The Curse of Flutie?

[dave mcbride]

If you think Flutie would have beaten the Titans you are sorely mistaken. It it makes you comfortable to believe that in an effort to make you feel better then go ahead.

 

The funny part about this is that so many people want to just hate Johnson for the sake of it. We were actually ahead and then the refs AND the Bills special teams botched the last play badly. If that didn't happen,this thread wouldn't be happening either.

 

The last five weeks of that season, excluding the almost meaningless game 16, we barely scraped by against some really crappy teams.

 

Lost to the 8-8 Jets

Beat the 8-8 Pats in a low scoring game at home

Lost at home to the 7-9 Giants

Barely hung on against the 6-10 Cardinals

Lost twice to the 8-8 Pats unless Vinatieri misses chip shots which he did.

 

And now we will go on the road and beat the Titans??????? Ok.

 

Flutie was taken out for the last game to rest his ridiculous arm. Johnson played well against the Colts and in all probability Ralph meddled because he saw some good passes from RJ that day....something he had not seen from Flutie for two months. Does that make it right? No. But it also doesn't mean Flutie would have beaten the Titans.

 

I think the Bills would have won that game because the Titans offense was completely shut down - held to 194 total yards. Flutie was a better QB than Johnson, and I think he could have put up 20 points or so on what was in truth an average defense. The one thing that defense had going for it was an ability to get to the QB, but Flutie tended to neutralize that threat.

 

Having said this, I think the Bills would have been blown out by Indy the next week. They had been annihilated in Indy in game one of that season, 31-14, and I don't think they matched up well against the Colts. I also think the Colts sort of dogged it in the final week of the season. They had secured a bye, and while the Jags hadn't secured home field advantage, the fact that they were playing a miserable Bengals team at home in the final game of the season suggested that Jax having home field advantage with a 14-2 record was a foregone conclusion.

Edited November 12, 2013 by dave mcbride

[enlightener]

If you think Flutie would have beaten the Titans you are sorely mistaken. It it makes you comfortable to believe that in an effort to make you feel better then go ahead.

 

The funny part about this is that so many people want to just hate Johnson for the sake of it. We were actually ahead and then the refs AND the Bills special teams botched the last play badly. If that didn't happen,this thread wouldn't be happening either.

 

The last five weeks of that season, excluding the almost meaningless game 16, we barely scraped by against some really crappy teams.

 

Lost to the 8-8 Jets

Beat the 8-8 Pats in a low scoring game at home

Lost at home to the 7-9 Giants

Barely hung on against the 6-10 Cardinals

Lost twice to the 8-8 Pats unless Vinatieri misses chip shots which he did.

 

And now we will go on the road and beat the Titans??????? Ok.

 

Flutie was taken out for the last game to rest his ridiculous arm. Johnson played well against the Colts and in all probability Ralph meddled because he saw some good passes from RJ that day....something he had not seen from Flutie for two months. Does that make it right? No. But it also doesn't mean Flutie would have beaten the Titans.

every game is different, flutie set records the year before in his playoff loss. How could he not of won when RJ cost us 12 points, did nothing offensively(98 total yards passing), and wow, had one 40 yard drive to kick a FG? The running game got the other points along with a great D. you obviously don't understand the overall picture. RJ held us back, had fluite even played average we would have killed the titans that game. even in those games you mention, fluite didn't have 98 yards passing and no points in any of them.

[reddogblitz]

I didn't happen to remember how bad RJ had played in that game. The years and emphasis on the forward lateral clouded that for me. In reality, Flutie likely doesn't make those same mistakes and we win that game.

 

Next time they show that game on NFL Network again (they will), watch it. In the 1st half RJ couldn't even get the snap from center down. He and the center were on the sidelines practicing while we were on defense. That's the stuff that happens in pre season, not playoffs. Everyone points to the Music City Forward Lateral as what lost that game for us. As the OP points out, in reality it was because RJ fumbled out of the back of the EZ for a safety. As often happens with a safety, the Titans and their fans were super pumped and they got the only TD they got in the game. 9 points. That's what costed us that game.

 

I believe that either Ralph has admitted he told Wade to start RJ, or Wade has said Ralph told him to do it. But either way, Wade should have put Flutie in at half time.

 

The whole start Rj thing though is the greatest Bills shot to the foot of many.

[KOKBILLS]

I was looking around Pro-Football-Reference for some context of how historically bad the Bills last 13 years have been and finally came to the 1999 playoff game. I remember watching the game at the Harp in Boston, but didn't really recall how bad Rob Johnson played that game. I remember thinking that he put that team in a position to win and they actually should have won if not for the illegal forward pass.

 

Anyway, it struck me as surprising at how bad of a game RJ had. Johnson was 10-22 for 131 yards. No TDs or INTs. He was also sacked 6 times that led directly to 12 points. First he was sacked and fumbled, Tennessee recovered on the Bills 29. Tenn kicked a FG.

 

Then early in the 2nd quarter, RJ was sacked for a safety and on the ensuing free kick, Tennessee's Mason returned the kick 42 yards to the Bills 28. 5 plays later McNair scored on a one yard run.

