John from Riverside Posted November 18, 2013 Author Posted November 18, 2013 Ok I've waited until the rabble has subsided a bit. I only got to watch the second half. This undoubtedly has an impact on my takeaways. My thoughts - the first two series I watched were a series of poor throws and frustrating check downs. This bummed me out. Then there was the two-play 80-some yard drive. Great ball to Marquise. The throws I keep looking for are the 10-20 yard completions (and NOT of the fade route/jump ball variety). These are the most important throws in the NFL imo. The throw to Chandler in the 4th was the best pass I saw EJ complete yesterday. He floated one to him earlier that was nearly a completion (during this one I actually yelled aloud "yes! he actually threw past the 1st down marker!!"...but then the ball hung up there and chandler got a bit goofy). We all hope EJ is the guy. When he starts hitting throws that aren't bombs/fades (man were we lucky on that first TD to TJ), and are more than 8ish yards, I'll be a very happy camper. I'm cautiously optimistic right now... It will come with time. I think for a QB like EJ who understands that you have a chance to win every game if you dont turn the ball over....that might be the last part of his game to develop because the middle of the field is where you have your greatest chance for a interception.....it would also help if he had more fast dependable targets in the middle of the field All in all....I saw what I wanted to see on Sunday in his progression. Lets keep in mind here that this was a Rex Ryan defense.
thebandit27 Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 Ok I've waited until the rabble has subsided a bit. I only got to watch the second half. This undoubtedly has an impact on my takeaways. My thoughts - the first two series I watched were a series of poor throws and frustrating check downs. This bummed me out. Then there was the two-play 80-some yard drive. Great ball to Marquise. The throws I keep looking for are the 10-20 yard completions (and NOT of the fade route/jump ball variety). These are the most important throws in the NFL imo. The throw to Chandler in the 4th was the best pass I saw EJ complete yesterday. He floated one to him earlier that was nearly a completion (during this one I actually yelled aloud "yes! he actually threw past the 1st down marker!!"...but then the ball hung up there and chandler got a bit goofy). We all hope EJ is the guy. When he starts hitting throws that aren't bombs/fades (man were we lucky on that first TD to TJ), and are more than 8ish yards, I'll be a very happy camper. I'm cautiously optimistic right now... You missed out on a few of the throws you were looking for earlier in the game...he had two beauties I can remember to Hogan in the first half that meet your criteria.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 Ok I've waited until the rabble has subsided a bit. I only got to watch the second half. This undoubtedly has an impact on my takeaways. My thoughts - the first two series I watched were a series of poor throws and frustrating check downs. This bummed me out. Then there was the two-play 80-some yard drive. Great ball to Marquise. The throws I keep looking for are the 10-20 yard completions (and NOT of the fade route/jump ball variety). These are the most important throws in the NFL imo. The throw to Chandler in the 4th was the best pass I saw EJ complete yesterday. He floated one to him earlier that was nearly a completion (during this one I actually yelled aloud "yes! he actually threw past the 1st down marker!!"...but then the ball hung up there and chandler got a bit goofy). We all hope EJ is the guy. When he starts hitting throws that aren't bombs/fades (man were we lucky on that first TD to TJ), and are more than 8ish yards, I'll be a very happy camper. I'm cautiously optimistic right now... This is a point well-taken. Time will tell if he can make those throws. Those are big-boy throws, and the ones that the top-10 QB's make.
John from Riverside Posted November 18, 2013 Author Posted November 18, 2013 Then he needs to be given big boy targets (as in a quality TE)
Boatdrinks Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 This is a point well-taken. Time will tell if he can make those throws. Those are big-boy throws, and the ones that the top-10 QB's make. Overrated. It's well known the throw that requires the most form a QB's arm is the deep out. I doubt the Bills or any NFL team would use a high pick on a guy that can't make every throw on the route tree. Saying one type of throw is more important than the other in a game is oversimplification. The game plan would call for routes that exploit what an OC feels are the best matchups. It could be that the Bills lack the type of WR that excels at winning these matchups. You must play to your strengths. Right now, EJM's strength is not going to be diagnosing NFL defenses and surgically picking them apart. That will take awhile. He's clearly having it hammered into him not to turn the ball over. Throws in the middle are risky. Coaching, game planning, and minimizing mistakes inherent in starting a rookie QB are all factors. Then the fact that the Bills lack size at WR and a dynamic TE threat, and the middle is not as enticing to an OC. They do have speed, and throws to the sideline take advantage of this with less risk of failing to read the safety, look him off etc.
