The Curse of Flutie?

[MDH]

The team looked so unorganized whenever Johnson was in there. He wasn't even as good as Tuel. Flutie would come into a game and all of a sudden they would look like a playoff team. The OL would settle down, the players would have a renewed confidence, and they would kick some butt.

 

In the first 15 weeks of the 1999 season (the ones Flutie started) the Bills offense put up more than 20 points only 6 times. This year's putrid offense has already done so 7 times. The 1999 Bills team won because the defense gave up a franchise low 229 points (14.3 ppg) not because of Flutie. In won despite him.

 

So let's stop with the revisionist history of how great Flutie was. If he was so great they never would have benched him in the playoffs. Nobody is benching a great QB who is moving his offense up and down the field like a machine.

 

Let's also not forget that in the previous year, as another poster has mentioned, when Flutie had the chance in the playoffs to lead his team to victory yet fumbled the game away at the end. Conversely, RJ led his team down and put up the go ahead points with a few seconds left. Yet somehow people are convinced that Flutie would have led them to victory? Based on what?

 

If that 1999 team had anybody worth a damn at QB they would have been Super Bowl favorites with that defense. Unfortunately they had Flutie and RJ.

Edited November 13, 2013 by MDH

[dubs]

In the first 15 weeks of the 1999 season (the ones Flutie started) the Bills offense put up more than 20 points only 6 times. This year's putrid offense has already done so 7 times. The 1999 Bills team won because the defense gave up a franchise low 229 points (14.3 ppg) not because of Flutie. In won despite him.

 

So let's stop with the revisionist history of how great Flutie was. If he was so great they never would have benched him in the playoffs. Nobody is benching a great QB who is moving his offense up and down the field like a machine.

 

Let's also not forget that in the previous year, as another poster has mentioned, when Flutie had the chance in the playoffs to lead his team to victory yet fumbled the game away at the end. Conversely, RJ led his team down and put up the go ahead points with a few seconds left. Yet somehow people are convinced that Flutie would have led them to victory? Based on what?

 

If that 1999 team had anybody worth a damn at QB they would have been Super Bowl favorites with that defense. Unfortunately they had Flutie and RJ.

 

Few things:

1) Comparing offenses in 1999 and 2013 is night and day. Offense today is more high powered and the game is geared much more to higher scoring games.

2) Again, (and again, and again), Flutie was not an elite QB (although he did make the pro bowl in 1999). He was good for the team. To use your logic, if RJ was so good, why wasn't he starting from Day 1?

3) Did you watch the Miami playoff game? Flutie played very well and on that play you are referencing, he had virtually no chance. The blitz came off the tackle and was in the backfield before DF even finished his drop back.

 

IMHO, the biggest issue is when the change occurred. If RJ came in halfway through the season or after the bye, then maybe it's not as much of a disruption to the team. On the final drive during the Titans game, RJ hit TWO passes. TWO. He got him in a position to win on that final drive and he deserves credit for that. What he didn't do was get them in a position to win the entire rest of the game. His mistakes directly led to 12 Tennessee points.

[tennesseeboy]

The Curse of Flutie started when he LOST the playoff game he started against the Dolphins in 1999. Oh yeah...he did lose that game. He lost it by fumbling the ball on the goal line. Funny how no one remembers. Kind of ruins the whole Flutie mania thing, I guess.

 

PTR

actually Eric Moulds dropping the sure touchdown bomb that Flutie threw on the first possession didn't help. Flutie played a very good game in that playoff. Phillips has already stated that not starting Flutie was a huge mistake....God has punished us for nearly fifteen years...it is time we all confessed, put on our hairshirts....and atoned for our sin.

[49er Fan]

Flutie being benched for the 1999 Tennessee playoff game is strange.

 

Rob Johnson appears to have been awarded the start based on his play against Indianapolis at home the previous week.

 

The Colts were 13-2 and had locked up the #2 seed in the playoffs two weeks before. At halftime they benched their starting QB (Peyton Manning).

 

I'm curious to know if Indy could have even challenged Jacksonville for the #1 playoff seed with a win at Buffalo. If not, then it was a meaningless game for the Colts.

 

Notwithstanding Johnson's stellar game vs. Indy, he was still a QB who had started only 8 NFL games with no playoff experience.

 

Flutie had 40 NFL starts under his belt, was 10-5 during the 1999 season, had NFL playoff experience, and was a seasoned veteran of the CFL for 8 years (1990-1997) - winning 6 MVPs, 3 championships, and would eventually be voted as the #1 CFL Player of All Time.