 

We all know what's happened since that game, it's been a complete nightmare and looks like its going to continue for the foreseeable future. This begs the question, did Flutie curse us? Just to be safe, I think the organizations needs to publicly apologize to him.

 

I can't ever remember a situation where a QB started for a playoff team for the first 15 games, then gets told he's going to get a final week off to rest and gets benched in the playoff game. Sounds like Curse material.

 

I know, this is really supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but mostly wanted to pass along what was a minor revelation to me.

 

Tongue-in-cheek or not I've been convinced for a couple of years now that there is a Flutie curse...I know it's ridiculous and all, but I believe it...I really do...

 

Until the Bills bring him back, have a Flutie Day (and at the Flutie Day I would recommend burning a Rob Johnson Jersey at midfield just to be safe), we'll never get out of this funk...

[dubs]

Tongue-in-cheek or not I've been convinced for a couple of years now that there is a Flutie curse...I know it's ridiculous and all, but I believe it...I really do...

 

Until the Bills bring him back, have a Flutie Day (and at the Flutie Day I would recommend burning a Rob Johnson Jersey at midfield just to be safe), we'll never get out of this funk...

 

haha…that's the kind of response I was looking for when I posted this. Hilarious and honestly I would definitely be at that game if we did that.

 

Flutie Day 2014. Ralph needs to apologize before it's too late.

[4merper4mer]

Next time they show that game on NFL Network again (they will), watch it. In the 1st half RJ couldn't even get the snap from center down. He and the center were on the sidelines practicing while we were on defense. That's the stuff that happens in pre season, not playoffs. Everyone points to the Music City Forward Lateral as what lost that game for us. As the OP points out, in reality it was because RJ fumbled out of the back of the EZ for a safety. As often happens with a safety, the Titans and their fans were super pumped and they got the only TD they got in the game. 9 points. That's what costed us that game.

 

I believe that either Ralph has admitted he told Wade to start RJ, or Wade has said Ralph told him to do it. But either way, Wade should have put Flutie in at half time.

 

The whole start Rj thing though is the greatest Bills shot to the foot of many.

 

Next time they show the last half of the Bills season on NFL network....they won't......make pretend to believe that a Flutie led team could have beaten any playoff team on the road.....they couldn't.

[RyanC883]

Some fans still carry around this idea that Flutie was a cancer of some kind. I've asked many many times for a single example of this or any evidence at all that Flutie was a negative influence on the team. I've never received an answer to this.

 

I'm not saying it isn't true. I don't know. I'm just asking. Is there any indication that other Bills players disliked Flutie (besides Rob Johnson)? From my point of view, as a fan, I saw Flute win a bunch of games. He reinvigorated a stale franchise and led the team to two consecutive playoff appearances.

 

I've never understood the hatred for Flutie that many fans have. Please, enlighten me.

 

Who cares if he was a negative influence on the team. The team won with him. As for who started that game, I'm not sure what the right call was, but Johnson was terrible. So in hindsight it was an awful call, but I cannot recall what the reasoning was at the time.

[4merper4mer]

Maybe Buffalo wins, maybe they don't. No one knows.

 

 

Maybe I could have hit the lotto 10 times in a row and maybe I couldn't. I didn't play so I will never know.

 

Before you start your mis-informed instinctive Flutie defense notice that I have not:

 

Blamed the loss the previous year on Flutie

Said Johnson played great against the Titans

Said the game Johnson played against Indy was meaningful

 

I simply remember watching game after game and watching the rest of the Bills roster bail Flutie out of his poor play the second half of 1999. He sucked and people rallying to his defense is not far from people saying we would have won that game if we had only kept Todd Collins.

[dave mcbride]

Maybe I could have hit the lotto 10 times in a row and maybe I couldn't. I didn't play so I will never know.

 

Before you start your mis-informed instinctive Flutie defense notice that I have not:

 

Blamed the loss the previous year on Flutie

Said Johnson played great against the Titans

Said the game Johnson played against Indy was meaningful

 

I simply remember watching game after game and watching the rest of the Bills roster bail Flutie out of his poor play the second half of 1999. He sucked and people rallying to his defense is not far from people saying we would have won that game if we had only kept Todd Collins.

 

Flutie's stats in the final half of the Bills 1999 season: 1430 yards passing, 58.7 percent completion rate, 9 TDs, 5 INTs, 7.3 ypa, and a QB rating of 86.1.

Edited November 12, 2013 by dave mcbride

[dubs]

Maybe I could have hit the lotto 10 times in a row and maybe I couldn't. I didn't play so I will never know.

 

Before you start your mis-informed instinctive Flutie defense notice that I have not:

 

Blamed the loss the previous year on Flutie

Said Johnson played great against the Titans

Said the game Johnson played against Indy was meaningful

 

I simply remember watching game after game and watching the rest of the Bills roster bail Flutie out of his poor play the second half of 1999. He sucked and people rallying to his defense is not far from people saying we would have won that game if we had only kept Todd Collins.

