prissythecat Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 OK, how about trading up to draft TJ Graham when TY Hilton (not to mention a couple pretty decent QBs) was still on the board? Would that qualify as a "miss"? All else equal (e.g. We also had an Andrew Luck equivalent ) then I would say TJ over TY is indeed a miss. But that's not the point of this thread. People are complaining about a UDFA here who got a shot to start because the rest of colts WR corps was depleted by injury. He hasn't exactly been tearing it up yet , it seems like we missed out on the next TO or Brandon Marshall.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Brandon Marshall would set himself on fire if he only had 1 catch in a big game.
Buffaloed in Pa Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Hmnn ...Maybe one of the reasons IKE HILLIARD got canned. Ike says this kid just doesn`t have it ?
KD in CA Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 See, the Graham over Hilton thread makes sense to me...this one is crackpottery at its finest. Folks in the know made it clear that Rodgers was on a right leash with Buffalo, and he didn't acquit himself well enough in training camp and the preseason by any account. Come on, don't you know a rookie coach trying to preach accountability and instill a renewed work ethic on a young team is supposed to only hold 52 guys to that standard and let one dirtbag UDFA play by his own rules because he had one good year in college 3 years ago?
NoSaint Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Hmnn ...Maybe one of the reasons IKE HILLIARD got canned. Ike says this kid just doesn`t have it ? Even more frustrating if this threads to be believed- Ike believed he had it, the team believed he had so much of it that they didn't even put him on the practice squad, but they didn't think they could get it out of him.
Rob's House Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I figured this thread would get some traffic after last night. I don't suppose any of us has enough info to make a fully informed assessment of Marrone's decision to cut Rogers, but there's certainly reason at this point to question his judgment. If Rogers truly was a malcontent showing up the coaches and undermining their authority, it's hard to argue with the decision. If, however, it was merely a case of immaturity, it's hard to defend the decision not to at least sign him to the practice squad (which if a little humbling was all he needed, playing second fiddle to Hogan might have been just as humbling as getting cut). The wisdom of this decision, or lack thereof, remains to be seen. If this time next year we're cracking cold beers waiting for the Bills game to start then I for one won't be questioning anything Marrone has done. If, on the other hand, we're talking about who to take with the number 9 pick and Da'Rick is coming of a pro-bowl season, then it's going to be real damn hard to defend Marrone.
section122 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 That's fair... But again...To my knowledge Rogers has not failed an NFL drug test, and unlike Lynch is in no danger of being suspended...He has not failed any drug test dating back to College as far as I can tell for about 2 years now...And I've tried to find evidence to the contrary... His HC at Tennessee Tech indicated that he would be watched closely while he was there..."Would I say Da'Rick has got things that he'll have to do more than just the regular players on the team? Yes," Brown said. "But I won't go into those. That's between he and I. That's going to do nothing but help him. If this was my son that had gotten into something that he regretted, then I would love him and be hard on him at the same time and say, 'Let's get through this together and get it corrected." Yeah I'm not saying he failed drug tests or was as bad as Lynch just that there heads weren't quite right and in it while here. It is just my own speculation but it is the conclusion I ended up at. There is a whole spectrum of not quite getting it from Titus young to just laziness and apathy during practice, meetings, etc... That could lead to someone getting cut. Hmnn ...Maybe one of the reasons IKE HILLIARD got canned. Ike says this kid just doesn`t have it ? I proposed this in the other thread. Pure conjecture but so is everything here.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 He had one nice catch, and one crucial drop, and that was the end of his night. We're talking about Da'Rick Rodgers, #16, not Hilton, #13, right?
prissythecat Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 No, but 1 or 2 plays a game can make the difference between wins and losses. How many close games to the Bills lose? How many close games that they won did Hogan make a key play?Da'Rick may have provided the Bills with a few plays and it wouldnt have been washed out by the plays that CH made. For example: maybe the Bills would have thrown a fade to Rogers vs. KC instead of a slant to Graham? That 14 point swing was the game. The Bills losses that you cite were more attributable to some of the following: 1) Bad QB play from our platoon of EJ, Thad, Tuel 2) Terribad special teams play on returns 3) A defense which just disappeared during key moments. Having a receiver miss out on a jump ball catch was not a cause of any of our losses .
Rob's House Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 He had one nice catch, and one crucial drop, and that was the end of his night. We're talking about Da'Rick Rodgers, #16, not Hilton, #13, right? I don't think that's a fair assessment of his performance. He had one very impressive game changing catch where he came down with the ball despite good coverage and another where the defender broke it up. It's not like he caught a 12 yard slant and had an easy pass bounce off his hands, which is what I'd infer from this post had I not watched the game. The Bills losses that you cite were more attributable to some of the following: 1) Bad QB play from our platoon of EJ, Thad, Tuel 2) Terribad special teams play on returns 3) A defense which just disappeared during key moments. Having a receiver miss out on a jump ball catch was not a cause of any of our losses . So big plays from receivers couldn't have been the difference in 1 or 2 of our 10 losses? And you're really going to put those losses on a defense that gave up the fewest yards per drive of any defense in the league this year? Seriously?