 

I agree with others who say Flutie's benching for Tennessee was unwarranted and unprecedented.

Edited November 13, 2013 by 49er Fan

[filthymcnasty08]

 

IMHO, the biggest issue is when the change occurred. If RJ came in halfway through the season or after the bye, then maybe it's not as much of a disruption to the team. On the final drive during the Titans game, RJ hit TWO passes. TWO. He got him in a position to win on that final drive and he deserves credit for that. What he didn't do was get them in a position to win the entire rest of the game. His mistakes directly led to 12 Tennessee points.

 

Well put. Antwain Smith's run to open the 2nd half bailed this team out. We were dead until that point. RJ had as close to ZERO to do with keeping that game alive for us as the starting QB could have.

[dave mcbride]

actually Eric Moulds dropping the sure touchdown bomb that Flutie threw on the first possession didn't help. Flutie played a very good game in that playoff. Phillips has already stated that not starting Flutie was a huge mistake....God has punished us for nearly fifteen years...it is time we all confessed, put on our hairshirts....and atoned for our sin.

 

Moulds didn't drop it; he fumbled it. It was a huge play.

[dave mcbride]

In the first 15 weeks of the 1999 season (the ones Flutie started) the Bills offense put up more than 20 points only 6 times. This year's putrid offense has already done so 7 times. The 1999 Bills team won because the defense gave up a franchise low 229 points (14.3 ppg) not because of Flutie. In won despite him.

 

So let's stop with the revisionist history of how great Flutie was. If he was so great they never would have benched him in the playoffs. Nobody is benching a great QB who is moving his offense up and down the field like a machine.

 

Let's also not forget that in the previous year, as another poster has mentioned, when Flutie had the chance in the playoffs to lead his team to victory yet fumbled the game away at the end. Conversely, RJ led his team down and put up the go ahead points with a few seconds left. Yet somehow people are convinced that Flutie would have led them to victory? Based on what?

 

If that 1999 team had anybody worth a damn at QB they would have been Super Bowl favorites with that defense. Unfortunately they had Flutie and RJ.

Except that the Bills were 11th in yards and 16th in points in 1999. In 1998, they were 6th in yards and 7th in points. This year, they're 16th in yards and 24th in points.

 

The blithe distortions of the Bills' and Flutie's record in those years has to stop. People need to accept the fact that Flutie was a pretty good QB who led an above average offense.

 

In the six games Flutie QB'ed in 2000, the Bills averaged 20.5 points and a sky-high 380 yards per game. They finished 9th in yards that year - their last top ten performance. In the games Johnson started, they averaged 322 yards per game. The Bills averaged 330 ypg in 1990, 391 (their best ever) in 1991, 368 in 1992, and 349 in 2002. They are averaging 333 this year.

Edited November 13, 2013 by dave mcbride

[Offside Number 76]

Oh, enough of this **** already. The guy wasn't great. He was just ok.

[4merper4mer]

Moulds didn't drop it; he fumbled it. It was a huge play.

 

That was the playoff game in the 1998 season. Flutie did play well.

 

In 1999 he sucked. Everything in MDH's post above about 1999 is 100% accurate. The offense, led by Flutie, was holding the overall team back. That is why the change was made. It wasn't made for fun or out of spite toward Flutie. It wasn't made because Johnson was Johnny Unitas. It was made because Flutie sucked. It may or may not have been a mistake but that does not change the fact that Flutie sucked for at least the entire second half of 1999.

 

I do not believe the Bills had any chance at all against the Titans with Flutie at the helm. Others say we will never know. The arguments they use are silly and sound exactly like those arguing for Tebow. "He just wins"...etc. A subset of those people think the Bills, who could not beat the Giants and Jets down the stretch, would have won the Super Bowl. This is ridiculous.

[K-9]

Moulds didn't drop it; he fumbled it. It was a huge play.

 

IIRC, he wasn't even hit, either. It just fell out of his arm.

 

Still bothers me.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Cynical]

Few things:

1) Comparing offenses in 1999 and 2013 is night and day. Offense today is more high powered and the game is geared much more to higher scoring games.

2) Again, (and again, and again), Flutie was not an elite QB (although he did make the pro bowl in 1999). He was good for the team. To use your logic, if RJ was so good, why wasn't he starting from Day 1?

 

Poster never claimed RJ was good.

More like DF was not nearly as good as his supporters make him out to be.

IMHO, I think he made it pretty clear he thought both QB's were bad.

 

3) Did you watch the Miami playoff game?

 

Yes.

