boyst Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 This. All of this. Between Hilliard, Nelson, and Rogers (and - sorry - Graham), the WR situation was totally botched. With a rookie QB no less, who could've used some help. We've seen this all before. And Marrone could've sent the message he wanted by sitting the guy - cutting him was pointless and stupid. We have no need to question SJ13 on this roster heading in to 2013. Graham - A 2nd year player who caught 40+ last year with an inadequate sub-par QB that was unable to throw it deep, which is what we understood the value to be with Graham. His 2012 season consisting of just a few highlights, we had no reason to believe he was ready to become the #2 WR without a successful rotation to rely upon. Goodwin - A very small but potent speedster who would definitely contribute in his first year when he could play. Given his size and his inexperience we had absolutely no reason to believe he would be a factor to us this season and absolutely no reason to believe he would be any more successful then Graham. Woods - A potentially high ceiling and one day a #1, maybe. Heading in the season we were comfortable to succeed with who we had at WR but we neglected that we did not have an experienced QB at the helm. We also did not have a top tier blue chip at QB. Easley - A diamond in the rough. A player that will never come to fruition. A career that did not befit the player. What could have been? A career #3 WR playing 8 to 9 years in the league? Getting 40 catches a year and converting 20 of those from 3rd to 1st? We put our hopes in a balloon and let it fly only to remember we tied it to a brick. Hoccums shaver needs to be used here. We headed in to 2014 with only 1 WR on our roster not named SJ13 that had over 50 catches in their entire NFL career
prissythecat Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 I guess .. "troubled in college" is the non-nuanced mindset that annoys me. When inspected closely, he really didn't do much that should effect his ability to catch a pass or score a TD. He smoked a little weed (which is no worse than drinking beer). Marrone had all training camp and preseason to evaluate Rogers vs Hogan vs Graham. Marrone chose wrong. Hogan and Graham will be lucky to be in the NFL in 2 seasons. Rogers is already making a name for himself. It was a nice circus catch. And it was the only one that Rogers had the whole game. Wouldn't say that he is making a name for himself at this point . Nice to have a qb like Luck though .
KOKBILLS Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 We have no need to question SJ13 on this roster heading in to 2013. Graham - A 2nd year player who caught 40+ last year with an inadequate sub-par QB that was unable to throw it deep, which is what we understood the value to be with Graham. His 2012 season consisting of just a few highlights, we had no reason to believe he was ready to become the #2 WR without a successful rotation to rely upon. Goodwin - A very small but potent speedster who would definitely contribute in his first year when he could play. Given his size and his inexperience we had absolutely no reason to believe he would be a factor to us this season and absolutely no reason to believe he would be any more successful then Graham. Woods - A potentially high ceiling and one day a #1, maybe. Heading in the season we were comfortable to succeed with who we had at WR but we neglected that we did not have an experienced QB at the helm. We also did not have a top tier blue chip at QB. Easley - A diamond in the rough. A player that will never come to fruition. A career that did not befit the player. What could have been? A career #3 WR playing 8 to 9 years in the league? Getting 40 catches a year and converting 20 of those from 3rd to 1st? We put our hopes in a balloon and let it fly only to remember we tied it to a brick. Hoccums shaver needs to be used here. We headed in to 2014 with only 1 WR on our roster not named SJ13 that had over 50 catches in their entire NFL career I wonder too...Had we kept Rogers and he showed only the type of potential he has showed with Indy, would the Bills still be considering using the #9 overall pick on a WR? I think it's a legitimate question...Maybe we still would be...But maybe we would be looking more towards O-Line, or LB, instead...And even if we were to Draft a player like Mike Evans at #9 overall, how much better would we feel about SJ13, Woods, Goodwin, Rogers, and Evans as the core WR's for 2014? That's a pretty strong group...
drnykterstein Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 You're confusing him with Easley. But don't let that get in the way of your analysis. Both those WR's played very well that day. Yes Easley *also* looked great and made Tuel look like an all-pro.
NoSaint Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 It was a nice circus catch. And it was the only one that Rogers had the whole game. Wouldn't say that he is making a name for himself at this point . Nice to have a qb like Luck though . If he was on our roster we'd have half the board saying he's our #1 receiver, because we cut him half the board thinks it was totally meaningless. In 5 weeks active he has 15 catches like 240 yards and 2 tds. His two biggest plays were created by his talent not luck doing something amazing. He's playing decent ball, but really that's further down the story from why it was a mistake.
