starrymessenger Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 From an organizational standpoint you are 100% right... But this was not an organization move...This was a Head Coach/OC move made by a couple rookie coaches who were thinking about how to round out their Special Teams roster instead of developing a WR with serious potential for a year or two...This is why I can't stand it when I hear a GM say these kind of moves are 100% coaches decisions...This was a perfect time for Whaley to step in and kindly convince Marrone that the better move, long-term, was keeping Rogers... During Training Camp, when it became clear that Rogers was on the bubble, I brought up the comparison to Dez Bryant...Rogers and Bryant are VERY comparable as pure athletes...Don't believe me? Here's their pre Draft measurable's... Height - Bryant and Rogers are both 6-2 Weight - Bryant was 225 at the Combine...Rogers 217 Speed - Rogers clocked 4.52 at Indy...Dez posted times from about 4.55-4.65 in his PW depending on the wind Vertical - Rogers 39.5"...Bryant 38" Bench - Rogers 10 reps...Bryant 14 reps At the Combine, Rogers was a "top performer" at his position in the Vertical Jump (tied for 1st), Broad Jump (tied for 2nd), 3 cone drill (4th), 20 (5th) and 60 yard shuttles... Both Rogers and Bryant had at least one outstanding College season in a big-time conference...And both also ran into trouble...Both had serious off-the-field concerns, though both were also considered to be decent kids... Anyone who follows NFL football knows Bryant is not necessarily the brightest bulb on the tree...Bryant struggled at times as a rookie despite the fact that, like Rogers, his physical skills were obvious to anyone who watched him for a couple minutes...He needed time...He needed a TON of reps...He needed to learn the NFL game...He needed a team with a TON of patience...The Cowboys had that patience...Now they have one of the best WR's in the game... And please understand that in no way am I predicting that Rogers will be the next Dez Bryant...But there is at least a chance he can come close...Especially if he starts getting some confidence...And when it comes down to the 5th or 6th WR on your team you don't roll the dice on that chance? Really? Really Doug squared? The Rogers move was an organizational failure...And a very early indicator...for me at least...that these guys (Brandon, Whaley, Marrone, and Hackett) are basically learning on the job... Like I said earlier in this thread...This was easily predictable...This organization always manages to get it wrong more than it gets it right...They can change out the names all they want...That fact remains the same...Cutting Rogers was a stupid organizational move...Period...End of story... Entirely agree. WRs do not all have Jerry Rice personalities. Many good ones are flakes and take a real toll on their coaches nerves and patience. Good coaches, like Mervin Lewis, work with players like this if they are talented. Marrone took the easy way out. It's either a rookie mistake on his part,or,as you imply, suggests something more concerning.
boyst Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Hmnn show us that crystal ball. Graham 5 more years. Hope she`s not with us. I am saying all 3 will be out of the league in 5 years. Not that they will last 5 years.
Saint Doug Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 So everyone on this thread that thought Hogan over Rogers was a good decision are gone? Exactly. There were an awful amount of very strong opinions on here. We can go back through the thread and call them out by names I guess. This should serve as a wake-up call for Marrone and the Bills. Again, how arrogant of them to cut Rogers. When Da'Rick Rogers realizes his vast potential, let me know. Looked pretty good today. We'll wait a couple more games, then we'll let you know.
Bills Fan888 Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 lol..we might actually have the smallest WR's in the entire NFL. If anyone is bored, I challenge you to find me a team that has a smaller average height at WR. How about the New England Patriots
boyst Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Exactly. There were an awful amount of very strong opinions on here. We can go back through the thread and call them out by names I guess. This should serve as a wake-up call for Marrone and the Bills. Again, how arrogant of them to cut Rogers. Whats the point of calling them out? We're all wrong on players from time to time. We're fanatics, not experts. Does my individual opinion matter for crap? We all have the opinions and it is all up to the individual. There were still a lot of people last year criticizing CJ Spiller last year with his great year and they got killed. Should they, too, come back and rub someones face in it? It's just no fun. I'd love to be wrong about CJ Spiller - I'd love for him to tear up the league the rest of his career blowing up defenders for great yards and remaining a Bill. I'd love to be right with all the young talent at WR that Graham and Goodwin will be great sub-ins for the #3 spot to keep stretching the field with a nice young number #4 who can fill in at #2 and keep the ball. It does sound great, that I wanted us to keep SJ13, Woods, Goodwin, Graham, Easley, and Brad Smith with Rogers on PS and Nelson on PUP. It's too late now and there is nothing to do about it. I'd love to see EJ throwing to Woods, Goodwin/Graham, SJ13 and Rogers/Nelson. You can go back and quote me there. Should I rub faces in it?
