dubs Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Ok. But that is also why That Lewis is currently our back up. Once again, Tuel is a 3rd stringer. Relax. He does certain things well. Yes, his arm is weak. But he wasn't scared of the moment when he was actually prepared and he will learn from his mistakes because he's a smart qb. Writing someone off on 1 1/2 bad games is crazy. And throw the college record out. It was Wash St. playing in the Pac 12. Also, there's ABSOLUTELY no basis for saying they would be "MUCH" better options. No basis for that. I hope you're right man. I really do. I'm actually pretty positive on this team and the direction of it. Just not having an UDFA rookie who should be on the PS, at best, taking live snaps. While it's obviously not a good situation having to pick up a veteran off final cuts or during the year, I think it's preferable to what the Bills did. Experience, some good physical traits, years of reading NFL defenses and knowing the speed of the game is what you need in a backup.
LB3 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Leinart was here for about 48 hours prior to a preseason game. He was never given a chance. He was here to take snaps, period. Leinarts Bills stats: 3/10. 11 yds. 2 int....I don't care how long you are with a team. That is awful. Especially since you're an experienced player.
dubs Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Leinarts Bills stats: 3/10. 11 yds. 2 int....I don't care how long you are with a team. That is awful. Especially since you're an experienced player. Got it. Good analysis.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) If Rodgers misses any significant time, the Pack should get the newly unemployed Matt Flynn back on their roster. Edited November 5, 2013 by 26CornerBlitz
YoloinOhio Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Better options and insurance for Manuel than Tuel? The list is pretty long. Carr, Quinn, leftwich, Leinart, V Young, etc... Yet no other team signed them - with all the QB issues around the league - and they are all home sitting on their couches... good call. Really? Really? Seneca Wallace: very good college career, drafted in 4th round, been in the league since 2003, started 21 games, thrown for almost 5000 yards in his career, 31TDs and 19INTs. Almost a 60% completion rate. Jeff Tuel: had a horrible college career. Never started an NFL game, got completely owned in his only live action, has a weak arm, should never have been in that position. Not even remotely comparable situations. He threw 27 INTs in his 2 years at Iowa State. His first 2 years were at Sacramento City College. He has started 21 games and thrown for 5000 yds because he has been on 3 teams and is a decade older than Tuel. He has a 80 career passer rating. He has been cut by three teams in less than ONE year. One of those teams was... wait for it.. the Browns, who have zero answer at QB. It does not make ANY difference where a QB was drafted once they are 33 and bounced around the league. There are numerous #1 picks who are out of the league. But you are right about one thing - you can't compare him to Tuel, since Tuel was 4th string and Wallace was 2nd string. Yet, interestingly, the result was the same. They both lost. If Rodgers misses any significant time, the Pack should get the newly unemployed Matt Flynn back on their roster. They will need to get someone to even just back up Wallace, because right now he is the only other active QB. Bills with McCown at QB beat KC handily. Or any other 2nd string QB? Edited November 5, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo
dubs Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Yet no other team signed them - with all the QB issues around the league - and they are all home sitting on their couches... good call. He threw 27 INTs in his 2 years at Iowa State. His first 2 years were at Sacramento City College. He has started 21 games and thrown for 5000 yds because he has been on 3 teams and is a decade older than Tuel. He has a 80 career passer rating. He has been cut by three teams in less than ONE year. One of those teams was... wait for it.. the Browns, who have zero answer at QB. It does not make ANY difference where a QB was drafted once they are 33 and bounced around the league. There are numerous #1 picks who are out of the league. But you are right about one thing - you can't compare him to Tuel, since Tuel was 4th string and Wallace was 2nd string. Yet, interestingly, the result was the same. They both lost. Do you (and anyone else defending Tuel), really think he belongs in the game and would do a better job than any number of veteran backups out there? For those of you new to football, here's generally how employing at the QB position goes. Starters are proven guys or guys who have been drafted high, or someone who has demonstrated a lot of potential and it's finally their time to show what they can do. Primary backups are usually the capable veterans or younger guys on the upswing. Guys that have sat for a while and learned the offense. 3rd String/Practice Squad guys almost never see the field and are on the team to stash for development. The FO likes something they see and want to take some time to develop their skills. If they ever get pressed into duty for a game (usually both QBs in front of them get hurt during a game), then a team brings in other guys to bridge the gap between then and the time a more capable backup or starter already on the team comes back. What category do you think Jeff Tuel is in? Correct, PS. The guys out there unsigned are not unsigned because teams put the best three QBs for right now on the team, it's because they follow this model and they available guys are not going to be on the PS of any team. However, they would be improvements over most team's developmental QBs. Following this logic, you can see that Tuel should never have been pressed into service. He should have been 3rd string the whole year, as soon as we knew Kolb was out. We don't need a guy learning the game on the fly like that. They need a guy that can bridge the gap for a game or two. You bring in a guy like David Carr or David Garrard or Brady Quinn, a guy with experience, some success, decent physical tools, and we have a better chance of winning both the Cleveland game and the KC game. That's on the FO, not Tuel. He did the best he could, I believe.
