snaps in each of the last two games and he’s far from his numbers in 2012 when he averaged 3.58 yards after contact per attempt. This season he is averaging 1.89 which is the 25th-lowest number among running backs."

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/11/15/3tfo-jets-bills-week-11/

Edited November 18, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[thebandit27]

What is it with Bills fans and stats... lies, damned lies and statistics!

 

 

As if yesterdays stats & Spillers stats aren't enough for you...

 

 

"Can the Bills Run the Ball?

The whole Bills offensive line grades out at -23.9 with only one of them earning a non-red grade: Cordy Glenn (+0.1). Eric Wood and Erik Pears are the second worst graded players at their position in run blocking both at -10.4.

The running backs have to produce yards on their own given how the line is blocking and Fred Jackson is being the best at it averaging 2.62 yards after contact per attempt – 5th-highest in the league.

It’s still unclear how healthyC.J. Spiller is after playing less than 25 snaps in each of the last two games and he’s far from his numbers in 2012 when he averaged 3.58 yards after contact per attempt. This season he is averaging 1.89 which is the 25th-lowest number among running backs."

 

https://www.profootb...-bills-week-11/

 

And as I responded to this two days ago when you posted it: any grading system that has that evaluation of Eric Wood is severely, heavily, and possibly terminally flawed.

 

Go back and watch the Carolina, Baltimore, and KC games and key on Eric Wood...or go back and watch Summers' TD run from yesterday's game. Wood is a top 5 center in this league, even if the think tank over at PFF isn't able to support it with their analytics.

[YoloinOhio]

And as I responded to this two days ago when you posted it: any grading system that has that evaluation of Eric Wood is severely, heavily, and possibly terminally flawed.

 

Go back and watch the Carolina, Baltimore, and KC games and key on Eric Wood...or go back and watch Summers' TD run from yesterday's game. Wood is a top 5 center in this league, even if the think tank over at PFF isn't able to support it with their analytics.

I can't take PFF seriously either if they have Eric Wood in the red.

[dave mcbride]

And as I responded to this two days ago when you posted it: any grading system that has that evaluation of Eric Wood is severely, heavily, and possibly terminally flawed.

 

Go back and watch the Carolina, Baltimore, and KC games and key on Eric Wood...or go back and watch Summers' TD run from yesterday's game. Wood is a top 5 center in this league, even if the think tank over at PFF isn't able to support it with their analytics.

 

Disagree for one reason - the Jets d-line is THAT good. It is awesome. Wood was clearly overmatched in the run game yesterday. Most of the time, he's pretty good, of course.

Edited November 18, 2013 by dave mcbride

[thebandit27]

Disagree for one reason - the Jets d-line is THAT good. It is awesome. Wood was clearly overmatched in the run game yesterday. Most of the time, he's pretty good, of course.

 

The Jets' DL is indeed good, but Wood wasn't the guy that was over-matched. He actually did pretty well against Harrison most of the day. Legursky and Pears got beat up by Richardson and Wilkerson though...I'd call Wood vs. Harrison/Ellis a stale mate at worst.

 

I can't take PFF seriously either if they have Eric Wood in the red.

 

Not just in the red, the 2nd worst C in the game.

 

That's simply not a reliable rating system.

[dave mcbride]

The Jets' DL is indeed good, but Wood wasn't the guy that was over-matched. He actually did pretty well against Harrison most of the day. Legursky and Pears got beat up by Richardson and Wilkerson though...I'd call Wood vs. Harrison/Ellis a stale mate at worst.

 

I will confess to not watching Wood specifically. The middle of the o-line generally speaking looked craptastic on run plays from start to finish. They looked like they were utterly dominated to me. That doesn't mean that Wood was the major problem, however.

[thebandit27]

I will confess to not watching Wood specifically. The middle of the o-line generally speaking looked craptastic on run plays from start to finish. They looked like they were utterly dominated to me. That doesn't mean that Wood was the major problem, however.

 

I admit that yesterday's OL vs. DL was of particular interest to me, since Wilkerson and Richardson have gotten the better of basically every front they've faced this year. I also tend to key on Wood more often, because watching good center play has really become a joy for me the last 2 years.

 

I wouldn't say Wood was dominant the way he was against Lotuleilei, Ngata, or Poe earlier this year. I would say that he held his own and did his job most of the time; Legursky got steamrolled on basically every play. Not his fault IMO, he's not really a starting-caliber guard, and there's only so much you can expect going against Richardson. Pears and Urbik got manhandled by Wilkerson routinely...I'd like to see them both handle him better; not sure that's going to happen.

