thebandit27 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Gosh. If this is about homosexuality... and it is going down like it is... and it is in Miami... I think the only thing that would make it better is if pictures came out of Martin and Tom Brady cuddling on a beach. I mean, as a Bills fan... its perfect. As a human - if this is anything about homosexuality I will be even more disappointed then I am now. Racism, homophobia, any intolerance toward any other person for such reasons... that does piss me off. Agreed...you wanna talk about ignorance? There it is in all its spectacle.
boyst Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 In a society where every issue seems to have two sides and there's no subtlety or nuance or middle ground, NFL needs to make it clear to all players, coaches, broadcasters, and anyone else connected to the game that there can be no reasonable debate on this topic. Martin did the right thing. Indeed, Martin did the only thing he should have done. Players who choose to stand up for themselves via physical and verbal confrontations risk an escalation that could turn ugly. Given the number of American workplaces in which disgruntled employees have committed horribly violent acts and in light of the high percentage of professional football players who own guns, getting in a guy's face away from the field no longer should be regarded as an acceptable solution to harassment. A truly grown-ass man will at all times refrain from violence, he'll file a complaint, and he'll deal with the flak from any meatheads who think that it's still better to punch someone in the mouth. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/11/05/martin-bears-no-blame-for-doing-the-right-thing/ and when it doesn't get better and you're backed in to a corner you will have to stand up for yourself. Whether it is subtle or timid or a punch in the nose it needs to happen at some point. Its natural reaction vs societal influence aka pussification
NoSaint Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Did you get this from dog by way of a guy named Talbot? jesus.... i just looked at his twitter and hes really speculating the RI and JM are lovers..... i tried to be constructive in my criticism of his "articles" but honestly i hope not to see him back if thats the common sense hes displaying.
boyst Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) ESPN just texted Martin never approached Philben about this... K want to to know why? Was he afraid? Was he scared -if gay - to bring awareness to it? Did he not have the balls? What...what can possibly be the reason you do not go to your boss before you just quit? Could it be that bad? I really can't see it. I've been a lot of places in life and done a lot of things and all I can still say is there is much more to this story even at this point Edited November 5, 2013 by jboyst62
BuffaloBob Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) which leads me to wonder. Where in this was the Fins organization? I cannot imagine with his precise care in bringing this to attention he did not mention it to them. If he did....well its going to get very ugly OH, I see now. It was the Dolphin organization's fault for letting Richie be the a-hole that he is. It's not Richie's fault, as someone of authority should have stepped in and stopped him from being the butthole that he is. Yes, let's all feel sorry for and make the bully the victim. After all, he was only doing what his father taught him, he was only doing what he thought was ok. It was Martin's fault for being the kind of guy Richie is attracted to bullying. It's the team's fault and Martin's fault for not saving him from himself. Whatever. Edited November 5, 2013 by BuffaloBob
Jauronimo Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 jesus.... i just looked at his twitter and hes really speculating the RI and JM are lovers..... i tried to be constructive in my criticism of his "articles" but honestly i hope not to see him back if thats the common sense hes displaying. Maybe hes got sources deep within the organization? A quick google search suggests that Talbot is pretty much alone in his opinion. Haven't seen anyone else speculating as much, besides drocksthewhatever and doge14787. Much insight. So amaze.
Rob's House Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Maybe Martin realized that he just doesn't like playing pro football all that much, and he decided to pursue endeavors which he feels are more worldly and stimulating? Maybe he walked away to make a statement? Sorry, but the notion that a "man" must resort to violence when confronted with violence, is pretty simple way of looking at things. Was Gandhi not a "man"? I never suggested fighting. You can stand up to a bully without it getting physical. It just requires addressing him as an assertive man rather than a whining boy.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 As an aside it would be interesting if he were gay. Stanford would have Martin, Jason Collins and Kwame Harris out. I don't know why I think that it is interesting but of all the professional athletes out of the closet that would be an extremely high percentage. Typically tolerance and intelligence are linked so maybe that has something to do with it. It is not as big of a deal in their social circle outside of the locker room. Just thinking out loud...
NoSaint Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I never suggested fighting. You can stand up to a bully without it getting physical. It just requires addressing him as an assertive man rather than a whining boy. do we have any indication that martin hasnt tried telling him to stop?
tennesseeboy Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 This whole thing is a mess. I'm just glad its the Dolphins mess and not the Bills' mess. I can't imagine Martin won't be back, assuming he's a good tackle prospect.