 

Misinformed huh? What's the informed position? Let me guess, "I watched the second half of the 1999 season and I KNOW what would have happened!!" You are not the only one who watched football those 7 games.

 

Give me a break. I appreciate your belief and I am not saying you are incorrect that the outcome would be the same. I am reasonable like that, I don't pretend I know what the future would hold or what would have happened.

 

I do think its pretty reasonable for most people to think that benching your starting QB prior to a playoff game creates a TON of problems both on and off the field. Most people that is except for omnipotent posters that know what the alternative scenario would have been.

Edited November 12, 2013 by dubs

[The Wiz]

I can only remember two plays in that game, the one were Johnson lost his shoe and of course the other.

[3rdand12]

I hated Flutie back then, and can't stand fans bringing up this stupid curse BS

well i agree.

But all that stems from the pioneering burial ground that was dug up and built over half assedly. Not to mention the Indians also buried nearby.

Oy !

 

Tongue-in-cheek or not I've been convinced for a couple of years now that there is a Flutie curse...I know it's ridiculous and all, but I believe it...I really do...

 

Until the Bills bring him back, have a Flutie Day (and at the Flutie Day I would recommend burning a Rob Johnson Jersey at midfield just to be safe), we'll never get out of this funk...

You are wise and worthy , KOKBILLS .

If it was only that simple. But its a hell of a start.

 

I can only remember two plays in that game, the one were Johnson lost his shoe and of course the other.

[4merper4mer]

Misinformed huh? What's the informed position? Let me guess, "I watched the second half of the 1999 season and I KNOW what would have happened!!" You are not the only one who watched football those 7 games.

 

Give me a break. I appreciate your belief and I am not saying you are incorrect that the outcome would be the same. I am reasonable like that, I don't pretend I know what the future would hold or what would have happened.

 

I do think its pretty reasonable for most people to think that benching your starting QB prior to a playoff game creates a TON of problems both on and off the field. Most people that is except for omnipotent posters that know what the alternative scenario would have been.

 

So what did you think of Flutie's play in 2H99?

[Smears]

Everytime I think of Rob Johnson, I rmember some interview he did where he commented," Where I come from, football isnt the first thing we think about" Or in other words he said that. Just to show how much his heart was in to the Bills.

[dubs]

 

 

So what did you think of Flutie's play in 2H99?

 

Like I said in many posts already. I think the Bills had a formula that was successful for them. It worked pretty well the previous couple years. That year they had the best defense in the nfl and an offense that played well enough to win 11 games. At that point in the year you don't change something that was working well especially at the most critical position.

 

In other words, I think his play was decent and fit better with the Bills.

[yungmack]

Like I said in many posts already. I think the Bills had a formula that was successful for them. It worked pretty well the previous couple years. That year they had the best defense in the nfl and an offense that played well enough to win 11 games. At that point in the year you don't change something that was working well especially at the most critical position.

 

In other words, I think his play was decent and fit better with the Bills.

Whether or not you hate Flutie or love him, or hate RJ or love him, this statement is all that needs to be said. It wasn't like Flutie was playing like Tuel that season so there was no reason to bench him in favor of a guy who was generally inept or fragile or panicked whenever he was in, especially in the key game of the season. It was just completely stupid.

 

BTW, can anyone cite another example like this by any other team in a similar situation?

[4merper4mer]

Whether or not you hate Flutie or love him, or hate RJ or love him, this statement is all that needs to be said. It wasn't like Flutie was playing like Tuel that season

 

 

 

Yes he was.

 

so there was no reason to bench him in favor of a guy who was generally inept or fragile or panicked whenever he was in, especially in the key game of the season. It was just completely stupid.

 

 

You still may be correct here. But the Bills would still have lost the game.

 

 

BTW, can anyone cite another example like this by any other team in a similar situation?

 

I can't.

[dubs]

 

 

Yes he was.

 

 

 

 

You still may be correct here. But the Bills would still have lost the game.

 

 

 

 

I can't.

 

Re: yes he was.

If you really think that you honestly have no credibility. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're trolling.

 

Re: they would have lost anyway

Must be nice to know the unknown. What's the DOW going to end at this year?

 

Re: I can't

Neither can anyone because it's monumentally stupid.

Edited November 13, 2013 by dubs

[Tcali]

and you know Ralph made the decision

[Coach55]

I get aggravated every time I read the Johnson/Flutie posts. The reality is the following - Flutie was a winner, regardless of the stats, he won football games. Winners find a way to win. Some of the best QBs of all time were not pretty, but they were winners (Montana, Bradshaw, now Russell Wilson, etc). In addition, he elevated the play of everyone around him. I honestly think that had Flutie not been exiled, he would have won a Super Bowl at some point in his career. He, IMO, is the 3rd best qb to dress in a Bills uniform.

Johnson, on the other hand, was a loser. He lost. He always found a way to lose. He is the most sacked QB in NFL history and had no business being an NFL qb.

I am hoping that EJ turns out to be a winner, but I am becoming ever more skeptical. And for people who keep comparing him to Cam Newton - Cam Newton puts up great stats especially in fantasy, but he too is not a winner.