H2o Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 You see the articles about Peterson getting traded out of Minnesota, leaks of Roethlisberger wanting out of Pittsburgh (true or not), and I wonder if we should be of the same mindset with a couple of our own. I can think of two players, namely SJ13 and CJ. This could be a good opportunity to sell high and keep building towards the future. It may not be a popular move with the fanbase or a lot of posters, but I think all options should be explored. I do like Stevie Johnson a lot and appreciate the effort. I also appreciate his attitude towards the city of Buffalo and am one of maybe the few who got a kick out of his TD celebrations. He has been a solid team guy, but he is hurt more often than not and is nothing more than a #2 possession type WR. We seem to have hit on a couple of WR picks from this latest draft in Woods and Goodwin. Woods is another possession type WR, though I would say that he surely has better speed than Johnson. Goodwin is our fast, slot WR who can burn teams all over the field. Why not put Stevie out there this offseason and see if we could get a solid offer for him? We look like we will end up with a top 5 pick also which would put us in a good position to draft a WR like Mike Evans from Texas A&M. He looks to be one of those elite playmaker types with the size and speed to win matchups all over the field. He's not going to run a 4.38 in someone else's shoes like Megatron, but will be a solid 4.45 guy @ 6'5" and 225lbs. He is an excellent route runner, gets the ball at it's highest point, and uses his body to shield off defenders. With CJ Spiller, I think he is going to want more money than he is worth and would rather see us get a 1st in return for him than to just watch him walk away. If the Browns can get a 1st in return for Richardson we can get a 1st in return for Spiller. I also don't think Spiller is built to be a feature back in the NFL. He will never make it through a season without being hurt for a few games if the team he is on is expecting him to carry the load. He is explosive on the field, but I would rather us make the move for reasons stated. More than any of the other high profile positions in the NFL, you can find RB's all over the draft in various rounds. Fred seems to still have some tread on the tires, enough for us to bring in a mid round RB to split some carries with he and Choice. A guy like Bishop Sankey from Washington could be available in the 3rd and would be a nice pickup for us. He reminds me of Doug Martin from Tampa Bay. Another guy like we could target is Marion Grice from Arizona St. He would be a solid complete RB option in the 4th or 5th. He will not only run for 1000+ this season, but he also will have more than 50 catches for over 500 yards when it is all said and done. Make moves, load up on picks, and continue the rebuild. I like the guys that I am talking about trying to trade, but I am also realistic and try to look at this from all angles. We are not going to see that much of a dropoff on the field without these two guys. Not having Spiller on the field would have more of an impact than not having SJ because of the playmaking ability, but he hasn't been that great when on the field this season when the opportunity was there. Trading SJ would also free up 6 mill or so in cap room. I just don't see us getting Spiller to stay in the B-Lo and I don't see SJ as more than an injury prone #2.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 I would trade CJ in a heartbeat. It could be our mini Herschel Walker trade to some team who believes they are missing a dynamic game changer type of guy. I know CJ is a great talent but i just do not think he will be here after his contract ends and i also am not sold on him being the 20 touch a game back. If the Bills could get a couple picks for him i would be for it. I do like SJ and think he should be kept. I could see SJ and Woods turning into a great 1-2 wr tandem for some time to come.
filthymcnasty08 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 What "high" are we selling CJ on exactly?
Kirby Jackson Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) I think that the Richardson trade really hurts CJ's trade value. Teams must be looking at that and thinking do we we really want to trade a 1st for that risk? I always thought that CJ was a better player but at this point the Browns have 100% won that trade. Edited November 17, 2013 by Kirby Jackson
Webster Guy Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 The teams that give up picks for existing players are almost always teams that feel they're in contention and making a championship run NOW. Let's say that's about a dozen teams in the league. It's already implied that the remaining 20 or so teams not good enough to make a run will listen to any trade offers at any time for any of their players. There is no NFL GM that isn't listening to offers if someone has interest in one of their players. With that in mind, its a given that CJ, Stevie, Byrd and most everyone else on our team is up for trade. The way to get ahead is to take advantage of a team that is desperate to make a run but feels they're missing one piece and will overpay for someone (like the Jets might for Byrd for example) The way to lose on a trade is to try and shop one of your players and show you're desperate to get rid of them, like we did with Marshawn. And then of course you have to do something positive with the pick(s) you get. I disagree that Cleveland got the better of the Richardson trade, it can't be known until we see what they do with the free pick. If its a bust they just traded a good runner for nothing. I think the solution to Stevie is to consider him a bonus type guy- if he's healthy, great, but i'm assuming he won't be and I'm staffing accordingly. If you trade CJ you had better be getting enough for him to get a solid RB elsewhere because FJax isn't gonna be able to hold up for too much longer (sadly) I think the key trade guy is Byrd. We did fine without him and he has real trade value. That's the only Bill I see getting traded.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 And then of course you have to do something positive with the pick(s) you get. I disagree that Cleveland got the better of the Richardson trade, it can't be known until we see what they do with the free pick. If its a bust they just traded a good runner for nothing. So far they got a 1st (in the low 20's) for a guy that has 20, 2, & 22 yards rushing the last 3 weeks. He hasn't been able to beat out Donald Brown. I agree that it is not a done deal yet but at this point the Browns have clearly won that deal. They can even use that 1st to aquire something that will out produce what Richardson has given the Colts (again, so far).