Coach Tuesday Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 We have no need to question SJ13 on this roster heading in to 2013. Graham - A 2nd year player who caught 40+ last year with an inadequate sub-par QB that was unable to throw it deep, which is what we understood the value to be with Graham. His 2012 season consisting of just a few highlights, we had no reason to believe he was ready to become the #2 WR without a successful rotation to rely upon. Goodwin - A very small but potent speedster who would definitely contribute in his first year when he could play. Given his size and his inexperience we had absolutely no reason to believe he would be a factor to us this season and absolutely no reason to believe he would be any more successful then Graham. Woods - A potentially high ceiling and one day a #1, maybe. Heading in the season we were comfortable to succeed with who we had at WR but we neglected that we did not have an experienced QB at the helm. We also did not have a top tier blue chip at QB. Easley - A diamond in the rough. A player that will never come to fruition. A career that did not befit the player. What could have been? A career #3 WR playing 8 to 9 years in the league? Getting 40 catches a year and converting 20 of those from 3rd to 1st? We put our hopes in a balloon and let it fly only to remember we tied it to a brick. Hoccums shaver needs to be used here. We headed in to 2014 with only 1 WR on our roster not named SJ13 that had over 50 catches in their entire NFL career Where you and I agree about Graham is that at most he should be a sub-package guy. He should be - at most - on the field for 20-30% of the plays on offense, as a field stretcher like Devery Henderson was for the Saints back in da day. Putting him in as a regular starter and throwing to him with the game on the line is colossally dumb. By contrast, David Nelson would have been a perfect X guy, he moves the sticks, gets open, blocks.
KOKBILLS Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Where you and I agree about Graham is that at most he should be a sub-package guy. He should be - at most - on the field for 20-30% of the plays on offense, as a field stretcher like Devery Henderson was for the Saints back in da day. Putting him in as a regular starter and throwing to him with the game on the line is colossally dumb. By contrast, David Nelson would have been a perfect X guy, he moves the sticks, gets open, blocks. I know we had a lengthy discussion on TBD about Nelson as well...And I was pretty strongly in the pro-Nelson camp...It's really hard to understand how Whaley/Nix/Marrone/Hackett felt our QB's could not benefit from having Nelson around...Of course it seems as if the Browns coaches did not feel Nelson could help them either...So...
boyst Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Where you and I agree about Graham is that at most he should be a sub-package guy. He should be - at most - on the field for 20-30% of the plays on offense, as a field stretcher like Devery Henderson was for the Saints back in da day. Putting him in as a regular starter and throwing to him with the game on the line is colossally dumb. By contrast, David Nelson would have been a perfect X guy, he moves the sticks, gets open, blocks. If you go back and look I think you'd be surprised because I have never said we need to see more of Graham. I have said:He had got the short end of the stick in his first year He is open a whole lot more then he is noticed by fans and more importantly the QB It is not his fault to have had some of the errors he has had He can't be relied on consistently but there is no reason not to try to get him more involved when he is in the game and it is early. It comes down to knowing how to use your weapons. In the first half there is no reason not to throw to any one who is open anywhere on the field. If it is 3rd and 12 and they are only 7 yards down field let them try to get the YAC. If it is in the second half throw to those who you know can catch the ball. If it is in the final minutes of the game and you need to score then you must throw to anyone who is on your team that is eligible. If that eligible player is an inadequate player then there is nothing more that player can do then his best. When this is the case it falls upon the coaching staff and the organization to improve upon this position or at the least utilize the best options in minimizing the risk of relying upon said player. In the very least his experience and ability must be taken in to consideration when making decisions which effect the team and the outcome of any game. TJ Graham is a limited player and sub par for a #2 position at this point of his career. He is mediocre at the #3 level. But he is consistent, stays healthy and provides solid effort. Is Goodwin better? We could debate this ad nauseam but it is not the point. The point of TJ Graham, Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Marcus Easley and the lackeys that were on the roster at WR not named Steve Johnson or Brad Smith had shown no ability to achieve success in the NFL. We compounded a risky situation and went all in when we changed our scheme 80 degrees to what we put on the field this year. Our coaching staff failed our football team on offense this year. Our offensive unit was unable to succeed due to a variety of reasons, all legitimate excuses but Rogers cannot be counted against them. Rogers chose his fate in Buffalo when he was here and most teams would have cut him, you can bet your butt they would have. Most teams were not as thin at WR and as talented as the Colts while holding the next Manning QB who will one day be in the HOF. Our coaching staff did not cut Rogers, he cut himself. But, our coaching staff did not believe in themselves and that is evidenced by the fact that they didn't try.
