Orton's Arm Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 I think it is a bad mix of the fan base running out of any patience that was left after 13 years + EJ being somewhat of a project (perhaps a worthwhile one) as an NFL QB. The Bills feel he is the real deal. Since I don't work as a GM or college talent evaluator for the NFL, I will assume they feel they can develop him into a franchise QB. The book on EJ is unique. I have liked what I have seen from him in many ways - it s hard for me to read the really one-sided bashing posts that say he will never amount to anything. No one knows that, so let's see what happens. I do think fans who are banking on the Bills taking another QB high in the the draft this year if EJ still doesn't look good by the end of the season are going to be disappointed. They will give him at least one more year. They may sign another veteran QB if a decent one becomes available. That's about all I can see on that front. They are committed to developing him within this system, and they should be. They (he, Marrone, Hackett) all came in together and they are invested in this working. > Since I don't work as a GM or > college talent evaluator for the > NFL, I will assume they feel they > can develop him into a franchise QB. Right. Because the Bills' string of uninterrupted success stories at the quarterback position are enough to inspire blind confidence in almost anyone. I will never forget the sheer brilliance of the Todd Collins selection; or the clever move to trade a third round pick for Billy Joe Hobart. Trading a first for Rob Johnson was a good call. The Bills also proved smarter than the rest of the league when they were the only ones to offer a first round pick for Drew Bledsoe. Using a first round pick on Losman was a great idea, even though he fit the profile for a standard-issue first round bust. With a track record like that, how could anyone possibly have any doubts at all about the Manuel selection? I mean, granted, the guy wasn't an accomplished pocket passer at the college level; and just about every other first round QB like that has gone on to be a bust. But if someone with a sterling track record like the Bills' front office says Manuel will be the exception to that rule, how could anyone possibly question their judgement?
Boatdrinks Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 > Since I don't work as a GM or > college talent evaluator for the > NFL, I will assume they feel they > can develop him into a franchise QB. Right. Because the Bills' string of uninterrupted success stories at the quarterback position are enough to inspire blind confidence in almost anyone. I will never forget the sheer brilliance of the Todd Collins selection; or the clever move to trade a third round pick for Billy Joe Hobart. Trading a first for Rob Johnson was a good call. The Bills also proved smarter than the rest of the league when they were the only ones to offer a first round pick for Drew Bledsoe. Using a first round pick on Losman was a great idea, even though he fit the profile for a standard-issue first round bust. With a track record like that, how could anyone possibly have any doubts at all about the Manuel selection? I mean, granted, the guy wasn't an accomplished pocket passer at the college level; and just about every other first round QB like that has gone on to be a bust. But if someone with a sterling track record like the Bills' front office says Manuel will be the exception to that rule, how could anyone possibly question their judgement? The fact is that the past has almost nothing to do with the present as the people behind those moves are no longer part of the Bills F.O. And even if they were, it may not amount to much. The examples you cited are no more relevant than it would be to assume that since Jim Kelly was a great QB, and the Bills drafted Kelly in the first round, therefore EJ Manuel will be a great QB because he was drafted by the Bills in the first round. This is clearly not the case. Most Bills fans have doubts about E J Manuel because we don't know if he will be a good NFL QB or not. We will know around 2015 or so, as Manuel will either still be the Bills QB, or he won't. But the whole thing is kind of like that disclaimer that they read in mutual fund ads. You know, "past performance is not a guarantee of future success" or something to that effect.
Orton's Arm Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 The fact is that the past has almost nothing to do with the present as the people behind those moves are no longer part of the Bills F.O. And even if they were, it may not amount to much. The examples you cited are no more relevant than it would be to assume that since Jim Kelly was a great QB, and the Bills drafted Kelly in the first round, therefore EJ Manuel will be a great QB because he was drafted by the Bills in the first round. This is clearly not the case. Most Bills fans have doubts about E J Manuel because we don't know if he will be a good NFL QB or not. We will know around 2015 or so, as Manuel will either still be the Bills QB, or he won't. But the whole thing is kind of like that disclaimer that they read in mutual fund ads. You know, "past performance is not a guarantee of future success" or something to that effect. > The fact is that the past has almost > nothing to do with the present as the > people behind those moves are no > longer part of the Bills F.O. Granted. I'm guessing that most of the faces in the Bills' front office are different than had been the case the last time around (Losman pick). To clarify my last post: I'm not trying to say that we should automatically assume everything this front office does is a boneheaded move. (Even though there have been plenty of boneheaded moves in the post-Polian era.) What I am trying to say is that we shouldn't automatically place blind faith in the Bills' front office; any more than we'd place blind faith in the front office of the St. Louis Rams, the Jacksonville Jaguars, or some other team which has been below .500 in recent years. When Jacksonville took Blaine Gabbert, or Denver took Tebow, or the Raiders took Jamarcus Russell, it was easy for a lot of people here to see very early on that those players would be busts. The Buffalo front office hasn't proven itself better than those other teams' front offices. Manuel is not a better prospect than Gabbert, Losman, or a number of other QBs like that. But people on these boards have made an emotional investment in Manuel that they didn't make in QBs like Gabbert, which is why Manuel is being discussed differently.