 

Flutie played very well

 

If turning the ball over 3 times is your definition of "very well", then yes, he did. (1 INT, 2 lost fumbles)

 

But that was Flutie in a nutshell. For all the good things he did to help his team, he would do something bad that was equal or worse than what he did good.

That 15 yard scamper that kept a drive alive became worthless when he would later throw a pick in scoring range.

[dubs]

That was the playoff game in the 1998 season. Flutie did play well.

 

In 1999 he sucked. Everything in MDH's post above about 1999 is 100% accurate. The offense, led by Flutie, was holding the overall team back. That is why the change was made. It wasn't made for fun or out of spite toward Flutie. It wasn't made because Johnson was Johnny Unitas. It was made because Flutie sucked. It may or may not have been a mistake but that does not change the fact that Flutie sucked for at least the entire second half of 1999.

 

I do not believe the Bills had any chance at all against the Titans with Flutie at the helm. Others say we will never know. The arguments they use are silly and sound exactly like those arguing for Tebow. "He just wins"...etc. A subset of those people think the Bills, who could not beat the Giants and Jets down the stretch, would have won the Super Bowl. This is ridiculous.

 

This is just wrong on so many levels.

 

In 1998 Buffalo was 7-3 w/Flutie and 3-3 w/Johnson

In 1999 Buffalo was 10-5 w/Flutie and 1-1 w/Johnson

In 2000 Buffalo was 4-1 w/Flutie and 4-7 w/Johnson

 

In 1999 Buffalo's offense was above average as Mr. McBride stated above. Flutie was 10th in yards and 10th in TDs while not starting all 16 games.

 

At some point you have to just admit that while maybe not the guy you liked for whatever reason, Flutie did get the job done. Every measurable and eye test supports this.

[dave mcbride]

This is just wrong on so many levels.

 

In 1998 Buffalo was 7-3 w/Flutie and 3-3 w/Johnson

In 1999 Buffalo was 10-5 w/Flutie and 1-1 w/Johnson

In 2000 Buffalo was 4-1 w/Flutie and 4-7 w/Johnson

 

In 1999 Buffalo's offense was above average as Mr. McBride stated above. Flutie was 10th in yards and 10th in TDs while not starting all 16 games.

 

At some point you have to just admit that while maybe not the guy you liked for whatever reason, Flutie did get the job done. Every measurable and eye test supports this.

 

8-3 in 1998 with Flutie. Johnson played 2 plays before getting hurt in the Indy game and didn't throw a pass. Flutie played essentially the whole game.

 

IIRC, he wasn't even hit, either. It just fell out of his arm.

 

Still bothers me.

 

GO BILLS!!!

It still bothers me too!

[Rob's House]

 

 

In the first 15 weeks of the 1999 season (the ones Flutie started) the Bills offense put up more than 20 points only 6 times. This year's putrid offense has already done so 7 times. The 1999 Bills team won because the defense gave up a franchise low 229 points (14.3 ppg) not because of Flutie. In won despite him.

 

So let's stop with the revisionist history of how great Flutie was. If he was so great they never would have benched him in the playoffs. Nobody is benching a great QB who is moving his offense up and down the field like a machine.

 

Let's also not forget that in the previous year, as another poster has mentioned, when Flutie had the chance in the playoffs to lead his team to victory yet fumbled the game away at the end. Conversely, RJ led his team down and put up the go ahead points with a few seconds left. Yet somehow people are convinced that Flutie would have led them to victory? Based on what?

 

If that 1999 team had anybody worth a damn at QB they would have been Super Bowl favorites with that defense. Unfortunately they had Flutie and RJ.

 

This post is flawed in so many ways I don't know where to start. Should I start with the comparison of 1999 stats to 2013 stats? The complete ignorance of the effect ball control plays on defense? The false assertion that this offense put up 20+ 6 times? Completely discounting the value of turning would be sacks into short gains? The failure to consider last minute game winning drives? The fact that the defense that won all those games couldn't win dick w/ RJ? I could go on, but I doubt you'd ever look beyond the stat sheet, so why bother.

 

BTW, the only consolation I have from the way the last 13 years have played out is the knowledge that fans like you have to suffer through the Flutie curse.

[dubs]

Now that the Sabres have exorcised the Curse of Nolan, the Bills are up and need to exorcise the Curse of Flutie.