bills44 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I never suggested fighting. You can stand up to a bully without it getting physical. It just requires addressing him as an assertive man rather than a whining boy. I'm sure that Incognito really would have taken that well. He seems like such a well-adjusted chap. Fall 2002: Ejected from Nebraska’s game against Penn State for fighting. Was suspended for the first half of a game against Iowa State the following week. Spring 2003: Suspended by former Nebraska coach Frank Solich for unspecified reasons. Feb. 2004: Charged with three counts of assault stemming from a fight at a party. Found guilty of one misdemeanor assault charge after a three-day trial and paid a $500 fine. Sept. 2004: Suspended from Nebraska. Withdrew from university two weeks later. Two weeks after leaving Nebraska, enrolled at Oregon. Oct. 2004: Kicked off Oregon team. Coach Mike Bellotti said he failed to meet certain conditions. 2005-09: Played parts of five seasons with the Rams. In 44 games, he racked up 38 penalties, including seven for unnecessary roughness. Training camp 2006: Got into an altercation with Rams cornerback Dwight Anderson. The 6-foot-3, 320-pound Incognito and the 5-foot-10, 180-pound Anderson had to be separated twice. Nov. 2008: Criticized fans for not knowing how or when to cheer for a team that was 2-8 at the time. Taunted fans who were booing him during a game against the Bears. 2009: Was named “NFL’s dirtiest player” in a Sporting News poll of 99 players. That season, twice head-butted Titans players, and engaged in a verbal altercation with head coach Steve Spagnuolo. Was released two days later. After being released by St. Louis, he finished the year in Buffalo then signed with the Dolphins. Sept. 2012: Criticized by Houston’s Antonio Smith for dirty play. During a preseason game in 2013, an enraged Smith swung his helmet after being incited by Incognito, which earned Smith a three-week suspension. June 2013: Involved in an altercation in Miami night club that led to a trespass warning. Summer 2013: When talking about his time in St. Louis, admitted to NFL.com: “I mean, we’d have practice the next morning, and I’m out until all hours of the night, running the town. Drinking. Doing drugs. I was doing everything that a professional athlete should not be doing.” nypost.com/2013/11/05/how-richie-incognito-became-nfls-no-1-villain/ do we have any indication that martin hasnt tried telling him to stop? Not that I've read or heard. As an aside it would be interesting if he were gay. Stanford would have Martin, Jason Collins and Kwame Harris out. I don't know why I think that it is interesting but of all the professional athletes out of the closet that would be an extremely high percentage. Typically tolerance and intelligence are linked so maybe that has something to do with it. It is not as big of a deal in their social circle outside of the locker room. Just thinking out loud... Interesting point, #47.
BuffaloBob Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) and when it doesn't get better and you're backed in to a corner you will have to stand up for yourself. Whether it is subtle or timid or a punch in the nose it needs to happen at some point. Its natural reaction vs societal influence aka pussification Yeah, that's right. And Martin had done that, he might be facing assault charges and/or being sued for battery. I can tell you somewhere you haven't been, and the one place that is relevant, and that is an NFL locker room. I can very easily explain why Martin didn't go to those in authority. Incognito is essentially sanctioned by the very authority you claim he should have run to. Richie is on their freakin' Excellence Counsel or whatever that group was named to. He is a captain of the team. He was named the Good Guy award winner. So why on earth would you think that going to your boss and telling him your being harassed by this guy is really going to play? And how does running to the coach and telling on the bully going to play in the locker room? You think that's going to win this guy any fans in the room? I think not. This is like going to the warden to tell him an inmate guard the warden appointed is harassing him. How in the hell is that going to get you any where? Half the other guys are afraid of him, and half are his buddies because they secretly like what he's doing to Martin anyway. Stop pretending like you have any experience that could possibly lead you to have any idea what this situation was like for Martin. You can't see it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a legitimate basis. Edited November 5, 2013 by BuffaloBob
BADOLBILZ Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 NFL personnel question 'coward' Martin for not challenging Incognito Yeah, I think Martin's NFL career is all but over. I expect the Dolphins to release him as soon as the coast is clear. Time heals all wounds but I can't imagine there being enough time left, even in Martin's young career, to heal this wound enough for anyone to permit him in their lockerroom. Even if the players were indifferent......no exec wants a whistle blower in their organization. And no, that isn't a double entendre Captain Hindsight......that's what they call people who tell on their organization. CH didn't know who Howard Balzer was so....anyway, Incognito is just barely good enough that he might get another shot next season and be able to revive his career. If he were Doug Legursky it would be lights out.
l< j Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Incognito is essentially sanctioned by the very authority you claim he should have run to. Richie is on their freakin' Excellence Counsel or whatever that group was named to. He is a captain of the team. He was named the Good Guy award winner. Great and important point here. kj
papazoid Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Yeah, I think Martin's NFL career is all but over. I expect the Dolphins to release him as soon as the coast is clear. Time heals all wounds but I can't imagine there being enough time left, even in Martin's young career, to heal this wound enough for anyone to permit him in their lockerroom. Even if the players were indifferent......no exec wants a whistle blower in their organization. And no, that isn't a double entendre Captain Hindsight......that's what they call people who tell on their organization. CH didn't know who Howard Balzer was so....anyway, Incognito is just barely good enough that he might get another shot next season and be able to revive his career. If he were Doug Legursky it would be lights out. it's only "over" if Martin wants it over. no way the dolphins cut him before his 4 year deal is up, which doesn't end until after the 2015 season.
