FireChan Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Yeah, did you see those circus catches from TY last night? His success is clearly all because of Luck. When Rogers ripped that ball out of the CB's hands, that was just Luck making him look better than he was. Makes sense. Edited January 12, 2014 by FireChan
section122 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Ugh. The simpletons are out in full force today. Let's make two separate threads. One for those who want to discuss how the bills should build a roster and the idea of risk v reward. Then the second can be for the intellectually challenged and impatient and see who screams the loudest or snarkiest about Da Rick being good or not. Well as a simpleton please explain to me (because I must be too dumb to grasp and nobody else has answered) how do you separate the conversation from the player? For every Jason Peters there is a Mike Jasper. Don't you think perhaps every player is rated on a risk reward scale? My Duke Williams and Kiko Alonso examples have been glossed over. This team has taken a stab in the very same draft on players with questionable backgrounds that sre still on the team. My original post last night was exactly to the bolded part. Now though all of the people who were screaming about what a mistake it was to cut him (looking at you Kirby) have now backpedaled to claim that this has nothing to do with Rogers. Making the argument that the Bills made the right decision because Rogers didn't have a catch or made a couple drops yesterday is like saying global warming doesn't exist because of the Polar Vortex. The conclusion may be right or wrong, the reasoning is significantly flawed. Except nobody knows why exactly he was cut. I, as a simpleton, won't debate global warming. Hell I haven't even debated whether or not cutting Rogers was a good thing. All I have done is point out that the overreacting crowd (60 catches and 7 tds a year!!!) has some crow to eat and that I am sure this week will be filled with overreaction the other way. Instead there has just been deflection about how dumb some of us posters are for not being able to grasp this conversation. Da'Drop! Seriously, 57 pages for a guy with less than 200 yards is embarrassing (and I'm proud to be part of it). The Rogers' supporters are deflecting today. Save the risk/ reward stuff. This was all about Rogers. He wasn't drafted for a reason, didn't work the way an UDFA should, & got cut. Stop blaming coaches for not bowing to a player who didn't give the effort. Hold him accountable. He is going to be in for a fight to even make the team next year. Simpleton He didn't sign with the Jags though. He plays for a team that makes the playoffs every year. That's the point. He was only activated after numerous injuries. He didn't contribute much save for one game to the fact that this team made the playoffs. I'm thinking that Luck/Manning and the division they play in have more to do with making the playoffs regularly than having Rogers on the team. The Bills took a shot on him and decided he wasn't worth spending the time on developing. Only time will tell if they are right but it is way to early to say that the Bills screwed the pooch on this one.
KD in CA Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 He plays on a team known for evaluating and finding talented WR's as well as getting the most out of some "lesser" guys. i.e. Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Garcon, Hilton etc. etc. On what planet are those 'lesser' guys? Two of them were first round picks! This is a team that was so desperate they signed Deion Branch last week. But don't let any facts get in the way of your crusade.
K-9 Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Da'Rick not getting many snaps last night, IMO, shows that the coaching staff and Luck don't trust him in a big game/at crunch time... for whatever reason, we don't know. I think he has made some nice catches/plays while he has been in previosu games, but it could be his grasp of the route running, how he practiced, etc. I think the Colts will continue to try to develop him because he has shown a lot more for them in actual games then he did for us in TC and PS. I have no idea what all took place between him and the Bills. I would like the Bills to develop talent in the WR corp past what we currently have. But I also am not sure we need to spend our #9 pick on a WR or TE. If you look at the top big WRs in the league, their teams either didn't make the playoffs or exited early. Megatron, Julio Jones (injured, didn't play all year), Larry Fitz, AJ Green, Josh Gordon, Dez Bryant. The Saints barely used their all-world TE yesterday. NE, SD, Indy, Carolina - all have smaller WRs playing. If you look at the Eagle, they have Riley Cooper as that 3rd down/possession WR and DeSean Jackson as the deep threat. They will get Maclin back, another speedster Avant is average. Maybe I am overthinking it, but maybe the Bills work on Moeaki as the TE with Chandler and go OL in the 1st? I think OL is super critical - RT and LG. Then MLB. Take a WR and TE later. It is a very deep WR draft. Just random thoughts that frankly probably should be in another thread. I just don't know if I want to sink a ton of $ into a WR when we have Woods who could emerge as a #1. I think we could maybe use Kaufman as Kirby mentioned in a David Nelson role. I don't know Yolo. He started the game seeing lots of snaps in their multiple WR sets. He played well into the second quarter. I think the Colts certainly trusted him to be out there at that time. What I don't understand is, barring injury, why was he removed until the last couple minutes of the game? What had the coaches seen to convince them he needed to be replaced? My bet is, it's the same things that Marrone and Co. saw last summer. GO BILLS!!!