 

Stanley Cup - 2015

Super Bowl Victory - 2015

[thebandit27]

Here we go:

 

Doug Flutie's best statistical season as a pro (1999):

 

15 starts, 264/478 (55.2% passing), 3,171 yds, 19 TDs, 16 INTs, YPA 5.9, QB Rating 86.5

88 car, 476 yds, 1 TD

 

Best statistical season of another Bills' QB (scroll down for this QB's identity--but be sure to guess first):

 

16 starts, 268/429 (62.5% passing), 3,051 yds, 19 TDs, 14 INTs, YPA 7.1, QB Rating 84.9

38 car, 140 yds, 1 TD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JP Losman - 2006

[dubs]

Here we go:

 

Doug Flutie's best statistical season as a pro (1999):

 

15 starts, 264/478 (55.2% passing), 3,171 yds, 19 TDs, 16 INTs, YPA 5.9, QB Rating 86.5

88 car, 476 yds, 1 TD

 

Best statistical season of another Bills' QB (scroll down for this QB's identity--but be sure to guess first):

 

16 starts, 268/429 (62.5% passing), 3,051 yds, 19 TDs, 14 INTs, YPA 7.1, QB Rating 84.9

38 car, 140 yds, 1 TD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

JP Losman - 2006

 

Best statistical season of another quarterback.

16 starts, 207/368 (56.3% completion), 28 TDs, 20 INTs, 84.7 QBR. Guess who?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Terry Bradshaw. I think he might have been good.

 

 

Point is, you can't compare guys based solely on stats. Bottom line is the team won a lot of games with Flutie. They didn't with Rob Johnson or JP Losman.

[Orton's Arm]

I was looking around Pro-Football-Reference for some context of how historically bad the Bills last 13 years have been and finally came to the 1999 playoff game. I remember watching the game at the Harp in Boston, but didn't really recall how bad Rob Johnson played that game. I remember thinking that he put that team in a position to win and they actually should have won if not for the illegal forward pass.

 

Anyway, it struck me as surprising at how bad of a game RJ had. Johnson was 10-22 for 131 yards. No TDs or INTs. He was also sacked 6 times that led directly to 12 points. First he was sacked and fumbled, Tennessee recovered on the Bills 29. Tenn kicked a FG.

 

Then early in the 2nd quarter, RJ was sacked for a safety and on the ensuing free kick, Tennessee's Mason returned the kick 42 yards to the Bills 28. 5 plays later McNair scored on a one yard run.

 

We all know what's happened since that game, it's been a complete nightmare and looks like its going to continue for the foreseeable future. This begs the question, did Flutie curse us? Just to be safe, I think the organizations needs to publicly apologize to him.

 

I can't ever remember a situation where a QB started for a playoff team for the first 15 games, then gets told he's going to get a final week off to rest and gets benched in the playoff game. Sounds like Curse material.

 

I know, this is really supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but mostly wanted to pass along what was a minor revelation to me.

 

The two strip sacks you mentioned weren't Rob Johnson's fault. Both the Bills' starting OTs were playing hurt. (And weren't very good even when fully healthy.) Jevon Kearse (an elite DE) rushed untouched past one of the Bills' OTs to get a strip sack. The Bills responded by benching the injured OT and putting in his backup. Later, Kearse once again wasn't touched as he rushed toward Johnson. The result was another strip sack; and the Bills benching that other injured OT in favor of his backup.

 

The healthy backup OTs played better than the injured starters. The Titans' pass rushers got a little slower as the game progressed. As the game wore on, the Bills developed some semblance of pass protection. Rob Johnson had a pretty decent second half; but his first half was of course a disaster. Putting a sack-prone QB like that behind an OL which simply couldn't pass protect is an obvious recipe for disaster!

[dave mcbride]

 

 

The two strip sacks you mentioned weren't Rob Johnson's fault. Both the Bills' starting OTs were playing hurt. (And weren't very good even when fully healthy.) Jevon Kearse (an elite DE) rushed untouched past one of the Bills' OTs to get a strip sack. The Bills responded by benching the injured OT and putting in his backup. Later, Kearse once again wasn't touched as he rushed toward Johnson. The result was another strip sack; and the Bills benching that other injured OT in favor of his backup.

 

The healthy backup OTs played better than the injured starters. The Titans' pass rushers got a little slower as the game progressed. As the game wore on, the Bills developed some semblance of pass protection. Rob Johnson had a pretty decent second half; but his first half was of course a disaster. Putting a sack-prone QB like that behind an OL which simply couldn't pass protect is an obvious recipe for disaster!

The one and only Robert Hicks.

[JayD]

I hated Flutie back then, and can't stand fans bringing up this stupid curse BS

I hated Flutie then I hate him now. Their is no such thing as a curse. Stop being like the cry babies from Boston and all their Curse of the Bambino crap