NickelCity Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 All solid responses, thanks. (bandit - I did hear there were one or two such throws to Hogan in the first half) Specifically addressing a few points: minimizing turnovers - this is valid speculation on why EJ might be avoiding such throws. Coaching - Tuel and Lewis were more willing to make such throws, and maybe this ties into the above point (minimizing turnovers) - the coaches were more willing to let Tuel and Lewis gamble/fail. However, I feel like if the coaches are holding EJ back in that part of the field, perhaps they need to let the leash out a little bit. Coaching cont. (Hackett) - I get the impression that Hackett is scared of the middle of the field. The first game against the jets saw how many idiotic fade routes along the sidelines? Hackett is the biggest disappointment of the season for me so far. I've seen EJ make some great throws in the middle (preseason to Dickerson, one of the early games to Woods, there are others), and I'd like him to have the opportunity to make more.
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 Overrated. It's well known the throw that requires the most form a QB's arm is the deep out. I doubt the Bills or any NFL team would use a high pick on a guy that can't make every throw on the route tree. Saying one type of throw is more important than the other in a game is oversimplification. The game plan would call for routes that exploit what an OC feels are the best matchups. It could be that the Bills lack the type of WR that excels at winning these matchups. You must play to your strengths. Right now, EJM's strength is not going to be diagnosing NFL defenses and surgically picking them apart. That will take awhile. He's clearly having it hammered into him not to turn the ball over. Throws in the middle are risky. Coaching, game planning, and minimizing mistakes inherent in starting a rookie QB are all factors. Then the fact that the Bills lack size at WR and a dynamic TE threat, and the middle is not as enticing to an OC. They do have speed, and throws to the sideline take advantage of this with less risk of failing to read the safety, look him off etc. I think I mostly agree with you on this. I didn't mean to imply that EJ can't physically make all of the throws. But for him to progress, he's going to need to be able to read coverages and test the middle of the field. I am not suggesting that he needs to do that right now, but it is an important part of his development.
mjt328 Posted November 18, 2013 Posted November 18, 2013 It's a crusade. Some of us only care about the Bills winning, and though we will criticize the Bills when it is clear that they deserve it, we WANT them to be right. Not blind loyalty where poor decisions are praised or excused, but we hope they make the right decisions and win as a result. Whatever those decisions may be. Others are only concerned about being right, explaining away successes and positive developments, and saying "I told you so" when the Bills are wrong. In the search for a franchise QB, it is far more likely that ANY draft pick will be a disappointment or a failure than a franchise type player or even less likely a top 75 all time QB. I have my doubts about EJM, but I hope the Bills got it right and he defies the odds. If not, the Bills will move on to the next guy as an NFL team is in the business of winning games. When satisfaction is gleaned not from the success of the Bills QB, but from the success of a specific QB, or "my guy" then it is clearly a crusade to be correct. EJM still has a long ways to go, and may never achieve franchise status. No amount or crusading from fans will have any impact on this nor accelerate the Bills timetable on him. I hope they were correct. Their track record in the draft post Polian (by far the Bills best GM and one of the top NFL personnel men ever) leaves room for strong reservations. Time will tell... I like this post. It expresses my feelings very well. Before the draft, I honestly liked Geno Smith more than EJ Manuel. I probably would have been more upset at our selection of Manuel - but honestly I was just relieved we FINALLY took a QB and that we DIDN'T take Ryan Nassib. Yesterday's game was great - and I hope it's a sign of things to come. I'm a Bills fan more than anything. And despite my criticism of Manuel, all I want is for him to succeed (and for Geno to fall flat on his face).
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