YoloinOhio Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 I don't know Yolo. He started the game seeing lots of snaps in their multiple WR sets. He played well into the second quarter. I think the Colts certainly trusted him to be out there at that time. What I don't understand is, barring injury, why was he removed until the last couple minutes of the game? What had the coaches seen to convince them he needed to be replaced? My bet is, it's the same things that Marrone and Co. saw last summer. GO BILLS!!! I could not tell he was out there - sorry. More accurately, he wasn't targeted from what I could tell until the end. No clue, probably Luck just feels comfortable with certain guys.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) Well as a simpleton please explain to me (because I must be too dumb to grasp and nobody else has answered) how do you separate the conversation from the player? For every Jason Peters there is a Mike Jasper. Don't you think perhaps every player is rated on a risk reward scale? My Duke Williams and Kiko Alonso examples have been glossed over. This team has taken a stab in the very same draft on players with questionable backgrounds that sre still on the team. My original post last night was exactly to the bolded part. Now though all of the people who were screaming about what a mistake it was to cut him (looking at you Kirby) have now backpedaled to claim that this has nothing to do with Rogers. Except nobody knows why exactly he was cut. I, as a simpleton, won't debate global warming. Hell I haven't even debated whether or not cutting Rogers was a good thing. All I have done is point out that the overreacting crowd (60 catches and 7 tds a year!!!) has some crow to eat and that I am sure this week will be filled with overreaction the other way. Instead there has just been deflection about how dumb some of us posters are for not being able to grasp this conversation. A Simpleton He was only activated after numerous injuries. He didn't contribute much save for one game to the fact that this team made the playoffs. I'm thinking that Luck/Manning and the division they play in have more to do with making the playoffs regularly than having Rogers on the team. The Bills took a shot on him and decided he wasn't worth spending the time on developing. Only time will tell if they are right but it is way to early to say that the Bills screwed the pooch on this one. If you go back to any of the last 50 some odd pages you will hear me saying over and over that it is not the player. I said it was a mistake in August and believe that it is a mistake now. I would have said the same thing if it was Mike Jasper or Jason Peters. When you have a talented player with question marks you weigh the cost of keeping him vs. cutting him. As I have said 1,000 times or more I did not think that there was a viable NFL option ahead of him on the depth chart which made the decision an easy one. If he never catches another ball in the league it was the wrong decision because of the depth chart. I am in no way back pedaling on my stance. The conversation is about roster building, not the player. The player should have been on this roster because a perennial 6-10 team does not need to use the 6th WR spot on a low upside scrub. They might as well use that spot on someone who in all likelihood would give you at least as much production (he contributed more to his team than CH did to ours). If he happens to develop the gap between the two could be substantial. I am not sure what you are not agreeing with? I have asked the question a few times if the Bills are in a better place with Chris Hogan than they would have been with Da'Rick Rogers? Not one person, including yourself has made a case that they are. That is what opportunity cost is. In this case it was an easy decision IMO. It was easy at the time and it is easy as a MMQB. Edited January 12, 2014 by Kirby Jackson
FireChan Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) On what planet are those 'lesser' guys? Two of them were first round picks! This is a team that was so desperate they signed Deion Branch last week. But don't let any facts get in the way of your crusade. Peyton Manning/Andrew Luck couldn't have anything to do with that.... On this guy's planet. I guess it's easier to disparage and make snide comments when you only read 1/2 of the argument. But don't let facts get in the way of your hilarious quips. I wasn't calling the HoFer's lesser either. Just guys like Stokley and maybe Garcon. Edited January 13, 2014 by FireChan
Fingon Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 He plays on a team known for evaluating and finding talented WR's as well as getting the most out of some "lesser" guys. i.e. Harrison, Wayne, Stokley, Garcon, Hilton etc. etc. Yeah, I really doubt there are many (if any) guys left over from when those players were drafted. Irsay cleaned out all of Polian's guys.
YoloinOhio Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Yeah, I really doubt there are many (if any) guys left over from when those players were drafted. Irsay cleaned out all of Polian's guys. Irsay/Grigson cut a lot of the vets or let them leave in FA. This FO in Indy, btw, could not be further from the previous (Polian).
dubs Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Well as a simpleton please explain to me (because I must be too dumb to grasp and nobody else has answered) how do you separate the conversation from the player? For every Jason Peters there is a Mike Jasper. Don't you think perhaps every player is rated on a risk reward scale? My Duke Williams and Kiko Alonso examples have been glossed over. This team has taken a stab in the very same draft on players with questionable backgrounds that sre still on the team. My original post last night was exactly to the bolded part. Now though all of the people who were screaming about what a mistake it was to cut him (looking at you Kirby) have now backpedaled to claim that this has nothing to do Rogers Easy: 1) I said before the game my position was not dependant on his play this coming week. 2) The verdict on Rogers as a player in the NFL won't come for a while. Likely a couple years. 3) pointing out his catch in the wild card game was just an example of the talent he has. 4) A team desperate for legit playmakers on the outside has nothing to lose by keeping a guy who has that potential instead of a almost any other deep depth player on the team. 5) it's no risk because if he refuses to work hard or becomes trouble again, you cut him and lose nothing. TC (IMHO) is not enough time to make that assessment.