Saint Doug Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Whats the point of calling them out? We're all wrong on players from time to time. We're fanatics, not experts. Does my individual opinion matter for crap? We all have the opinions and it is all up to the individual. There were still a lot of people last year criticizing CJ Spiller last year with his great year and they got killed. Should they, too, come back and rub someones face in it? It's just no fun. I'd love to be wrong about CJ Spiller - I'd love for him to tear up the league the rest of his career blowing up defenders for great yards and remaining a Bill. I'd love to be right with all the young talent at WR that Graham and Goodwin will be great sub-ins for the #3 spot to keep stretching the field with a nice young number #4 who can fill in at #2 and keep the ball. It does sound great, that I wanted us to keep SJ13, Woods, Goodwin, Graham, Easley, and Brad Smith with Rogers on PS and Nelson on PUP. It's too late now and there is nothing to do about it. I'd love to see EJ throwing to Woods, Goodwin/Graham, SJ13 and Rogers/Nelson. You can go back and quote me there. Should I rub faces in it? No. But when a poster writes overly strong opinions, almost to the point of being unreasonable, they should be reminded if it. That's all.
boyst Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 No. But when a poster writes overly strong opinions, almost to the point of being unreasonable, they should be reminded if it. That's all. we are guilty of it. My overly strong opinion was usually focused on Bryan Scott, and boy did he get abused. A bad system, left out to dry, and ripped apart.
FireChan Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Whats the point of calling them out? We're all wrong on players from time to time. We're fanatics, not experts. Does my individual opinion matter for crap? We all have the opinions and it is all up to the individual. There were still a lot of people last year criticizing CJ Spiller last year with his great year and they got killed. Should they, too, come back and rub someones face in it? It's just no fun. I'd love to be wrong about CJ Spiller - I'd love for him to tear up the league the rest of his career blowing up defenders for great yards and remaining a Bill. I'd love to be right with all the young talent at WR that Graham and Goodwin will be great sub-ins for the #3 spot to keep stretching the field with a nice young number #4 who can fill in at #2 and keep the ball. It does sound great, that I wanted us to keep SJ13, Woods, Goodwin, Graham, Easley, and Brad Smith with Rogers on PS and Nelson on PUP. It's too late now and there is nothing to do about it. I'd love to see EJ throwing to Woods, Goodwin/Graham, SJ13 and Rogers/Nelson. You can go back and quote me there. Should I rub faces in it? "We're building a culture of accountability" Props to whoever said Da'Rick would have gone against the effort and dedication of the team. I can hardly stand all the effort we saw today.
IronyAbounds Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I thought Graham should have been gone long ago, but before we anoint Rodgers as the next Jerry Rice, consider that he was thrown to by Andrew Luck today. If Rodgers had EJ throwing to him he would have had plenty of thrown to but overthrown plays.
FireChan Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I thought Graham should have been gone long ago, but before we anoint Rodgers as the next Jerry Rice, consider that he was thrown to by Andrew Luck today. If Rodgers had EJ throwing to him he would have had plenty of thrown to but overthrown plays. The Colts have a Graham-clone with better WR skills in DHB and he sucks still. Good QB's make their players better, but they have to have some talent. Graham would do nothing in Indianapolis. Woods would produce very well there.
KOKBILLS Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I thought Graham should have been gone long ago, but before we anoint Rodgers as the next Jerry Rice, consider that he was thrown to by Andrew Luck today. If Rodgers had EJ throwing to him he would have had plenty of thrown to but overthrown plays. Who's anointing anyone? The only question for Bills fans is Hogan/Graham or Rogers? Who would you rather have? I'm leaving Easley out of the equation because he truly is a good ST's player...
NoSaint Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I thought Graham should have been gone long ago, but before we anoint Rodgers as the next Jerry Rice, consider that he was thrown to by Andrew Luck today. If Rodgers had EJ throwing to him he would have had plenty of thrown to but overthrown plays. And the irony of this being Rogers seemed to be the guy ej had deep ball chemistry with in all the spring camps.