prissythecat Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Alex Marvez tweeted that Levitre is going to have hip surgery and that Buffal owas worried about his long term health when they let him go. Maybe we weren't crazy to avoid paying him all that money.,... I don't think that's a fair assessment of his performance. He had one very impressive game changing catch where he came down with the ball despite good coverage and another where the defender broke it up. It's not like he caught a 12 yard slant and had an easy pass bounce off his hands, which is what I'd infer from this post had I not watched the game. So big plays from receivers couldn't have been the difference in 1 or 2 of our 10 losses? And you're really going to put those losses on a defense that gave up the fewest yards per drive of any defense in the league this year? Seriously? How is fewest yards per drive a mark of a top defense ? That's a poor stat. Edited January 5, 2014 by prissythecat
Rob's House Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 How is fewest yards per drive a mark of a top defense ? That's a poor stat. What's a better one? I usually think points allowed is a better stat, but do you just take raw points scored by opposing teams or do you look at it within the context of the games? For example, if the team turns the ball over inside it's own 30 and the defense holds to a FG do you count those 3 points against the D? Or if the D makes a big play to turn the ball over or sack the QB for a loss moving them out of FG range do you subtract the points that would have been scored? Do tell.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I don't think that's a fair assessment of his performance. He had one very impressive game changing catch where he came down with the ball despite good coverage and another where the defender broke it up. It's not like he caught a 12 yard slant and had an easy pass bounce off his hands, which is what I'd infer from this post had I not watched the game. We're still talking about just 1 catch. The rest is potato-potahto. So big plays from receivers couldn't have been the difference in 1 or 2 of our 10 losses? And you're really going to put those losses on a defense that gave up the fewest yards per drive of any defense in the league this year? Seriously? Sure, they definitely could have been the difference. Just like SJ's catch to win the Carolina game, and Graham and Goodwin's big plays in the home blowout of the Jets. It all starts with QB, and the entire unit needs to be more consistent. But point is, they can do it.
Rob's House Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 We're still talking about just 1 catch. The rest is potato-potahto. We are, but not all catches are created equal. That's all I'm saying.
agardin Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I wasn't at any of the camp practices but I remember listening to Pat Kirwan on Sirius and he couldn't stop raving about him. Apparently he was making circus catches and at one point made a catch with his knees on top of a standing defender. That doesn't sound like a guy that was disinterested and lazy. One practice, maybe. We will never really know why he was cut. Could be attitude, could be Hogan and others had a great camp and the Bills choose to reward them at the expense of longer term potential. Who knows. I do know I would like to have Rodgers on my team today.
Wayne Cubed Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 What's a better one? I usually think points allowed is a better stat, but do you just take raw points scored by opposing teams or do you look at it within the context of the games? For example, if the team turns the ball over inside it's own 30 and the defense holds to a FG do you count those 3 points against the D? Or if the D makes a big play to turn the ball over or sack the QB for a loss moving them out of FG range do you subtract the points that would have been scored? Do tell. Points per drive and % of drives ending in score are a bit better. I posted these in another thread: Percentage of drives ending in offensive score: 32.5% (13th in the NFL) Average points scored per drive: 1.68 (12th in the NFL) And they also confirm the eye test of the top 5 defenses (these are top 5 for both): Seattle Carolina Cincinnati San Francisco Kansas City and Arizona is 6th for both New England is top 10 for both Not bad for the Bills who improved from 28th and 21st respectively from 2012. Historically speaking, teams that finish top 5 for both make the playoffs as well.
dubs Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) It's honestly not even a debate. This should be a one page thread. Cutting Rogers was a mistake. Period. End of story. You don't cut guys with that kind of talent without giving him some time to grow into it. I like Marrone and the FO, but they made a mistake there. Sucks, but what's done is done. Edited January 5, 2014 by dubs
thebandit27 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 It's honestly not even a debate. This should be a one page thread. Cutting Rogers was a mistake. Period. End of story. You don't cut guys with that kind of talent without giving him some time to grow into it. I like Marrone and the FO, but they made a mistake there. Sucks, but what's done is done. I think the point here is that the team was vocal about Rodgers needing to put forth his best effort; what kind of message does that send to the team when the new coach overlooks effort and performance in practice in favor of the raw talent of an UDFA?
dubs Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I think the point here is that the team was vocal about Rodgers needing to put forth his best effort; what kind of message does that send to the team when the new coach overlooks effort and performance in practice in favor of the raw talent of an UDFA? I don't think anything you do with the 6th WR or practice squad guy is going to send a message to veterans or highly touted rookies.
DrDawkinstein Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 It's honestly not even a debate. This should be a one page thread. Cutting Rogers was a mistake. Period. End of story. You don't cut guys with that kind of talent without giving him some time to grow into it. I like Marrone and the FO, but they made a mistake there. Sucks, but what's done is done. I agree with this post, but... I don't think anything you do with the 6th WR or practice squad guy is going to send a message to veterans or highly touted rookies. I can't agree here. Especially when a first year coach is trying to change a losing culture. It's not just about talent and potential, unfortunately. The team just isn't established enough to take chances on keeping slackers around. Yet.
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