Prickly Pete Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) 5) it's no risk because if he refuses to work hard or becomes trouble again, you cut him and lose nothing. TC (IMHO) is not enough time to make that assessment. This is just silly. Most coaches would get rid of an undrafted player if his behavior (I have no idea if this was the case with Rogers) was challenging the coach's authority, or in any way undermining what the coach was trying to get across to the rest of the team. And none of this "a good coach works with these talented but troubled players" nonsense....they have plenty of other "troubled but talented" guys on the team. EVERY team has that going on. The Bills didn't shirk their responsibility by releasing him. Again, for all we know, Roger might have ASKED to be cut. The Bills just decided that he wasn't worth keeping right now. The Colts signed him, and he caught a few passes. If getting rid of Rogers IN ANY WAY helps establish Marrone's authority, it was a good decision! Edited January 14, 2014 by Marauder'sMicro
GG Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 If he proves that he can't play then he can't play. The point that I tried to make is that let's be the ones to figure out if he can play. You weren't risking someone that could play to do it. It's the same way that I felt about Mike Jasper. Are you sure you want to use Mike Jasper as the example? The guy on Carolina's PS, who on his 4th team in 3 years? Note the difference between Rogers and Jason Peters, who actually busted his hump to make the team, and was a ST standout before he earned a regular spot? But, if you are a true believer that Rogers isn't his own worst enemy, and Colts are better in talent evaluation than the Bills are, why was Griff Whalen on the field when the game was still competitive and Rogers on the bench? Didn't both come off the PS around the same time? Isn't Rogers the big beefy, speedy WR that Colts needed to move the chains? Looking at the college stats, it appears that Whalen is a near Hogan clone. What happened? Is Pagano clueless too?
K-9 Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Are you sure you want to use Mike Jasper as the example? The guy on Carolina's PS, who on his 4th team in 3 years? Note the difference between Rogers and Jason Peters, who actually busted his hump to make the team, and was a ST standout before he earned a regular spot? But, if you are a true believer that Rogers isn't his own worst enemy, and Colts are better in talent evaluation than the Bills are, why was Griff Whalen on the field when the game was still competitive and Rogers on the bench? Didn't both come off the PS around the same time? Isn't Rogers the big beefy, speedy WR that Colts needed to move the chains? Looking at the college stats, it appears that Whalen is a near Hogan clone. What happened? Is Pagano clueless too? I've been trying to get an answer to this very question. For whatever reason, Rogers was removed from the game in the second quarter and wasn't seen again until the game was out of hand. That doesn't reflect well at all. Couldn't agree more on Jason Peters. Contrary to Rogers, who resented playing special teams, he busted his ass on special teams and became a play maker; somebody teams had to actually account for on kickoffs and punts. He was a one-man wedge buster and blockers used to fear him. All the while honing his game on his way to becoming the All Pro tackle he is. GO BILLS!!! Edited January 13, 2014 by K-9
Fingon Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Irsay/Grigson cut a lot of the vets or let them leave in FA. This FO in Indy, btw, could not be further from the previous (Polian). Yeah, my point was that all the scouts who who helped draft all those great receivers aren't even in Indy anymore. The previous guy seemed to think that there was some magical ability that made the Colts good at drafting WRs.
Homey D. Clown Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 The 2nd coming of Jerry Rice.... err The bills Front office's biggest mistake in 2013... err.... no... I mean Da'Rick Rogers... yeah that's it, his stats from the game: 0 Catches, 0 yards. time to close thread, this nonsense has gone on long enough.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Simpletons abound who see Da'rick is Da'not all that. Name calling over 7th string wideout? Awesome.
YoloinOhio Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Yeah, my point was that all the scouts who who helped draft all those great receivers aren't even in Indy anymore. The previous guy seemed to think that there was some magical ability that made the Colts good at drafting WRs. Yep. While I think some of the same scouts are still there (retained by Grigson.... but the decision-makers aren't. Trust me, Peyton was actually highly involved in picking the WRs they were drafting once the scouting was done. He was/is a control freak, and they allowed him to be that.
FireChan Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Heroes are remembered but legends (of Da'Rick) never die.
artmalibu Posted January 14, 2014 Posted January 14, 2014 Next year does he make the Colts 53, practice squad, or........
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