jwhit34 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) The problem with rookie QBs is that they don't have a body of work to evaluate. If one of the top QBs have a game remotely like Manuel's on Sunday, it's shrugged off because there are many that are good. Since Manuel only has 5 games in his career, this is 20%+ of his body of work, which is not a big enough sample size. Teams have dud games, so I don't think they are going to end up in the top 5 or 6. However, if they do, there are 2 teams with 2 #1 picks this year, St. Louis (their own and Washington's) and Cleveland (their own and Indy's). Cleveland needs a QB and the Bills and Rams did the deal last year, so maybe both are options to trade down. Trading down worked well this year why not do it again? Draft needs: OL (RT or G), CB, TE I think between Johnson, Woods and Goodwin they have 3 good WRs if the right one fell I'd take but maybe not in 1st round. Edited November 12, 2013 by jwhit34
Kirby Jackson Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I've seen him play too much and not that impressed. Reminds me of ken Dorsey and matt lienert with JD Booty mixed in. Really that's who he reminds you of? I have seen a lot of him and he reminds me of young Favre or Archie Manning. He runs around and makes plays (and mistakes). he has shredded SEC defenses (including Alabama) for 2 years. His arm strength and athleticism is are far superior to those that you referenced. I am not sure if he will make a good pro but I think that he will. He may make too many mistakes but he is not Ken Dorsey. If you are looking for a Ken Dorsey clone AJ McCarronay fit that mold.
thewildrabbit Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 http://www.bucsnatio...first-for-a-day I would normally see this as a bright spot in ANOTHER crap season, but we have the same clowns picking players so even that is a downer. I would say tank the rest of the season for the #3-4 pick, but what would it matter. These clowns will screw it up. And you KNOW what is going to happen right? Manzel comes out and is #1 and there will still be 2-3 NFL ready type QB's (unlike EJ who had no business being picked in the first) and Buffalo will bypass them because they have EJ. And why not? isn't that how it normally goes for the Bills fans? I disagree! I couldn't be happier that Buddy Nix is only a consultant now, and Doug Whaley is calling the shots. My take is Colin Brown was a Nix find and he assured the team he could play, no proof... it just fits the mold. Whaley found Kiko! The likely defensive MVP or very close to it. He found WR Robert Woods who looked like a steal when healthy. EJ still needs to prove he was worth a #1 pick, and I think he can justify it with more playing experience. It shouldn't matter where the Bills draft anymore as I now have more faith in Whaley then I ever did in Buddy Nix. This statement coming from "Mr pessimistic" himself. Anyway, by the end of the season I think the Bills will be drafting 6th to 15th depending on if the Nathaniel "Buddy" Hackett can fix the offense. The biggest problem with the current state of the Buffalo Bills is the OC.JMO
atlbillsfan1975 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Big difference between Manziel and Farve or Manning is size. Manziel is a small guy who can not take those beating in the NFL. He gets banged up no win college. Not enough to be out of an entire game but nicked up. He also throws a lot of jump balls that his WR Evans bails him out on. My point is there is not one clear cut 'great qb' coming out this year like a LUCK. He was a once in about 15 years type of guy. Another P. Manning. I hope Hackett and Marrone open it up and use the next 6 games to evaluate EJ. See what he can and can not do. Whaley has to may this directive to his staff. Tell them we need to see if EJ can do it. I am not as concerned about winning games as i am about seeing what talent we have on the entire team. See where we are weak and what we need. It starts at QB. With EJ being out 5 weeks the FO needs to push the coaches to force EJ to make all the throws he can.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I think the Bills need to draft a top TE. Our team has been missing that and Chandler is not going to cut it. But by drafting a TE we could still keep Chandler as a lot of teams run a 2 TE set. I think having a great TE is a great asset for a young QB CBF