[eball]

I can't take PFF seriously either if they have Eric Wood in the red.

Not just in the red, the 2nd worst C in the game.

 

That's simply not a reliable rating system.

 

Wood did not have a good game yesterday, particularly run-blocking. I'm willing to bet he'd be the first guy to admit it. When the All-22 comes out later this week we'll get another look.

[JohnC]

I need to see him consistently repeat his motion and stick those throws. Ftizpatrick had his good days also. There were days where he looked like a pro bowl QB......ask Terrell Suggs. Good NFL QB's can make the throws every week. Fitz couldn't do it, he was a very smart guy but still couldn't overcome an inability to harness his mechanics. Yeah, he never had a top grade arm like EJ so downfield command was always going to be an issue, but Fitz has a better arm than Petyon Manning does now. He just can't put the ball into tight spots like Manning. Will EJ do better with his mechanics than Fitz did with the help of David Lee? It remains to be seen but to this point, if we are still worrying about footwork then we are talking about a very unfinished product.

 

After one very good game I'm not declaring him a finished product. How could I or anyone who is reasonable do so? He is a rookie qb who has had due to injuries limited playing time. I'm certainly not the best judge in critiquing one's passing form but from my layman's eye it seemed that he had good mechanics in this game compared to his other games.

 

With respect to comparing EJ to Fitz and their respective mechanics it is irrelevant. No matter how tight Fitz's mechanics were he had a fatal flaw that couldn't be overcome, at least as a starter: his limited arm strength. Manuel might be a good franchise qb while Fitz will never be a quality long term starter. If you don't have the tools you can't do the job.

Edited November 18, 2013 by JohnC

[dave mcbride]

I admit that yesterday's OL vs. DL was of particular interest to me, since Wilkerson and Richardson have gotten the better of basically every front they've faced this year. I also tend to key on Wood more often, because watching good center play has really become a joy for me the last 2 years.

 

I wouldn't say Wood was dominant the way he was against Lotuleilei, Ngata, or Poe earlier this year. I would say that he held his own and did his job most of the time; Legursky got steamrolled on basically every play. Not his fault IMO, he's not really a starting-caliber guard, and there's only so much you can expect going against Richardson. Pears and Urbik got manhandled by Wilkerson routinely...I'd like to see them both handle him better; not sure that's going to happen.

Thanks!

[Coach Tuesday]

After one very good game I'm not declaring him a finished product. How could I or anyone who is reasonable do so? He is a rookie qb who has had due to injuries limited playing time. I'm certainly not the best judge in critiquing one's passing form but from my layman's eye it seemed that he had good mechanics in this game compared to his other games.

 

With respect to comparing EJ to Fitz and their respective mechanics it is irrelevant. No matter how tight Fitz's mechanics were he had a fatal flaw that couldn't be overcome, at least as a starter: his limited arm strength. Manuel might be a good franchise qb while Fitz will never be a quality long term starter. If you don't have the tools you can't do the job.

 

His dropbacks were slower. That was one thing I did notice. It seemed to help his timing.

[JohnC]

His dropbacks were slower. That was one thing I did notice. It seemed to help his timing.

 

Excellent observation. It did seem that he was much more composed. He was decisive in going into the plays without rushing, as you noted. I think part of his problem in the Steeler game was due to the fact that he hadn't played in awhile.

[eball]

Excellent observation. It did seem that he was much more composed. He was decisive in going into the plays without rushing, as you noted. I think part of his problem in the Steeler game was due to the fact that he hadn't played in awhile.

 

I can see how the coaches were in a bit of a conundrum last week. They probably knew EJ would be rusty, and if you held a gun to their heads they'd probably agree Lewis would have given the Bills a better chance to win -- but then again, EJ needs the work and we saw what that game plus a full week of practice did for him in the way he handled himself yesterday. If EJ doesn't play in Pittsburgh, maybe he wouldn't have been as confident against the Jets. Who knows...but it's good to see such significant improvement in one week.

[Kemp]

Kiko is already one of the best Bills LBs in the history of the franchise. Him and Byrd are incredibly instinctual.

 

Still think Graham is a horror show who got lucky that the defender was not paying attention.

 

Funny, that if they get lucky they ciuld end up 9-7. More likely 7-9, but who knows?

