Garranimal Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 Total QBR before this game for each of our QB's. EJ 42.2 Thad 19.1 Tuel 9.6 WOW...how can anyone say EJ was awful prior to injury when his QBR was more than double the next closest guy? According to NFL.com: EJ is the 33rd Ranked QB (by conventional QB rating) and Thad is 32nd (79.2 vs. 80.4 respectively). EJ is ranked 35th in yards per game, while Thad is ranked 25th. (197 vs 217.3) EJ is ranked 43rd in completion % while Thad is ranked 32nd. (56.7 vs 60.2) EJ is ranked 36th in avg yards/attempt while Thad is ranked 40th (6.6 vs 6.3) EJ's long completion of the year is 45 yds while Thad's is 47. (Jeff Tuel has a long of 59 by the way) these too, are facts and show little to no separation between these QBs besides their draft positions. Lies, damned lies and statistics!
jumbalaya Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 EJ was not ready to play today. Maybe physically he was capable of playing but he was not ready to play QB. Either Lewis or Teul would have been better. Our coaching staff really makes a lot of poor choices. Hackett has to be the worst OC in the league. CJ is really trying hard to win a first round bust label. If worked on his game half as much as he works his jaw with the opposing players he'd be all-pro. He is well on his way to being another Lee Evans, a flash in the pan, but no heart for the game. He can't even beat out an aging Freddy who is showing he doesn't have a lot left in the tank.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 The thing that is frustrating is that my expectation of Manuel--maybe it is way off base-- was that we were getting a strong, mobile QB, who had excellent accuracy, mechanics, and could make all the throws. I expected him to go through the normal rookie learning curve--of throwing bad picks, making poor reads, needing time to grasp the speed of the game. Frankly, something like what Geno Smith has looked like so far. But I was not expecting someone with such ragged mechanics and no real confidence in being able to throw downfield. That is what is scary. What we saw today was the a combination of Fitz mechanics and Trent Edwards tentativeness. Why did you think he had those abilities? He didn't show it in college. According to NFL.com: EJ is the 33rd Ranked QB (by conventional QB rating) and Thad is 32nd (79.2 vs. 80.4 respectively). EJ is ranked 35th in yards per game, while Thad is ranked 25th. (197 vs 217.3) EJ is ranked 43rd in completion % while Thad is ranked 32nd. (56.7 vs 60.2) EJ is ranked 36th in avg yards/attempt while Thad is ranked 40th (6.6 vs 6.3) EJ's long completion of the year is 45 yds while Thad's is 47. (Jeff Tuel has a long of 59 by the way) these too, are facts and show little to no separation between these QBs besides their draft positions. Lies, damned lies and statistics! What about tuel ?
3putt Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 At this juncture we can only be concerned about EJ being injury prone. He hasn't enough in pre-season and the regular-season to form any qualified opinions. Ej blows. PEOPLE ie the fo fell in love with potential and ignored production. His alma mater runs a full pro set now that he is gone. He blows. No explanation necessary
26CornerBlitz Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 this but # 1 Question for you. Is Manziel the best NFL QB prospect in College Football IYO?
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 Why did you think he had those abilities? He didn't show it in college. Here is one scouting report on EJ: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ej-manuel?id=2539228 STRENGTHS Physically imposing passer. Throws from the shotgun often, but is also effective on play action. Flashes the velocity to stretch the field and throw in tight spaces. Displays good touch on throws to each level of the field, finds receivers between defenders and drop passes over their head. Good athlete with the mobility to step up in the pocket to avoid pressure and take advantage of openings to pick up first downs with his feet. Quick release, though it often looks as though he's throwing darts on shorter throws. Intelligent, high character team leader.