IronyAbounds Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Who's anointing anyone? The only question for Bills fans is Hogan/Graham or Rogers? Who would you rather have? I'm leaving Easley out of the equation because he truly is a good ST's player... I thought I made my disdain for Graham clear. If the choice was Rogers or Graham, give me Rogers. Graham is pretty much useless and Rogers has more upside. Still, one game with Rogers with Indy and having Luck to throw to him doesn't mean he will be productive in the long run.
KOKBILLS Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I thought I made my disdain for Graham clear. If the choice was Rogers or Graham, give me Rogers. Graham is pretty much useless and Rogers has more upside. Still, one game with Rogers with Indy and having Luck to throw to him doesn't mean he will be productive in the long run. Fair enough... But again, no one is claiming Rogers is a lock to be great...That really has little to do with the equation...No question he'll be better with Luck throwing him the ball than he would be with EJ...But seeing the Bills bail on a kid with his potential when they are clearly a rebuilding organization...well...IMHO, that's what really matters here...
NastyNateSoldiers Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Anyone know where the 6´5 Streeter is??? That's the guy they kept over Rogers. This team is a joke and everyone is in on it, Brandon,Whaley, Marrone etc,etc. I am ashamed to be a Bills fan for the first time in my life. 30yrs watching this team and now I'm pretty much done. Pathetic. Btw, to those that compare Hogan to Welker. Why would u do that because there both white? I mean c'mon man. There is no comparison other then the skin tone. Speed, quickness, route running. Welker and Hogan are about as comparable as night & day. Hogan is the guy in practice that plays his heart out. While everyone else is just going threw the motions, trying to work on there crafts. He probably runs through walk-throughs. The guy really doesn't have any skill whatsoever. He is small, slow with no quickness. The Bills made a terrible mistake not keeping the kid with upside over the Hogan. I mean Hogan couldn't even earn a roster spot on the Dolphins last season and they were desperate for wides.
#34fan Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 From the beginning, I thought the TC WR cuts were too deep. I gave Marrone the benefit of the doubt on Da'Rick despite knowing the value of a a big, strong, target not afraid to go up and grab balls, and fight off defenders. Rogers was a character risk. I believe he still may be. However Marrone didn't even TRY to adjust the kid's attitude! Doug also quit on high-character, solid work-ethic kids like Nick Provo, and Brandon Kaufmann! Why wouldn't you want your rookie QB, to have reliable (Albeit slower) targets to build confidence with? At the time, cutting Rogers, Dickerson, Kaufmann, and Provo seemed really short-sighted. Now I know it was just plain dumb to cut all those guys for TJ Graham, and Chris Hogan. I like Doug Marrone. However, him and Hackett CLEARLY failed the talent asessment portion of this exam.
Kirby Jackson Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 Whats the point of calling them out? We're all wrong on players from time to time. We're fanatics, not experts. Does my individual opinion matter for crap? We all have the opinions and it is all up to the individual. There were still a lot of people last year criticizing CJ Spiller last year with his great year and they got killed. Should they, too, come back and rub someones face in it? It's just no fun. I'd love to be wrong about CJ Spiller - I'd love for him to tear up the league the rest of his career blowing up defenders for great yards and remaining a Bill. I'd love to be right with all the young talent at WR that Graham and Goodwin will be great sub-ins for the #3 spot to keep stretching the field with a nice young number #4 who can fill in at #2 and keep the ball. It does sound great, that I wanted us to keep SJ13, Woods, Goodwin, Graham, Easley, and Brad Smith with Rogers on PS and Nelson on PUP. It's too late now and there is nothing to do about it. I'd love to see EJ throwing to Woods, Goodwin/Graham, SJ13 and Rogers/Nelson. You can go back and quote me there. Should I rub faces in it? I would agree with you 9 times out of 10 but the Rogers situation is a bit of an exception. There was really no logical reason that warranted Hogan getting that spot over Rogers. If he flamed out, no big deal, you are 4-9. If he remained lazy, you cut your losses in the offseason. There are 5,000 guys just like Hogan out there that you can replace him with. The whole point argued throughout this thread is that there was no risk in keeping him (at least on the PS). When you have talent you need to give it a chance. It's really easy to find the hustling guy that will run through the wall. It's really hard to find a huge, productive WR that dominated the SEC.
Dorkington Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I trusted our decision making, as there seemed to be logic to it... Boy was I wrong.
Storm Front Posted December 9, 2013 Posted December 9, 2013 I now feel that Marrone is a complete idiot.
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