A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[Dan]

Thanks for the snarky response.

 

Ever take the time to think that it's possible that, just maybe, the person you're responding to may take the time to actually watch a good deal of the play around the league and do the same?

 

Nope, just fire off a response and assume the analytics of PFF are the only possible metric. Forget the fact that Neil Hornsby himself talks weekly about the limitations of their grading system--especially when it comes to offensive lineman. Forget the actual game footage that's out there to view. And for God's sake, don't read the posts you just quoted, actually take the time to go back and look at the game play, and form a reasoned opinion yourself. Just trust the numbers; they must be right.

 

Brilliant yourself.

 

EDIT: and just as a sidebar, the whole grading thing is wildly subjective anyway. Go pull up 10 different grading sites, and you'll get 10 different evaluations. Like, say, Football Outsiders, who rank the Bills run game 10th in the NFL in Adjusted Line Yards per carry when they run up the middle:

 

http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/ol

 

Pretty good considering that the team runs an astounding 71% of their carries up the middle (more than any other team in the NFL), and that they've faced 5 of the top 11 defenses in the NFL in yards-per-carry allowed (NYJ-1, Cle-3, Bal-5, Car-8, Cin-11).

 

See? Anyone can make their analytics say anything they want to...I trust my eyes.

Actually, I did read your response. And it didn't mention any competing analysis other than, it doesn't rank one of my favorite players where I think he belongs, ergo it sucks. Had you provided some insight to support your opinion, I'm sure I would have thought differently.

 

And, no, I don't have time to watch game film on all 32 centers in the league and rank their individual performance in relation to one another (note I said individual not team, as you cited). I watch the Bills games, fairly closely. So, yes, I think he's a pretty damn good center. Top 5? I'm not in a position to say; hence, I defer to someone that watches all 32 centers equally, like PFF.

 

Furthermore, I agree, all grading systems are and can be flawed. And fully support and often do question their validity. However, I usually base it on more than I how I feel after watching a game or 3. That's all my point was. If you question PFF's grading, then provide myself and others reading the board with something more substantial. I welcome that!

 

(I'll qualify this with: if you presented all sorts of factual good info 2 days ago in a separate thread, excellent. But, I'm not sure what that thread or discussion was about, based on this one.)

 

 

[Yard Monkey]

I know you tend to have a negative bias against the Bills, but Manuel was nowhere and I mean NOWHERE near as bad against the Stealers as Geno was against the Bills. He and the rest of the team might have been flat and lackluster but he was by no means a turnover machine and completely inept like Geno was.

[Bill from NYC]

I know you tend to have a negative bias against the Bills, but Manuel was nowhere and I mean NOWHERE near as bad against the Stealers as Geno was against the Bills. He and the rest of the team might have been flat and lackluster but he was by no means a turnover machine and completely inept like Geno was.

 

To whom are you speaking?

[MarkAF43]

Bill thanks for these. After every game I look forward to reading your thoughts. Many thanks!

[JohnC]

I need to see him consistently repeat his motion and stick those throws. Ftizpatrick had his good days also. There were days where he looked like a pro bowl QB......ask Terrell Suggs. Good NFL QB's can make the throws every week. Fitz couldn't do it, he was a very smart guy but still couldn't overcome an inability to harness his mechanics. Yeah, he never had a top grade arm like EJ so downfield command was always going to be an issue, but Fitz has a better arm than Petyon Manning does now. He just can't put the ball into tight spots like Manning. Will EJ do better with his mechanics than Fitz did with the help of David Lee? It remains to be seen but to this point, if we are still worrying about footwork then we are talking about a very unfinished product.

 

Your timetable for mechanical excellence is too quick. EJ is a work in progress. Smoothing out his mechanics to the point where it becomes a natural throwing motion will not fully happen this season. It is going to take at least an offseason and more of hard work before he has mastered the proper techniques of throwing.

 

The word "process" gets overused to the point that it becomes a meaningless cliche. But especially with the quarterback position developing competency takes time. At that position there are more failures than successes. Clearly, I'm not making any premature declarations on how he is going to turn out. Too much shouldn't be made out of one stellar performance from a rookie qb. But what I can say for sure is that in the Jets game he did show that he has the talent to be a legitimate franchise qb. Although I'm not foolish enough to offer any assurances about that. What I can say is that I am now more encouraged than not about his prospects.

Edited November 19, 2013 by JohnC

[thebandit27]

 

Actually, I did read your response. And it didn't mention any competing analysis other than, it doesn't rank one of my favorite players where I think he belongs, ergo it sucks. Had you provided some insight to support your opinion, I'm sure I would have thought differently.