boyst Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Really that's who he reminds you of? I have seen a lot of him and he reminds me of young Favre or Archie Manning. He runs around and makes plays (and mistakes). he has shredded SEC defenses (including Alabama) for 2 years. His arm strength and athleticism is are far superior to those that you referenced. I am not sure if he will make a good pro but I think that he will. He may make too many mistakes but he is not Ken Dorsey. If you are looking for a Ken Dorsey clone AJ McCarronay fit that mold. ken Dorsey won a lot in college. Did almost everything right. Manzel is the same with a different game. Does almost everything right and wins a lot. Both were prone to mistakes that would cost them big when made but overall their game was very pollished
Kirby Jackson Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) ken Dorsey won a lot in college. Did almost everything right. Manzel is the same with a different game. Does almost everything right and wins a lot. Both were prone to mistakes that would cost them big when made but overall their game was very pollished I always viewed Dorsey as a game manager with tons of talent around him. Manziel is the polar opposite if that. He makes a million plays and a bunch of mistakes. His decision making is questionable, instincts off the charts, good arm strength (Dorsey had none), huge hands which compensates for his height (he is taller than Brees) and the ability to rise to the occasion. He may not stay healthy but he is an interesting prospect. He is 1 of those guys that scouts dont know how to classify. I bet he doesnt make it out of the top 10. Some team is going to roll the dice on what appears to be a boom or bust prospect. He has done things at the college level (in the SEC) that no one has ever done. Edited November 12, 2013 by Kirby Jackson
aristocrat Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I think the Bills need to draft a top TE. Our team has been missing that and Chandler is not going to cut it. But by drafting a TE we could still keep Chandler as a lot of teams run a 2 TE set. I think having a great TE is a great asset for a young QB CBF huge need alongside olb. If we have a shot at mosely or the kid from ucla this defense can become next level. I'd love us see if we have a shot at brandon pettigrew who the lions haven't extended yet. O line in the 2nd round and we have a team
Saint Doug Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 If EJ is so mature and has a great attitude, he should understand and accept the message of us drafting a 1st round QB. The worse that could happen is they both become starters and we deal one for another 1st rounder. Besides, I see the QB position as the only positional need on this team that would justify a top 5 pick. It would be a waste to spend a top 5 pick on a safety, LG, or TE. We are fairly set at WR and RB. Possibly could justify an OLB or DB, but nothing else besides that. Plus, our defense is young and is showing tons on promise (unlike EJ) so I don't see them needing top-5 pick help. O line in the 2nd round and we have a team I agree with that to some extent, but we will never a team until we have a QB. It appears QB's like EJ (RGIII, Kaepernick, Newton) tend to regress in their 2nd season (once opposing teams have a whole season if film), so unless there's a complete turn-around next season, EJ's not going to lead us anywhere next year.
mjt328 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 The problem with rookie QBs is that they don't have a body of work to evaluate. If one of the top QBs have a game remotely like Manuel's on Sunday, it's shrugged off because there are many that are good. Since Manuel only has 5 games in his career, this is 20%+ of his body of work, which is not a big enough sample size. The criticism about EJ Manuel isn't just a reaction from "bad games" against Pittsburgh or New York. Through his 6 games, people are seeing SERIOUS problems with his fundamental throwing ability. He's not just making stupid rookie mistakes. He's not just getting confused by defensive coordinators. He's standing in a clean pocket and throwing 5 yard passes into the dirt. He can't seem to throw a catchable ball anywhere near the sidelines. And he already seems scared to go downfield, for fear of making a mistake. Guys like Andrew Luck and RG3 get a bigger pass on bad games, because they have also shown (numerous times) that they are capable of greatness. So far, Manuel's claim to fame is drive against Carolina (where he dinked and dunked down the field, then got a pass interference call). The only other thing Bills fans have to go on is the mysterious "IT" factor that some say he's got.