OldTimer1960 Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 (edited) Manuel was a 1st round pick. Compare him to other first round picks to be fair. Or how about 2nd or 3rd round picks? Comparing him to two undrafted players with as many career starts combined as Manuel is not a fair comparison. OK, Christian Ponder was a 1st round pick and EJ has generally out-played him. I think I could probably find more... Oh yeah, Brandon Wheedon was also a 1st round pick... EJ was not ready to play today. Maybe physically he was capable of playing but he was not ready to play QB. Either Lewis or Teul would have been better. Our coaching staff really makes a lot of poor choices. Hackett has to be the worst OC in the league. CJ is really trying hard to win a first round bust label. If worked on his game half as much as he works his jaw with the opposing players he'd be all-pro. He is well on his way to being another Lee Evans, a flash in the pan, but no heart for the game. He can't even beat out an aging Freddy who is showing he doesn't have a lot left in the tank. Why do you say this? The guy averaged 6+ ypc last year and has clearly been injured this year with a high-ankle sprain. Yes, he takes a lot of runs wide and gains little, however if there were remotely a passing game, these runs may work... Offense (and defense) are systems that are undermined by their weakest links.... Edited November 10, 2013 by OldTimer1960
IronyAbounds Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 EJ has not yet had a game anywhere near as bad as Geno's worst...so what do you want me to compare? How many rookie QB's are playing this year...oh yeah, 3 and 2 of them are on our team. In a thread claiming tout facts, I'd think you would be better about the facts you are presenting. Today's game was as bad as anything Geno has done. Also, Mike Glennon, who was drafted well after EJ, is starting and playing better than EJ has. I understand the desperate desire that EJ be the answer at QB, but so far he has not shown that he is the guy to lead the Bills to the promised land, or even a .500 record for that matter.
Not at the table Karlos Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 OK, Christian Ponder was a 1st round pick and EJ has generally out-played him. I think I could probably find more... Oh yeah, Brandon Wheedon was also a 1st round pick... Why do you say this? The guy averaged 6+ ypc last year and has clearly been injured this year with a high-ankle sprain. Yes, he takes a lot of runs wide and gains little, however if there were remotely a passing game, these runs may work... Offense (and defense) are systems that are undermined by their weakest links.... Cj along with Fred have an excuse. We don't throw well enough to get the defenders to stop keying in on the run. If we could pass the run will open up. Also the read option blows the play calling is suspect
ny33 Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 All day the shout box was littered with false statements of how bad EJ was prior to injury and that somehow Thad and Tuel weren't. Well, lets look at real facts to help refresh some perspective around here. Total QBR before this game for each of our QB's. EJ 42.2 Thad 19.1 Tuel 9.6 WOW...how can anyone say EJ was awful prior to injury when his QBR was more than double the next closest guy? Facts: -Won rookie of the week -Led 4th quarter win by driving field under 2 min with no timeouts against the NUMBER ONE ranked PASS defense in the NFL (Carolina) and 3rd ranked D overall. -Had us in position to beat Pats but penalties and dropped passes lost us that game -Put 24 points in 3 quarters on Cleveland (tough D) and was driving for the lead late when he got hurt. -Played solid in win over SB Champs -Made some big throws in multiple games showing great touch and great arm strength. -Has made plays with his legs -Missed half of preseason as a rookie with injury -Missed half regular season as a rookie with knee injury (something both physical and psychological to overcome and trust again) -EJ Wins - 2...Thad and Tuel COMBINED wins - 1 (and Tuel lost a game where EJ was playing well and driving us late for the lead and came out with a pick 6 to seal the loss) Yes he played bad today and in the Jets game. But he played good enough in the first 5 games he appeared in to show he is a better option than anyone on this team and someone worth developing and letting him play this season out and build on his career. VERY FEW ROOKIE QB'S COME IN AND LIGHT THE NFL ON FIRE. Patience people...patience. Time will tell what he will or won't be, not this stupid game against the Steelers. Total QBR is a subjective stat (im)properly calculated by ESPN analysts. The NFL Rookie of the Week is based off of fan voting. Of course a quarterback with a comeback victory will get the votes from fans over, say, an offensive lineman. I'm not nearly as frustrated by Manuel as I am by Marrone and Hackett's decision to play him this week, when he clearly needed another week of practice reps. He also needs a real Q.B. coach to fix his footwork.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 10, 2013 Posted November 10, 2013 Question for you. Is Manziel the best NFL QB prospect in College Football IYO? Yes. He doesn't have ideal size or arm but good enough. He reminds me of Brees and Vick. of all the QBs of watched this year he is way above them. Mariota is good but too me Johny is better. Bridgewater reminds me of AJ McCarron, which is good not great so not buying the hype Boyd is great and then poor so too inconsistent, reminds me of a lesser Vick. Hundley, meh. Here is one scouting report on EJ: http://www.nfl.com/d...nuel?id=2539228 STRENGTHS Physically imposing passer. Throws from the shotgun often, but is also effective on play action. Flashes the velocity to stretch the field and throw in tight spaces. Displays good touch on throws to each level of the field, finds receivers between defenders and drop passes over their head. Good athlete with the mobility to step up in the pocket to avoid pressure and take advantage of openings to pick up first downs with his feet. Quick release, though it often looks as though he's throwing darts on shorter throws. Intelligent, high character team leader. I can understand your consternation then, I gave up on scouting reports, they always lead me wrong when I haven't seen the player myself. When I watched EJ in college I wasn't impressed and sadly nothing has changed. This why I was so mad when when and where we drafted him.