KOKBILLS Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Our coaching staff failed our football team on offense this year. Our offensive unit was unable to succeed due to a variety of reasons, all legitimate excuses but Rogers cannot be counted against them. Rogers chose his fate in Buffalo when he was here and most teams would have cut him, you can bet your butt they would have. Most teams were not as thin at WR and as talented as the Colts while holding the next Manning QB who will one day be in the HOF. Our coaching staff did not cut Rogers, he cut himself. But, our coaching staff did not believe in themselves and that is evidenced by the fact that they didn't try. I think that is a perfectly fair assessment... It's my opinion that...for better or worse (we'll see in the long run)...Marrone is 100% set in his ways...And that pretty much sealed Rogers fate early on...Marrone is not going to be flexible with a kid like Rogers...He said quite clearly his specific philosophy is to ignore who may be the better player down the road...And that may very well work to his advantage (though it's hard for me to see how)...We'll see though...
section122 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 But it will be. If he fails a drug test then he gets suspended. Fails again and the suspension is longer. It's Marshawn Lynch all over again. It was gonna be a lose-lose for the Bills no matter what. This is where I fall but for a different reason. It is Marshawn all over again. A talented guy that didn't get "it" in Buffalo. Once cut (or traded) it served as a bit of a wake up call. marshawn has admitted as much and I wouldn't be surprised if being cut by the lowly Bills did the same thing for Rogers.
KOKBILLS Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 This is where I fall but for a different reason. It is Marshawn all over again. A talented guy that didn't get "it" in Buffalo. Once cut (or traded) it served as a bit of a wake up call. marshawn has admitted as much and I wouldn't be surprised if being cut by the lowly Bills did the same thing for Rogers. That's fair... But again...To my knowledge Rogers has not failed an NFL drug test, and unlike Lynch is in no danger of being suspended...He has not failed any drug test dating back to College as far as I can tell for about 2 years now...And I've tried to find evidence to the contrary... His HC at Tennessee Tech indicated that he would be watched closely while he was there..."Would I say Da'Rick has got things that he'll have to do more than just the regular players on the team? Yes," Brown said. "But I won't go into those. That's between he and I. That's going to do nothing but help him. If this was my son that had gotten into something that he regretted, then I would love him and be hard on him at the same time and say, 'Let's get through this together and get it corrected."
26CornerBlitz Posted January 5, 2014 Author Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Da'one catch. Da'who cares. One more catch than any Bills' WR in a playoff game in since 1999. One more stupid decision at OBD. Shocker! Edited January 5, 2014 by 26CornerBlitz
prissythecat Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 One more catch than any Bills' WR in a playoff game in since 1999. One more stupid decision at OBD. Shocker! One or two catches a game of production is what determines the difference between playoff vs non-playoffs? If it was Ty Hilton that we had cut then that was indeed a miss.
Kirby Jackson Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 One or two catches a game of production is what determines the difference between playoff vs non-playoffs? If it was Ty Hilton that we had cut then that was indeed a miss. No, but 1 or 2 plays a game can make the difference between wins and losses. How many close games to the Bills lose? How many close games that they won did Hogan make a key play?Da'Rick may have provided the Bills with a few plays and it wouldnt have been washed out by the plays that CH made. For example: maybe the Bills would have thrown a fade to Rogers vs. KC instead of a slant to Graham? That 14 point swing was the game. No one is saying that he belongs in the HOF. It is simply that he had a way better chance to make a difference than the guys that they kept (specifically Hogan). If it don't work out or if he caused a problem you could have cut him and signed Hogan back. It was a free chance to look at a talented player who may have developed into exactly what we are looking for right now - a big, physical, fast WR.
mannc Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 One or two catches a game of production is what determines the difference between playoff vs non-playoffs? If it was Ty Hilton that we had cut then that was indeed a miss. OK, how about trading up to draft TJ Graham when TY Hilton (not to mention a couple pretty decent QBs) was still on the board? Would that qualify as a "miss"?
thebandit27 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Nearly 40 pages because the Bills cut an I drafted FA who caught one pass in a playoff game while down by 4 TDs. Really? Really. Unbelievable.
Maury Ballstein Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 (edited) Nearly 40 pages because the Bills cut an I drafted FA who caught one pass in a playoff game while down by 4 TDs. Really? Really. Unbelievable. Yup. Not 13 catch Ty Hilton. Did you catch all the character assassination of Marrone due to this ? Funny stuff. If Da'great one makes a catch in the Super Bowl this place is gonna burn ! Love it . Edited January 5, 2014 by Ryan L Billz
thebandit27 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Yup. Not 13 catch Ty Hilton. Did you catch all the character assassination of Marrone due to this ? Funny stuff. If Da'great one makes a catch in the Super Bowl this place is gonna burn ! Love it . See, the Graham over Hilton thread makes sense to me...this one is crackpottery at its finest. Folks in the know made it clear that Rodgers was on a right leash with Buffalo, and he didn't acquit himself well enough in training camp and the preseason by any account.
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