Section242 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Trade your good players that's what smart teams do.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 You see the articles about Peterson getting traded out of Minnesota, leaks of Roethlisberger wanting out of Pittsburgh (true or not), and I wonder if we should be of the same mindset with a couple of our own. I can think of two players, namely SJ13 and CJ. This could be a good opportunity to sell high and keep building towards the future. It may not be a popular move with the fanbase or a lot of posters, but I think all options should be explored. I do like Stevie Johnson a lot and appreciate the effort. I also appreciate his attitude towards the city of Buffalo and am one of maybe the few who got a kick out of his TD celebrations. He has been a solid team guy, but he is hurt more often than not and is nothing more than a #2 possession type WR. We seem to have hit on a couple of WR picks from this latest draft in Woods and Goodwin. Woods is another possession type WR, though I would say that he surely has better speed than Johnson. Goodwin is our fast, slot WR who can burn teams all over the field. Why not put Stevie out there this offseason and see if we could get a solid offer for him? We look like we will end up with a top 5 pick also which would put us in a good position to draft a WR like Mike Evans from Texas A&M. He looks to be one of those elite playmaker types with the size and speed to win matchups all over the field. He's not going to run a 4.38 in someone else's shoes like Megatron, but will be a solid 4.45 guy @ 6'5" and 225lbs. He is an excellent route runner, gets the ball at it's highest point, and uses his body to shield off defenders. With CJ Spiller, I think he is going to want more money than he is worth and would rather see us get a 1st in return for him than to just watch him walk away. If the Browns can get a 1st in return for Richardson we can get a 1st in return for Spiller. I also don't think Spiller is built to be a feature back in the NFL. He will never make it through a season without being hurt for a few games if the team he is on is expecting him to carry the load. He is explosive on the field, but I would rather us make the move for reasons stated. More than any of the other high profile positions in the NFL, you can find RB's all over the draft in various rounds. Fred seems to still have some tread on the tires, enough for us to bring in a mid round RB to split some carries with he and Choice. A guy like Bishop Sankey from Washington could be available in the 3rd and would be a nice pickup for us. He reminds me of Doug Martin from Tampa Bay. Another guy like we could target is Marion Grice from Arizona St. He would be a solid complete RB option in the 4th or 5th. He will not only run for 1000+ this season, but he also will have more than 50 catches for over 500 yards when it is all said and done. Make moves, load up on picks, and continue the rebuild. I like the guys that I am talking about trying to trade, but I am also realistic and try to look at this from all angles. We are not going to see that much of a dropoff on the field without these two guys. Not having Spiller on the field would have more of an impact than not having SJ because of the playmaking ability, but he hasn't been that great when on the field this season when the opportunity was there. Trading SJ would also free up 6 mill or so in cap room. I just don't see us getting Spiller to stay in the B-Lo and I don't see SJ as more than an injury prone #2. I think SJ13 is a guy we should consider moving, but no way we should trade CJ. SJ13 is already on this roster...his name is Robert Woods. The ONLY thing SJ does well is run routes. Woods also runs good routes already and will only get better IMO. But Woods also has more potential to be more physical, faster, and better hands. SJ is always dinged up and seems to have chronic groin and hammy issues, not to mention has a long history of disappearing when it matters or flat out failing in big moments. CJ is NOT a guy we should trade. All this talk about him yet no one acknowledges 2 MAJOR factors for his dip in production this year. A) He has been injured 75% of the season with a high ankle sprain, about the worse type of injury for a RB to try and play on. He showed his toughness and played through it, but that prevented it from healing. Thats not an injury most NFL players couldn't play on, let alone a RB. B) Hacket - He has had to learn how to better utilize him and has shown signs of doing so the last 4 or 5 weeks. Bottom line...SJ is NOT a playmaker, he's a guy who makes his check in non pressure situations. CJ however IS a playmaker...he is a guy who can take over and dominate a game. SJ has never dominated a game...even this fabled game where he schooled Revis he did not even get 100 yards and he dropped the only catch that matter at the end of the game that literally lost us the game we should have won. Trade SJ, KEEP CJ
H2o Posted November 17, 2013 Author Posted November 17, 2013 Trade your good players that's what smart teams do. You don't read very well do you? It's not just a "trade your good players that's what smart teams do" post. I'm not going to explain it to you.