 

And, no, I don't have time to watch game film on all 32 centers in the league and rank their individual performance in relation to one another (note I said individual not team, as you cited). I watch the Bills games, fairly closely. So, yes, I think he's a pretty damn good center. Top 5? I'm not in a position to say; hence, I defer to someone that watches all 32 centers equally, like PFF.

 

Furthermore, I agree, all grading systems are and can be flawed. And fully support and often do question their validity. However, I usually base it on more than I how I feel after watching a game or 3. That's all my point was. If you question PFF's grading, then provide myself and others reading the board with something more substantial. I welcome that!

 

(I'll qualify this with: if you presented all sorts of factual good info 2 days ago in a separate thread, excellent. But, I'm not sure what that thread or discussion was about, based on this one.)

 

If you're hoping for me to post cut ups from the All-22 that I've watched and break then down for you, then in sorry, you'll be disappointed. I don't have time to indulge folks with that kind of workmanship.

 

If you want to see what I mean about Wood, cue up game rewind and watch him play against Carolina (especially the 2nd half), Baltimore, and KC. Watch the job he did against Ngata; not only clearing him out but also driving through to the second level and workin Daryl Smith over time and again.

 

Now, for the record, I do have chances to pull game rewind of plenty of other teams, and yes, I do think Wood is a top 5 center. You can chalk my opinion of him up to routine fandom if you'd like, but that's simply you making a poor assumption. I have no need or desire to overstate he value of a Bills' player for argument's sake.

 

Please don't take my word for it regarding his value around the league. Just do a quick google search for Dan Jeremiah's podium awards series and read the OL version. He's a former NFL scout that polled coaches around the league to put together his series. Should give you an idea of how opposing coaches view the player.

 

Lastly, remember that you don't know all or even most of the people that post on this board. Many members, including myself, have been involved with the game in some level in the past. It's entirely possible that someone is speaking from a position of greater knowledge than you might otherwise assume.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Anyone care to compare how last year's 3 prize rookies are doing this year compared to their rookie seasons?

 

Have they gotten better?

 

Have they regressed?

 

What about Kaepernick who's in his 3rd year?

 

Anyone care to talk about Locker, Gabbert, or Ponder, all of whom were drafted more highly than EJ?

 

Who exactly are we supposed to be comparing EJ to?

 

Maybe some of the posters here should consider these questions.

[YoloinOhio]

Not sure if mentioned, but Peter King made a point to call this out in his 10 Things I Think I Think, Week 11on MMQB.com:

 

g. Great goal-line stop by Buffalo strong safety Aaron Williams to stop a Jets rushing TD when Jets-Bills was still a game.

[Rico]

If you're hoping for me to post cut ups from the All-22 that I've watched and break then down for you, then in sorry, you'll be disappointed. I don't have time to indulge folks with that kind of workmanship.

 

If you want to see what I mean about Wood, cue up game rewind and watch him play against Carolina (especially the 2nd half), Baltimore, and KC. Watch the job he did against Ngata; not only clearing him out but also driving through to the second level and workin Daryl Smith over time and again.

 

Now, for the record, I do have chances to pull game rewind of plenty of other teams, and yes, I do think Wood is a top 5 center. You can chalk my opinion of him up to routine fandom if you'd like, but that's simply you making a poor assumption. I have no need or desire to overstate he value of a Bills' player for argument's sake.

 

Please don't take my word for it regarding his value around the league. Just do a quick google search for Dan Jeremiah's podium awards series and read the OL version. He's a former NFL scout that polled coaches around the league to put together his series. Should give you an idea of how opposing coaches view the player.

 

Lastly, remember that you don't know all or even most of the people that post on this board. Many members, including myself, have been involved with the game in some level in the past. It's entirely possible that someone is speaking from a position of greater knowledge than you might otherwise assume.

Welcome back AKC!

[dave mcbride]

Welcome back AKC!

I won't believe it until I see a post about d-line equity!

[Dan]

If you're hoping for me to post cut ups from the All-22 that I've watched and break then down for you, then in sorry, you'll be disappointed. I don't have time to indulge folks with that kind of workmanship.

 

If you want to see what I mean about Wood, cue up game rewind and watch him play against Carolina (especially the 2nd half), Baltimore, and KC. Watch the job he did against Ngata; not only clearing him out but also driving through to the second level and workin Daryl Smith over time and again.

 

Now, for the record, I do have chances to pull game rewind of plenty of other teams, and yes, I do think Wood is a top 5 center. You can chalk my opinion of him up to routine fandom if you'd like, but that's simply you making a poor assumption. I have no need or desire to overstate he value of a Bills' player for argument's sake.