Fan in Chicago Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Or any other 2nd string QB? One that would not commit turnovers. We could have even beaten the Saints if it wasn't for lack of ball security.
26CornerBlitz Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Hello Matt, This is Ted Thompson...You have a plane to catch. @CBSSports Aaron Rodgers reportedly has a fractured collarbone that could keep him out three weeks. http://cbsprt.co/RodgersOut
YoloinOhio Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 One that would not commit turnovers. We could have even beaten the Saints if it wasn't for lack of ball security. And with your crystal ball, you would select _______
YoloinOhio Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Do you (and anyone else defending Tuel), really think he belongs in the game and would do a better job than any number of veteran backups out there? For those of you new to football, here's generally how employing at the QB position goes. Starters are proven guys or guys who have been drafted high, or someone who has demonstrated a lot of potential and it's finally their time to show what they can do. Primary backups are usually the capable veterans or younger guys on the upswing. Guys that have sat for a while and learned the offense. 3rd String/Practice Squad guys almost never see the field and are on the team to stash for development. The FO likes something they see and want to take some time to develop their skills. If they ever get pressed into duty for a game (usually both QBs in front of them get hurt during a game), then a team brings in other guys to bridge the gap between then and the time a more capable backup or starter already on the team comes back. What category do you think Jeff Tuel is in? Correct, PS. The guys out there unsigned are not unsigned because teams put the best three QBs for right now on the team, it's because they follow this model and they available guys are not going to be on the PS of any team. However, they would be improvements over most team's developmental QBs. Following this logic, you can see that Tuel should never have been pressed into service. He should have been 3rd string the whole year, as soon as we knew Kolb was out. We don't need a guy learning the game on the fly like that. They need a guy that can bridge the gap for a game or two. You bring in a guy like David Carr or David Garrard or Brady Quinn, a guy with experience, some success, decent physical tools, and we have a better chance of winning both the Cleveland game and the KC game. That's on the FO, not Tuel. He did the best he could, I believe. I am not "defending" Tuel. I am pointing out the reality of the situation which is far from what people want to see. How does anyone know that any of these unemployed veterans would have done a better job when in fact I have seen worse performances from every name on this list, more than once? Do you know for sure they would not throw bad passes or INTs? Because they all throw bad passes and INTs, they are all unemployed. The FO had the QBs in this order: EJ (starter), Kolb (vet backup), Tuel (3rd string/development). Kolb got hurt in August. They should have brought in another vet. No FAs good enough? They should have traded for someone. Oh wait, they did? They traded for Thad Lewis. 3 weeks before the season. No camp with the WRs, no knowledge of the system of playbook. But that is what you get when you bring in a QB from the outside. Tuel up to #2 because he (1) had been in camp the whole time (2) knew the playbook (3) had reps with the WRs and played in the PS. No way to bring up Thad to the active roster because of all of the injuries in the secondary and having to sign guys and having to carry 2 kickers. EJ got hurt, had to make a roster move to bring up Thad. Immediately made #2, since as you said, Tuel is clear #3 and didn't fare well when thrust into game action. But you're right, they should have picked up another vet. One available in October. Oh wait, they did? They signed Matt Flynn. No camp with the WRs, no knowledge of the system or playbook. But that is what you get when you bring in a QB from the outside 6 games into the season. Thad played three games, Tuel none. Flynn none. Thad got hurt. One week until the next