MDH Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 > Since I don't work as a GM or > college talent evaluator for the > NFL, I will assume they feel they > can develop him into a franchise QB. Right. Because the Bills' string of uninterrupted success stories at the quarterback position are enough to inspire blind confidence in almost anyone. I will never forget the sheer brilliance of the Todd Collins selection; or the clever move to trade a third round pick for Billy Joe Hobart. Trading a first for Rob Johnson was a good call. The Bills also proved smarter than the rest of the league when they were the only ones to offer a first round pick for Drew Bledsoe. Using a first round pick on Losman was a great idea, even though he fit the profile for a standard-issue first round bust. With a track record like that, how could anyone possibly have any doubts at all about the Manuel selection? I mean, granted, the guy wasn't an accomplished pocket passer at the college level; and just about every other first round QB like that has gone on to be a bust. But if someone with a sterling track record like the Bills' front office says Manuel will be the exception to that rule, how could anyone possibly question their judgement? Hey, I'm as frustrated as anybody and won't let this administration off the hook for the bad decisions they make/have made. The problem is you're trying to blame them for somebody else's decisions just because they work for the same franchise. If you're going to do that they you should give them credit for landing and developing Kelly and Kemp.
JohnC Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) The fact is that the past has almostWhen Jacksonville took Blaine Gabbert, or Denver took Tebow, or the Raiders took Jamarcus Russell, it was easy for a lot of people here to see very early on that those players would be busts. The Buffalo front office hasn't proven itself better than those other teams' front offices. Manuel is not a better prospect than Gabbert, Losman, or a number of other QBs like that. But people on these boards have made an emotional investment in Manuel that they didn't make in QBs like Gabbert, which is why Manuel is being discussed differently. It appears that you have already made an iron-clad judgment on Manuel. You have a specific qb profile that you adhere to when evaluating prospects. You would have passed on unconventional qbs such as Newton or Kaepernick and favored more cerebral qbs such as Schaub and Alex Smith. Another way of describing your position on qb prospects is that you have a script and unless a prospect matches with your self-limiting script you will not deviate on your approach to grading qb prospects. My problem with your position (approach) is that it is too restrictive. Open up your playbook and add more pages to it. There are different styles of running that can be successful. There are different types of receivers that can be successful. There are different coaching styles that can be successful. There are different philosophies that GMs take in building teams that do well. I don't know if EJ is going to be a successful qb. No one does. But that is the point. It is simply too early to make that determination on him. What you witness this year is not necessarily what you will witness next year and the year after. It's a process. Sometimes the road to a destination is smooth and in a straight line. And more often than not the road follows a circuitous route with a lot of pot holes. I have no problem with you being uncertain about EJ, as I am. But I do have an issue with your declarative position on him at this stage of the game. Edited November 17, 2013 by JohnC
Numark Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 I wouldn't take any QB from the last draft class over EJ. He will be more than okay I like your opinion Numark from 6 days ago
Tcali Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 ej was average today---at least its a step up
Numark Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 ej was average today---at least its a step up yea okay
Rob's House Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 EJ was garbage today. We only one because Graham, Goodwin, and the defense bailed him out.
Tcali Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 EJ was garbage today. We only one because Graham, Goodwin, and the defense bailed him out. he wasnt garbage....altho that TD to graham was a laser
ajzepp Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 ej was average today---at least its a step up If only we could say the same about the quality of your posts...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 EJ was garbage today. We only one because Graham, Goodwin, and the defense bailed him out. We only what? :lol:
bobblehead Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 EJ was garbage today. We only one because Graham, Goodwin, and the defense bailed him out. EJ was garbage today. We only one because Graham, Goodwin, and the defense bailed him out. RJ, I mean EJ, awww f&$k me! Toronto Bills!
MDH Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 EJ was garbage today. We only one because Graham, Goodwin, and the defense bailed him out. No wonder you liked Flutie, you don't recognize good QB play when you see it.
ajzepp Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 MDH: you mean you didn't see Goodwin throwing the ball to himself? He's really fast.
Rob's House Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 No wonder you liked Flutie, you don't recognize good QB play when you see it.
MDH Posted November 17, 2013 Posted November 17, 2013 Hah, I'm just ribbing you, I know you're just joking.
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