 

Please don't take my word for it regarding his value around the league. Just do a quick google search for Dan Jeremiah's podium awards series and read the OL version. He's a former NFL scout that polled coaches around the league to put together his series. Should give you an idea of how opposing coaches view the player.

 

Lastly, remember that you don't know all or even most of the people that post on this board. Many members, including myself, have been involved with the game in some level in the past. It's entirely possible that someone is speaking from a position of greater knowledge than you might otherwise assume.

Firstly, I don't assume anything about any poster, good or bad. I allow their posts posts to do the talking. I'm not making any assumptions about your knowledge or experience, as I'm sure you're not making any about mine. I simply made a comment regarding one of your posts in which you refuted another post that cited quantifiable information with nothing more than dismissal. Quite honestly, its not worth continuing, but fine you disagree with it because you've watched alot of film on Wood. But, without watching tha same footage of all 32 centers every week, I just find it hard to definitively call him one of the top 5 in the league based on how he plays alone and not comparing it to all other centers in the league.

[ganesh]

What could you possibly want EJ to do today besides what he did?

Question is: Can he be consistent across games.

 

Anyone care to compare how last year's 3 prize rookies are doing this year compared to their rookie seasons?

 

Have they gotten better?

 

Have they regressed?

 

What about Kaepernick who's in his 3rd year?

 

Anyone care to talk about Locker, Gabbert, or Ponder, all of whom were drafted more highly than EJ?

 

Who exactly are we supposed to be comparing EJ to?

 

Maybe some of the posters here should consider these questions.

 

I guess everyone wants to compare EJ to Luck and Wilson, the two success stories from last season.

 

I know you tend to have a negative bias against the Bills, but Manuel was nowhere and I mean NOWHERE near as bad against the Stealers as Geno was against the Bills. He and the rest of the team might have been flat and lackluster but he was by no means a turnover machine and completely inept like Geno was.

 

 

This is insane. Bill, while gets emotional with DBs and Spiller, is not a negative nancy!!!

[34-78-83]

Welcome back AKC!

No... Really?? (I love the post either way cuz it is soooo true.)

[Utah John]

OK I've seen enough. Sign Byrd when we're allowed to do so, after the season. He's just too good to let him walk. He's everything that Whitner was supposed to be, but a lot more and a lot better. I am really tired of looking around the league and seeing enough ex-Bill DBs playing for other teams, all of whom are better than the guys we kept.

[thewildrabbit]

To the individuals who were previously so adamant that this years O line was fine. That the O line graded so well that they wouldn't suffer the loss of LG Andy Levitre at all.

 

Continually stalking my every post in the off season when I would voice my concerns about the O line with such a condescending attitudes. All I say is, well done, and look again. Some individuals clearly don't know as much as they think they do, as Andy's replacement Colin Brown graded as the worst LG in the NFL after the first five weeks, with the exception of his backup. Since both players were cut from the roster after week five I'd have to say that O line wasn't fine at all, period!

 

 

38 rushes with a 1.8 YPC average gives me great pause for concern as the rookie QB was again forced to carry the offense in this game. The O line was one area that needed to be one of the strongest on the team to help support a rookie QB, and it hasn't been every game. This game the Bills were lucky that the rookie QB & defense played brilliantly.

 

Its not just about accumulating yards each week or at the end of the season. Its about winning games and being able to control the line of scrimmage, and clock by running when needing to do so. Counting on the QB to bail out the offense each game is exactly what got Chan Gailey and his predecessors fired.

[Agent 91]

To the individuals who were previously so adamant that this years O line was fine. That the O line graded so well that they wouldn't suffer the loss of LG Andy Levitre at all.

 

Continually stalking my every post in the off season when I would voice my concerns about the O line with such a condescending attitudes. All I say is, well done, and look again. Some individuals clearly don't know as much as they think they do, as Andy's replacement Colin Brown graded as the worst LG in the NFL after the first five weeks, with the exception of his backup. Since both players were cut from the roster after week five I'd have to say that O line wasn't fine at all, period!

 

 

38 rushes with a 1.8 YPC average gives me great pause for concern as the rookie QB was again forced to carry the offense in this game. The O line was one area that needed to be one of the strongest on the team to help support a rookie QB, and it hasn't been every game. This game the Bills were lucky that the rookie QB & defense played brilliantly.

 

Its not just about accumulating yards each week or at the end of the season. Its about winning games and being able to control the line of scrimmage, and clock by running when needing to do so. Counting on the QB to bail out the offense each game is exactly what got Chan Gailey and his predecessors fired.