BobDVA Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Woods will be the #1 next year making SJ the #2, just as he should be, and is being paid as. Fredx is already the oldest running back in the league, seems he will not be younger next year. Unless you plan on stockpiling 5th and 6th round draft picks, there is no logic that dictates trading CJ or SJ. Trading partners are much easier to find on Madden than real life.
yungmack Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Here's what I read around here about Stevie: He's hurt all the time, he drops passes in key situations, he's not a #1 receiver. Let's say all that's true. Do you think the other teams around the league don't have the same "book" on him? So if they do, why would they trade a decent pick or player for such an "inferior" player? Looks like we're stuck with him, and I'm glad.
gobillsinytown Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 I'm not sure the Colts really even needed Richardson. It takes time for an RB and his O-line to gel, and obviously he's having problems getting in sync with them. And since the NFL is now clearly a passing league, the value of running backs is dropping. Back in the day, it was common for RB's to get 300+ carries in a season. I don't think the average guy can handle that many carries with the speed and strength of today's NFL defenses. So far the trade seems like a wash. The Browns really didn't gain anything and neither did the Colts. The difference between the two teams is that the Colts have a franchise QB and the Browns don't
Max997 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 I don't see SJ having any real trade value and actually may even end up getting cut in the offseason bc they are certainly not getting their money's worth with him No reason to trade Spiller
Section242 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 You don't read very well do you? It's not just a "trade your good players that's what smart teams do" post. I'm not going to explain it to you. Trade Spiller and Johnson to get "value." When the value you get most likely won't be equal to their talents. Spiller wasn't very good today or much this year. Still the numbers aren't terrible. Johnson is a number 2 if the team has a superstar WR. Why not build around guys who can play? How many runningbacks are built to last 16 games? Fred Jackson hasn't been durable the last few seasons either.
boyst Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Trade your good players that's what smart teams do. Spiller. good player. Yeah...not seeing it. He is a great player when he plays great, anything else he is just awful. Him playing good is just average. I'd trade Spiller this offseason for a 2nd. I'd trade SJ13 for a 3rd and 5th - and much more hesitantly then I would CJ.
Section242 Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Spiller. good player. Yeah...not seeing it. He is a great player when he plays great, anything else he is just awful. Him playing good is just average. I'd trade Spiller this offseason for a 2nd. I'd trade SJ13 for a 3rd and 5th - and much more hesitantly then I would CJ. Why stop with them? Isn't Dareus going to be looking for a new deal soon?
boyst Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Why stop with them? Isn't Dareus going to be looking for a new deal soon? Dareus is one of the better DT's in the AFC, and as he continues to improve he could easily be a Pro Bowl DT in a year. SJ13 hasn't hit the Pro Bowl in his best season as a Bill. Spiller making the Pro Bowl was as a replacement.
Captain Hindsight Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Most teams in the NFL stockpile talent.
Leelee Phoenix Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Why stop with them? Isn't Dareus going to be looking for a new deal soon? I'd seriously look into trading Dareus, I think odds are he doesn't stay here I wouldn't sell Spiller now, his value is at a low. I don't think the Bills would even get a 2nd
boyst Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Most teams in the NFL stockpile talent. When we are building the talent we are then I do not see a reason to have a back like Spiller on this team. I do not want to trade him but I would trade any RB in this league because I do not see the value in the position like so many. Spiller is going to be a liability on this team unless he drastically turns it around. When Spiller is on the field he cannot block, he seldom performs well out of the backfield catching anything but a screen, and if he cannot run up field...just what the heck can this guy do? Yes, he is talented and yes it would be great to have him get better. Hell, I'd call Chan right now and bring him on as a highly paid consultant just to figure it out if I was in the front office, but trading away Spiller is an option for me if we are going to get a 2nd, or 1st. A 5th round RB can contribute as much next year as Spiller is likely to at this point - Choice, Jackson and 5th round in 2013? I am fine with that. With what we have in development Spiller is not going to fit the MO at this rate. Sorry. I have been pretty quite on Spiller since he came, especially last year when I still had my doubts...but I am done bein shy. I cannot continue. I cannot stand his play, I cannot stand his running form, I just do not like the way he plays and I do not like him. He is a mentally weak, all star talented RB with no heart and no drive. I'd seriously look into trading Dareus, I think odds are he doesn't stay here I wouldn't sell Spiller now, his value is at a low. I don't think the Bills would even get a 2nd Trading what might be the best young DT in the game...this is what Hindsight was talking about. This is why he is laughing - you don't do this. Dareus has been a factor and even if he doesn't stay I cannot see him walking easily - without getting tagged and without getting a truck backed up to his house first.
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