 

At next year's draft, I am rooting for another good LB to create an excellent grouping. Might even prefer it to a big WR.

 

 

[Dan]

And as I responded to this two days ago when you posted it: any grading system that has that evaluation of Eric Wood is severely, heavily, and possibly terminally flawed.

 

Go back and watch the Carolina, Baltimore, and KC games and key on Eric Wood...or go back and watch Summers' TD run from yesterday's game. Wood is a top 5 center in this league, even if the think tank over at PFF isn't able to support it with their analytics.

I can't take PFF seriously either if they have Eric Wood in the red.

Excellent response. Someone takes time to watch each player specifically, league wide, grades them all out but because it doesn't agree with what you just know to be right, well then throw it all out. Brilliant.

[thebandit27]

Excellent response. Someone takes time to watch each player specifically, league wide, grades them all out but because it doesn't agree with what you just know to be right, well then throw it all out. Brilliant.

 

Thanks for the snarky response.

 

Ever take the time to think that it's possible that, just maybe, the person you're responding to may take the time to actually watch a good deal of the play around the league and do the same?

 

Nope, just fire off a response and assume the analytics of PFF are the only possible metric. Forget the fact that Neil Hornsby himself talks weekly about the limitations of their grading system--especially when it comes to offensive lineman. Forget the actual game footage that's out there to view. And for God's sake, don't read the posts you just quoted, actually take the time to go back and look at the game play, and form a reasoned opinion yourself. Just trust the numbers; they must be right.

 

Brilliant yourself.

 

EDIT: and just as a sidebar, the whole grading thing is wildly subjective anyway. Go pull up 10 different grading sites, and you'll get 10 different evaluations. Like, say, Football Outsiders, who rank the Bills run game 10th in the NFL in Adjusted Line Yards per carry when they run up the middle:

 

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

Pretty good considering that the team runs an astounding 71% of their carries up the middle (more than any other team in the NFL), and that they've faced 5 of the top 11 defenses in the NFL in yards-per-carry allowed (NYJ-1, Cle-3, Bal-5, Car-8, Cin-11).

 

See? Anyone can make their analytics say anything they want to...I trust my eyes.

Edited November 18, 2013 by thebandit27

[JohnC]

 

 

I can see how the coaches were in a bit of a conundrum last week. They probably knew EJ would be rusty, and if you held a gun to their heads they'd probably agree Lewis would have given the Bills a better chance to win -- but then again, EJ needs the work and we saw what that game plus a full week of practice did for him in the way he handled himself yesterday. If EJ doesn't play in Pittsburgh, maybe he wouldn't have been as confident against the Jets. Who knows...but it's good to see such significant improvement in one week.

 

Marrone was very candid on WGR prior to the Steeler game when he told the hosts that they shouldn't expect too much from EJ. EJ had the type of injury where he couldn't even practice. You can do an extensive amount of studying and tape work but unless you practice and play you won't return to form. Adjusting to the speed of the game just takes time.

[BADOLBILZ]

After one very good game I'm not declaring him a finished product. How could I or anyone who is reasonable do so? He is a rookie qb who has had due to injuries limited playing time. I'm certainly not the best judge in critiquing one's passing form but from my layman's eye it seemed that he had good mechanics in this game compared to his other games.

 

With respect to comparing EJ to Fitz and their respective mechanics it is irrelevant. No matter how tight Fitz's mechanics were he had a fatal flaw that couldn't be overcome, at least as a starter: his limited arm strength. Manuel might be a good franchise qb while Fitz will never be a quality long term starter. If you don't have the tools you can't do the job.

 

I said VERY unfinished product. Obviously, he isn't a finished product. Let's not pretend we haven't heard this excuse before about rushed drops and bad mechanics. Rob Johnson, JP, Trent, Fitz.....at one point these were considered as possible reasons that these guys sucked. I wasn't actively breaking down EJ's mechanics but I did watch him run the exact pass play to Chandler twice and hit it once and miss it badly another time. Both times Chandler was wide open and they should be easy NFL throws. I am just not impressed with how Manuel spins it to this point. There are times when he drops it in nicely and then there are times when he throws that grotesque fade pass he threw in Pittsburgh last week that Manute Bol couldn't have reached. Yesterday he hit some long throws but he was missing them badly earlier in the season. The ratio of good to bad games needs to be a whole lot higher than 1:1.