Not at the table Karlos Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 Watch a highlight video of ej you will see how inaccurate he is. I didn't watch ej in college but I watched some of the highlights of him and I wasn't impressed. Never hit his receivers in stride and under threw most of his deep passes
Alphadawg7 Posted November 11, 2013 Author Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) Yes. He doesn't have ideal size or arm but good enough. He reminds me of Brees and Vick. of all the QBs of watched this year he is way above them. Mariota is good but too me Johny is better. Bridgewater reminds me of AJ McCarron, which is good not great so not buying the hype Boyd is great and then poor so too inconsistent, reminds me of a lesser Vick. Hundley, meh. I can understand your consternation then, I gave up on scouting reports, they always lead me wrong when I haven't seen the player myself. When I watched EJ in college I wasn't impressed and sadly nothing has changed. This why I was so mad when when and where we drafted him. Manziel won't even be the first QB drafted. He might not even be in top 3 come draft time Edited November 11, 2013 by Alphadawg7
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 Manziel won't even be the first QB drafted. He might not even be in top 3 come draft time hopefully and he goes strait us (evil genius laugh)
26CornerBlitz Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 hopefully and he goes strait us (evil genius laugh) Dude, Your track record on College QBs is very ???????
Prickly Pete Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 (edited) All day the shout box was littered with false statements of how bad EJ was prior to injury and that somehow Thad and Tuel weren't. Well, lets look at real facts to help refresh some perspective around here. Total QBR before this game for each of our QB's. EJ 42.2 Thad 19.1 Tuel 9.6 WOW...how can anyone say EJ was awful prior to injury when his QBR was more than double the next closest guy? Facts: -Won rookie of the week -Led 4th quarter win by driving field under 2 min with no timeouts against the NUMBER ONE ranked PASS defense in the NFL (Carolina) and 3rd ranked D overall. -Had us in position to beat Pats but penalties and dropped passes lost us that game -Put 24 points in 3 quarters on Cleveland (tough D) and was driving for the lead late when he got hurt. -Played solid in win over SB Champs -Made some big throws in multiple games showing great touch and great arm strength. -Has made plays with his legs -Missed half of preseason as a rookie with injury -Missed half regular season as a rookie with knee injury (something both physical and psychological to overcome and trust again) -EJ Wins - 2...Thad and Tuel COMBINED wins - 1 (and Tuel lost a game where EJ was playing well and driving us late for the lead and came out with a pick 6 to seal the loss) Yes he played bad today and in the Jets game. But he played good enough in the first 5 games he appeared in to show he is a better option than anyone on this team and someone worth developing and letting him play this season out and build on his career. VERY FEW ROOKIE QB'S COME IN AND LIGHT THE NFL ON FIRE. Patience people...patience. Time will tell what he will or won't be, not this stupid game against the Steelers. I am curious A-Dawg, when did you give in on Trentative? How long before you gave up on Fitzrratic? I get the feeling that you latch on to these guys, and then just dig deeper and deeper holes, deflecting blame away from them. Edited November 11, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 Dude, Your track record on College QBs is very ??????? what ever, you guys always remember the bad one and not the good and no I'm not going to bring them up for the 100th time.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 what ever, you guys always remember the bad one and not the good and no I'm not going to bring them up for the 100th time. I'm not sold on Manziel as an NFL QB with his helter skelter style of running around to make things happen. The #1 College QB prospect...not IMO.
BarleyNY Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 The point isn't whether or not Manuel is better than Lewis or Tuel, it's whether or not he's a franchise QB. It is fair to note that he is a rookie. Fine But the early returns are not promising. If I was in the Bills FO I would not be giving up on Manuel already, but I would still looking for a QB.
mannc Posted November 11, 2013 Posted November 11, 2013 Manziel won't even be the first QB drafted. He might not even be in top 3 come draft time I agree that he probably won't be the first QB selected, but if he was, we probably would not have a shot at him.
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