game.Decision is only between Tuel and Flynn. Tuel beat out Flynn for the start. EJ better, Flynn gone 3 minutes after he is cleared. Forgive me if I trust a year of scouting a player, months of trainuing camp, film room, meetings and practices from NFL player personnel evaluators and coaches over fans on a message board as to what QBs would have the best chance to play well for the Bills. No one has any way of knowing how any of the other "options" would have fared either against the Browns or Chiefs. Honestly, if you think Tuel has potential that's a problem. All of those guys would have been a MUCH better solution. But if you're dug in on loving Tuel there's not much anyone can say to discourage you. Leinart was here for about 48 hours prior to a preseason game. He was never given a chance. He was here to take snaps, period. Tuel is honestly the worst QB I've seen in a Bills uni in 30 years. Maybe he gets better, and I hope he does. Really, I have nothing against him. It was just tough watching him. I am shocked you have not been hired to work in an NFL FO. You clearly have spent the required hundreds of hours scouting and evaluating NFL personnel and know more than those currently in these positions. How do you find time for message boards?
NoSaint Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I am not "defending" Tuel. I am pointing out the reality of the situation which is far from what people want to see. How does anyone know that any of these unemployed veterans would have done a better job when in fact I have seen worse performances from every name on this list, more than once? Do you know for sure they would not throw bad passes or INTs? Because they all throw bad passes and INTs, they are all unemployed. The FO had the QBs in this order: EJ (starter), Kolb (vet backup), Tuel (3rd string/development). Kolb got hurt in August. They should have brought in another vet. No FAs good enough? They should have traded for someone. Oh wait, they did? They traded for Thad Lewis. 3 weeks before the season. No camp with the WRs, no knowledge of the system of playbook. But that is what you get when you bring in a QB from the outside. Tuel up to #2 because he (1) had been in camp the whole time (2) knew the playbook (3) had reps with the WRs and played in the PS. No way to bring up Thad to the active roster because of all of the injuries in the secondary and having to sign guys and having to carry 2 kickers. EJ got hurt, had to make a roster move to bring up Thad. Immediately made #2, since as you said, Tuel is clear #3 and didn't fare well when thrust into game action. But you're right, they should have picked up another vet. One available in October. Oh wait, they did? They signed Matt Flynn. No camp with the WRs, no knowledge of the system or playbook. But that is what you get when you bring in a QB from the outside 6 games into the season. Thad played three games, Tuel none. Flynn none. Thad got hurt. One week until the next game.Decision is only between Tuel and Flynn. Tuel beat out Flynn for the start. EJ better, Flynn gone 3 minutes after he is cleared. Forgive me if I trust a year of scouting a player, months of trainuing camp, film room, meetings and practices from NFL player personnel evaluators and coaches over fans on a message board as to what QBs would have the best chance to play well for the Bills. No one has any way of knowing how any of the other "options" would have fared either against the Browns or Chiefs. I am shocked you have not been hired to work in an NFL FO. You clearly have spent the required hundreds of hours scouting and evaluating NFL personnel and know more than those currently in these positions. How do you find time for message boards? the problem is, it doesnt seem even the front office really wants tuel on the field... but you can only hide a guy on the 53 so long if injuries start piling up. by my estimation we took a risk by hoping that he wouldnt see the field, and through bad luck his number came up before it was supposed to. it happens. i wouldve much prefered holding tjax until the final cuts but once that move was made im not sure you can beat up the front office too badly for how they handled things. i wouldve liked two vets through the offseason, simply as insurance though.