BigBuff423 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I think the Bills need to draft a top TE. Our team has been missing that and Chandler is not going to cut it. But by drafting a TE we could still keep Chandler as a lot of teams run a 2 TE set. I think having a great TE is a great asset for a young QB CBF I don't disagree with the point of needing a pass catching, seam-stretching TE...but I hope you would not think we need a 1st round TE...and I'm not saying that is your posited solution...but look around the league...which 1st round TEs are blowing opponents away?? Julius Thomas and Jordan Cameron are both 4th round draft picks, in the same year I might add...Pettigrew is a glorified blocker and Eifert may do well, but not pass catching machine as of yet.....I think you can find a great TE in the 3rd round...the BILLS need one for sure, but have even more pressing needs in the first two rounds, maybe first three rounds...
McD Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 You would be absolutely amazed at how these perceived weaknesses vanish if you line up a Brees, Brady or Manning behind Center. The defense would improve immediately because it would not constantly be trotting out there in poor field position after 3 and outs. Those "midget" receivers would constantly be open, and the running game would terrorize defenses that were set up to stop the pass. Even the coach might appear to be competent. The importance of having a great QB cannot be overstated. ^^^^ THIS X 10!
Dorkington Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 Barely over half way through the season, and we're already having serious discussions about our draft pick. Life as a Bills fan.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I don't disagree with the point of needing a pass catching, seam-stretching TE...but I hope you would not think we need a 1st round TE...and I'm not saying that is your posited solution...but look around the league...which 1st round TEs are blowing opponents away?? Julius Thomas and Jordan Cameron are both 4th round draft picks, in the same year I might add...Pettigrew is a glorified blocker and Eifert may do well, but not pass catching machine as of yet.....I think you can find a great TE in the 3rd round...the BILLS need one for sure, but have even more pressing needs in the first two rounds, maybe first three rounds... I would like to see one no later than round 3 CBF
papazoid Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 if this team had Peyton Manning as QB, we would be 7-3 or better (right now 5-4 gets you in the playoffs). you keep drafting a QB in the first or second rounds until you get it right. I love EJ, but he ain't good enough. i'm not waiting another 2-3 years to see if EJ becomes a franchise QB.
Canadian Bills Fan Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I wouldnt mind taking AJ McCarron in the 3rd if he is there. CBF
BigBuff423 Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 (edited) if this team had Peyton Manning as QB, we would be 7-3 or better (right now 5-4 gets you in the playoffs). you keep drafting a QB in the first or second rounds until you get it right. I love EJ, but he ain't good enough. i'm not waiting another 2-3 years to see if EJ becomes a franchise QB. I think this team and franchise is sooooooo hungry for a Franchise QB who can be the face and rallying point in every game, such a thought process would be heralded in BILLS fandom...and right now, given the state of this team in relation to the league...I can't say I "hate" the idea...I don't "love" it either, but this a team in search of an identity and it has yet to know where to look for it... Edited November 12, 2013 by BigBuff423
Gordio Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 I've seen him play too much and not that impressed. Reminds me of ken Dorsey and matt lienert with JD Booty mixed in. I would like to know what does not impress you. Him throwing for over 400 yards against an Alabama defense? This guy is putting up insane numbers against the best defenses in the country week in & week out. What does he have to do to impress you?
QCity Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 if this team had Peyton Manning as QB, we would be 7-3 or better (right now 5-4 gets you in the playoffs). you keep drafting a QB in the first or second rounds until you get it right. I love EJ, but he ain't good enough. i'm not waiting another 2-3 years to see if EJ becomes a franchise QB. Peyton Manning??? If this team had Alex Smith we would be 6-4 or better right now. But I agree. You keep drafting a QB in the 1st until a clear franchise QB is on the roster. This is no time to worry about EJ's psyche regarding our confidence in him.
Gordio Posted November 12, 2013 Posted November 12, 2013 ken Dorsey won a lot in college. Did almost everything right. Manzel is the same with a different game. Does almost everything right and wins a lot. Both were prone to mistakes that would cost them big when made but overall their game was very pollished You comparing him to Dorsey just tells me you probably never watched manzel play. Those 2 QBs could not be more opposite.
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