LancasterSteve Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 It's reported that Martin went to a hospital after leaving the Dolphins facility. He was placed on the Non-Football Injury List. There was/is/continues to be a reasonable basis for talking about Martin's mental health. What does it matter? FWIW, I don't believe this has been posted yet: http://profootballta...g-on-incognito/ "During last night’s edition of Football Night in America on NBC, former Patriots V.P. of player personnel and Chiefs G.M. Scott Pioli (who should be getting some credit for the talent he left for the new 9-0 regime in Kansas City) told Dan Patrick, ”I didn’t want [incognito] coming out [of college], and I don’t want him now.” Former Bucs and Colts coach Tony Dungy echoed that sentiment earlier in the hour on The Dan Patrick Show. Dungy explained that, when Incognito entered the draft in 2005, the Colts had him on the “DNDC” list, which means “do not draft because of character.” Why the hell did the Bills have this dirtbag on their team ?? I didn't like the move when the Bills signed Incognito because his psychopathic reputation was well known. When Incognito was released right at the end of the football season, I wondered if maybe something had happened in the Bills lockeroom.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 This is true. Lawrence Phillips has Incognito beat. So does OJ Simpson. And Jovan Belcher... I could go on. However, Incognito may have the edge on, for example, Terell Owens or Albert Haynesworth. How does TO end up in this group? He had a big mouth but did not try to physically or mentally hurt people either on or off the field.
Captain Caveman Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 yeah, I would agree. Some want to call him guilty and throw away the key. Others want decide his level of guilt bases on various factors. RI had no reason to behave the way he did, and that's what matters. Who is asking to "throw away the key"? He has been indefinitely suspended, and it seems like the Dolphins are cutting ties as soon as is practical. That seems appropriate. What do you think the appropriate response is? Also, re: jumping to conclusions, I think I'm misunderstanding your point. On the one hand, it seems like you're condemning people for rushing to judgement, on the other hand you are acknowledging that it seems Incognito is guilty of what's been described, and that regardless of what else happened with Martin or the Dolphins organization there is no excuse for what Incognito is accused of. Were you as critical of those rushing to judge Martin in the first 7 pages of the thread? It seemse you didn't have any trouble rushing to judgement yourself there. What are the odds that someone suffers from a mental disorder? Its no different in the NFL. Mental health needs to be addressed in this country. We wear pink for a cause that is very important but as much of a commercial fabrication as Christmas or Holloween. Instead it will be 10 years from now when something similar happens to the guy at a grocery store and police are called. He will end up tazed or shot and then will we still look at concusions as the cause?
Rob's House Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 How does TO end up in this group? He had a big mouth but did not try to physically or mentally hurt people either on or off the field. TO had the audacity to say what he thought (ex. "I love me some me") instead of sticking to the BS PC lines everyone else regurgitates, (ex. "I just want to help this team win games.")
Kirby Jackson Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 TO had the audacity to say what he thought (ex. "I love me some me") instead of sticking to the BS PC lines everyone else regurgitates, (ex. "I just want to help this team win games.") When I think OJ, I don't think TO. Incognito is part Haynesworth and part Riley Cooper mixed with the O'Doyle's from Billy Madison.
Pneumonic Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Why the hell did the Bills have this dirtbag on their team ?? Desperation perhaps?
Captain Caveman Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Very insightful. All we hear about is how guards should be mean and nasty. Incognito is an ideal guard under NFL standards. What's the Eric Wood quote about doing things on a football field that are severely illegal? You can do things on the football field that are severely illegal on the streets. To be fair, in the same interview he talks about flipping the switch on the field. It seems like he understands how to behave off of the field. Edited November 5, 2013 by Captain Caveman
boyst Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Who is asking to "throw away the key"? He has been indefinitely suspended, and it seems like the Dolphins are cutting ties as soon as is practical. That seems appropriate. What do you think the appropriate response is? Also, re: jumping to conclusions, I think I'm misunderstanding your point. On the one hand, it seems like you're condemning people for rushing to judgement, on the other hand you are acknowledging that it seems Incognito is guilty of what's been described, and that regardless of what else happened with Martin or the Dolphins organization there is no excuse for what Incognito is accused of. Were you as critical of those rushing to judge Martin in the first 7 pages of the thread? It seemse you didn't have any trouble rushing to judgement yourself there. there have been several here and many in the media ready to throw him away. I was not rushing to judgement with Martin or casting judgement. It is clear the guy broke down. He had enough. He stopped and quit on his team. Of course, that is understandable because by all evidence it seems his team did not stick up for him, nor the organization. Incognito is guilty of baf judgement and harassing a player. I do not know if the whole story is out yet... I hope it isn't. Its a hard story to wrap sense around. The guy was such a jerk he drove a guy to walking out from his employer and $$mm's. Yet, it was so bad and no one intervened? And this player was thought of as a leader enough to be on the special team council? That just boggles my mind - I don't know about anyone else's. Incognito's actions were surely facilitated somewhere, IMO. The best course of action is what I have said. Incognito is suspended. He will issue a statement. He may enter treatment. Then the team will release him wishing him the best. Miami has dirty hands. I am convinced of this, more so then people will realize. And circling back to Martin - he is a bit soft for the NFL according to all accounts but that doesn't mean he should get treated so harshly. I am not saying that the NFL needs to be full of barbarian hard ass goons, either. There needs to be professionalism in every business or team. Martin needs therapy as much as Incognito in my opinion... but I think 99% of this country needs therapy.