Big Turk Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 it's only "over" if Martin wants it over. no way the dolphins cut him before his 4 year deal is up, which doesn't end until after the 2015 season. He will have so much more money from.his lawsuits he won't need to play football again...the NFL and Dolphins are really going to be paying up for this one... They may think normal workplace laws don't apply to them but they will quickly find out just how they are in a court of law
dave mcbride Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Yeah, I think Martin's NFL career is all but over. I expect the Dolphins to release him as soon as the coast is clear. Time heals all wounds but I can't imagine there being enough time left, even in Martin's young career, to heal this wound enough for anyone to permit him in their lockerroom. Even if the players were indifferent......no exec wants a whistle blower in their organization. And no, that isn't a double entendre Captain Hindsight......that's what they call people who tell on their organization. CH didn't know who Howard Balzer was so....anyway, Incognito is just barely good enough that he might get another shot next season and be able to revive his career. If he were Doug Legursky it would be lights out. They're still gonna have to pay him for four years time. No way do they get out of that, and they'd be foolish to fight it. Btw, what he did wasn't really whistle-blowing, which usually refers to when an underling reports on management. He reported on a colleague for malicious harassment. To reiterate, that's not whistleblowing. I'm not saying he'll play again, but it won't be because of some generic dislike of whistleblowers; it'll be because NFL culture is about as retrograde as it gets in America.
Big Turk Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) They're still gonna have to pay him for four years time. No way do they get out of that, and they'd be foolish to fight it. Btw, what he did wasn't really whistle-blowing, which usually refers to when an underling reports on management. He reported on a colleague for malicious harassment. To reiterate, that's not whistleblowing. I'm not saying he'll play again, but it won't be because of some generic dislike of whistleblowers; it'll be because NFL culture is about as retrograde as it gets in America. At this point paying him his full contract is the least of their worries, trust me...their legal counsel are probably telling them just how f****d they are...two Harvard educated lawyers are his parents?? Might have been the absolute worst person to do that to in NFL history with the ramifications its going to lead to... They are effectively heading over Niagara Falls with no barrel... Edited November 5, 2013 by matter2003
Peter Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) But as others have pointed out too, what makes a person strong in real life is not necessarily what makes a person strong in a professional football setting. Anyone ask why so few NFL players and current Dolphins have unequivocally come to Martin's support. Everything his current teammates have said has been very subtle. If it was truly as bad as the stories that are written, I'm guessing there would be far more commentary from the Dolphins players. in the real world yes. In the locker room. No very much so. And Martin found himself in unfamiliar territory where his real world dynamics don't hold. Just like a fish out of water, Martin was already in a bad environment not condusive to his upbringing and raising. I have been in locker rooms as an athlete. If what is being reported was happening, someone on that team (someone with a "strong" character) should have put an end to it. Not all locker rooms are made up of !@#$s. What I suppose I am taking issue with is the comments that JM was a kitty or weak. I have read that on various sites. Perhaps the easiest thing for him to have done would have been to go with the flow. In a sense, he perhaps chose the option that required the most bravery. Although I anticipate that some will disagree, it has got to be hard to walk away and then attempt to change the culture of the team when no one was jumping up and down defending him - not players, not the coaching staff, and not the team. Edited November 5, 2013 by Peter
boyst Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Yeah, that's right. And Martin had done that, he might be facing assault charges and/or being sued for battery. I can tell you somewhere you haven't been, and the one place that is relevant, and that is an NFL locker room. I can very easily explain why Martin didn't go to those in authority. Incognito is essentially sanctioned by the very authority you claim he should have run to. Richie is on their freakin' Excellence Counsel or whatever that group was named to. He is a captain of the team. He was named the Good Guy award winner. So why on earth would you think that going to your boss and telling him your being harassed by this guy is really going to play? And how does running to the coach and telling on the bully going to play in the locker room? You think that's going to win this guy any fans in the room? I think not. This is like going to the warden to tell him an inmate guard the warden appointed is harassing him. How in the hell is that going to get you any where? Half the other guys are afraid of him, and half are his buddies because they secretly like what he's doing to Martin anyway. Stop pretending like you have any experience that could possibly lead you to have any idea what this situation was like for Martin. You can't see it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a legitimate basis. I am not ignoring your posts and responses. Just not responding to them.. I have been in locker rooms as an athlete. If what is being reported was happening, someone on that team (someone with a "strong" character) should have put an end to it. Not all locker rooms are made up of !@#$s. What I suppose I am taking issue with is the comments that JM was a kitty or weak. I have read that on various sites. Perhaps the easiest thing for him to have done would have been to go with the flow. In a sense, he perhaps chose the option that required the most bravery. Although I anticipate that some will disagree, it has got to be hard to walk away and then attempt to change the culture of the team when no one was jumping up and down defending him - not players, not the coaching staff, and not the team. he was, by all indications, odd man out. That teammates didn't recognize this makes me wonder why he was odd man out.
Recommended Posts