 

You are mostly correct to me. I agree with everything. Except the notion that Levitres departure caused this. Not saying this is your thinking. I just think Marrone got too cute. He was supposed to be some sort of o-line guru. Obviously what he did in college at Syracuse isn't as easy to replicate in the pros. Honestly I'm not able to recite the available free agents prior to the season on the line. But we didn't make one move. We didn't even really try. Even if it meant getting a big time LT or and filling the guard position with Cordy. That's the maddening part. Is there a less racist Incognito out there lol? Seriously though if we are gonna be run first, we need maulers who will eat anything lined up across from them. That to me... is Marrones only true fail thus far this year.

[ganesh]

To the individuals who were previously so adamant that this years O line was fine. That the O line graded so well that they wouldn't suffer the loss of LG Andy Levitre at all.

 

Continually stalking my every post in the off season when I would voice my concerns about the O line with such a condescending attitudes. All I say is, well done, and look again. Some individuals clearly don't know as much as they think they do, as Andy's replacement Colin Brown graded as the worst LG in the NFL after the first five weeks, with the exception of his backup. Since both players were cut from the roster after week five I'd have to say that O line wasn't fine at all, period!

 

 

38 rushes with a 1.8 YPC average gives me great pause for concern as the rookie QB was again forced to carry the offense in this game. The O line was one area that needed to be one of the strongest on the team to help support a rookie QB, and it hasn't been every game. This game the Bills were lucky that the rookie QB & defense played brilliantly.

 

Its not just about accumulating yards each week or at the end of the season. Its about winning games and being able to control the line of scrimmage, and clock by running when needing to do so. Counting on the QB to bail out the offense each game is exactly what got Chan Gailey and his predecessors fired.

 

I don't think the OL is to blame completely for yesterday's dismal run game. Firstly, the JETS are #1 against the RUN. So it was going to be hard to run the football against that front seven. Secondly, they were stacking up the line with 8 in the box and daring the rooking QB to beat them....Manuel failed that test in week two and Passed with flying colors yesterday. Finally, our RBs are hurt badly. They are not finding the holes and getting into the secondary.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

I don't think the OL is to blame completely for yesterday's dismal run game. Firstly, the JETS are #1 against the RUN. So it was going to be hard to run the football against that front seven. Secondly, they were stacking up the line with 8 in the box and daring the rooking QB to beat them....Manuel failed that test in week two and Passed with flying colors yesterday. Finally, our RBs are hurt badly. They are not finding the holes and getting into the secondary.

 

I agree with the above, but FTL is also making quite a bit of sense.

 

There is no way to really know; I fully get this, but I think that if Levitre was on team this season, the Bills would have at least one more win, perhaps even two. I say this because there were SO many close games, and our qbs were SO young.

A few more sustained drives and more pass protection might have made a big difference.

One more win and the Bills playoffs hopes would be more than a glimmer. Two more wins and we would be right in the mix.

 

I was watching the LG from Miss. St (Jackson?). He looks like a monster but it will probably cost an early draft selection to grab him. But Levitre was also an early pick. In fact he cost the Bills 2 picks whereas they traded up to get him.

 

Either way, as a poster said above, I am going to be happy for 2 weeks!

[ganesh]

I agree with the above, but FTL is also making quite a bit of sense.

 

There is no way to really know; I fully get this, but I think that if Levitre was on team this season, the Bills would have at least one more win, perhaps even two. I say this because there were SO many close games, and our qbs were SO young.

A few more sustained drives and more pass protection might have made a big difference.

One more win and the Bills playoffs hopes would be more than a glimmer. Two more wins and we would be right in the mix.

 

I was watching the LG from Miss. St (Jackson?). He looks like a monster but it will probably cost an early draft selection to grab him. But Levitre was also an early pick. In fact he cost the Bills 2 picks whereas they traded up to get him.

 

Either way, as a poster said above, I am going to be happy for 2 weeks!

 

Bill,

 

There are many ways in which the Bills have lost games that they should have won this season...Case in point....Kansas City.....There was a 14 point swing at the Chiefs one yard line that pretty much sealed the fate of the game. Then go back to Cleveland....If Manuel does not get hurt, we win that game....Tuel was horrible in that game. or the game against the Bengals in which special teams stunk up the joint and gave up a 30 yard punt return to allow the bengals to kick the winning FG. The point is that the LG is not the only weak spot on this team and we have lost ball games due to miscues in so many other facets of the game.

[thebandit27]

Welcome back AKC!

 

I've been posting on this board for a long time, and it takes all of 10 seconds to click on a poster's name and see their joined date.

 

I'm not here masquerading as anyone other than a Bills fan.

 

Do your detective work elsewhere.