chris heff Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Honestly, if you think Tuel has potential that's a problem. All of those guys would have been a MUCH better solution. But if you're dug in on loving Tuel there's not much anyone can say to discourage you. Leinart was here for about 48 hours prior to a preseason game. He was never given a chance. He was here to take snaps, period. Tuel is honestly the worst QB I've seen in a Bills uni in 30 years. Maybe he gets better, and I hope he does. Really, I have nothing against him. It was just tough watching him. Tuel is not an NFL QB, arm not strong enough and not accurate. I still expect him to get cut. Going into the season with Tuel as the backup was a mistake. They needed a veteran that knew his role. Mentor Manuel and be able to win a couple of games if needed. Thirty years? You don't remember Willie Totten or Billy Joe Holbert for starters.
dubs Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 the problem is, it doesnt seem even the front office really wants tuel on the field... but you can only hide a guy on the 53 so long if injuries start piling up. by my estimation we took a risk by hoping that he wouldnt see the field, and through bad luck his number came up before it was supposed to. it happens. i wouldve much prefered holding tjax until the final cuts but once that move was made im not sure you can beat up the front office too badly for how they handled things. i wouldve liked two vets through the offseason, simply as insurance though. I agree with you on this and I think you hit the nail on the head. The only thing that I criticize them on is not bringing in a guy earlier on, understanding that the guys they have in place are all injury prone or their style of play makes them susceptible to injury. That's the smart play. It's the most important position in sports. When Kolb AND EJ were hurt, they needed to do something other than hope EJ heals quickly or Thad doesn't get hurt. Anytime you are one play away from having Tuel get on the field it's a bad situation. But I do agree, it's a lot of back luck too. Tuel is not an NFL QB, arm not strong enough and not accurate. I still expect him to get cut. Going into the season with Tuel as the backup was a mistake. They needed a veteran that knew his role. Mentor Manuel and be able to win a couple of games if needed. Thirty years? You don't remember Willie Totten or Billy Joe Holbert for starters. I do! My friends sister actually was the one that found Billy Joe Hobert's play book. That was a disaster as well.
Fan in Chicago Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 And with your crystal ball, you would select _______ You misunderstand my statement. What I meant is that with our D, Lewis and Tuel could both have won their respective games with a limited passing attack. All they had to do was protect the football as McCown did last night
bowery4 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Honestly, if you think Tuel has potential that's a problem. All of those guys would have been a MUCH better solution. But if you're dug in on loving Tuel there's not much anyone can say to discourage you. Leinart was here for about 48 hours prior to a preseason game. He was never given a chance. He was here to take snaps, period. Tuel is honestly the worst QB I've seen in a Bills uni in 30 years. Maybe he gets better, and I hope he does. Really, I have nothing against him. It was just tough watching him. Your pretty much on a crusade. Have you ever read the terms of service?
YoloinOhio Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 You misunderstand my statement. What I meant is that with our D, Lewis and Tuel could both have won their respective games with a limited passing attack. All they had to do was protect the football as McCown did last night Understood, and that is totally fair. I guess I just don't know how you can ever be sure any QB will not commit turnovers. The best QBs in the lague throw INTs and fumble too. Sure you have a better chance with a starting caliber QB, but it is truly unpredictable.
Dan Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I do! My friends sister actually was the one that found Billy Joe Hobert's play book. That was a disaster as well. If you remember Hobert, then your memory is severely flawed. There is no way Tuel played worse than Billy Joe, among several other QBs over the years. Yes, Tuel made some bad throws and bad decisions. But, as a rookie in his first ever start, you should expect that. To villainize the guy into the worst QB to ever wear a Bills uni is completely inaccurate. Because for as much bad as he may have done, he also did some pretty good (59yd TD, Woods TD drop, several other nice passes dropped, blocked for CJ). If anything, he was asked to do entirely too much, but I guess that's on him as well.
YoloinOhio Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 If you remember Hobert, then your memory is severely flawed. There is no way Tuel played worse than Billy Joe, among several other QBs over the years. Yes, Tuel made some bad throws and bad decisions. But, as a rookie in his first ever start, you should expect that. To villainize the guy into the worst QB to ever wear a Bills uni is completely inaccurate. Because for as much bad as he may have done, he also did some pretty good (59yd TD, Woods TD drop, several other nice passes dropped, blocked for CJ). If anything, he was asked to do entirely too much, but I guess that's on him as well. I was on the fence on this because I trust the coaches but am coming around to feeling the same.
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