Gugny Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 there have been several here and many in the media ready to throw him away. I was not rushing to judgement with Martin or casting judgement. It is clear the guy broke down. He had enough. He stopped and quit on his team. Of course, that is understandable because by all evidence it seems his team did not stick up for him, nor the organization. Incognito is guilty of baf judgement and harassing a player. I do not know if the whole story is out yet... I hope it isn't. Its a hard story to wrap sense around. The guy was such a jerk he drove a guy to walking out from his employer and $$mm's. Yet, it was so bad and no one intervened? And this player was thought of as a leader enough to be on the special team council? That just boggles my mind - I don't know about anyone else's. Incognito's actions were surely facilitated somewhere, IMO. The best course of action is what I have said. Incognito is suspended. He will issue a statement. He may enter treatment. Then the team will release him wishing him the best. Miami has dirty hands. I am convinced of this, more so then people will realize. And circling back to Martin - he is a bit soft for the NFL according to all accounts but that doesn't mean he should get treated so harshly. I am not saying that the NFL needs to be full of barbarian hard ass goons, either. There needs to be professionalism in every business or team. Martin needs therapy as much as Incognito in my opinion... but I think 99% of this country needs therapy. "The guy was such a jerk he drove a guy to walking out from his employer and $$mm's. Yet, it was so bad and no one intervened?" Exactly. Everyone knows Incognito is a scum bag. But this ^^^ is the real issue.
BringBackFergy Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 http://espn.go.com/blog/buffalo-bills/post/_/id/3700/bills-may-have-short-leash-with-rodriguez Not that this guy is anything like Incognito, but Coach Marrone will be watching this kid closely. Hoping he has learned his lesson like Kiko did when he had his little run-in with the law. Perhaps he'll show up on Sunday with a chip on his shoulder. #LegendofEvanRodriguez
bills44 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 After being reminded of this, I gained a newfound respect for Kawika Mitchell:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/16/kawika-mitchell-sounds-off-on-incognito/
NoSaint Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) "The guy was such a jerk he drove a guy to walking out from his employer and $$mm's. Yet, it was so bad and no one intervened?" Exactly. Everyone knows Incognito is a scum bag. But this ^^^ is the real issue. its the obvious next step. did anyone explicitly point him in the direction of toughening martin up, or were they aware and still promoted him to leadership implicitly giving it a seal of approval... either way no good for the team Edited November 5, 2013 by NoSaint
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 there have been several here and many in the media ready to throw him away. I was not rushing to judgement with Martin or casting judgement. It is clear the guy broke down. He had enough. He stopped and quit on his team. Of course, that is understandable because by all evidence it seems his team did not stick up for him, nor the organization. Incognito is guilty of baf judgement and harassing a player. I do not know if the whole story is out yet... I hope it isn't. Its a hard story to wrap sense around. The guy was such a jerk he drove a guy to walking out from his employer and $$mm's. Yet, it was so bad and no one intervened? And this player was thought of as a leader enough to be on the special team council? That just boggles my mind - I don't know about anyone else's. Incognito's actions were surely facilitated somewhere, IMO. The best course of action is what I have said. Incognito is suspended. He will issue a statement. He may enter treatment. Then the team will release him wishing him the best. Miami has dirty hands. I am convinced of this, more so then people will realize. And circling back to Martin - he is a bit soft for the NFL according to all accounts but that doesn't mean he should get treated so harshly. I am not saying that the NFL needs to be full of barbarian hard ass goons, either. There needs to be professionalism in every business or team. Martin needs therapy as much as Incognito in my opinion... but I think 99% of this country needs therapy. You seem like a good guy but it seems like you're trying to hard to defend a scumbag. If this was his first act of being an idiot, I get it more. But this guy has been an idiot whereever he has gone. In a small way, this is the problem with America. People want to lump everyone into group because they have something in common (race, religion, gender, etc.) Fact is, a lot of different personalities play in the NFL. It's why it's so laughable when a NFL player commits a crime and some fans label the NFL as being filled with thugs, when 90% are doing the right thing. Martin is a weirdo because he is smart and doesn't bleed football? Maybe he talks "too white." It's silly ideas that create situations like this. Every person is different. But RI has and always will be a POS. He doesn't deserve defending.
Captain Caveman Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I was not rushing to judgement with Martin or casting judgement. It is clear the guy broke down. He had enough. He stopped and quit on his team. Of course, that is understandable because by all evidence it seems his team did not stick up for him, nor the organization. Your first post sounds very much like you were judging him. I'll take your word that that was not your intent.
boyst Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Your first post sounds very much like you were judging him. I'll take your word that that was not your intent. was less judging and critical then more an open belief that there was and still is larger issues at play. If it comes out that RI was flat out stalking him, threatening his life and tormenting a guy I have no doubt that Martin will need therapy. Contrary, if it turns out there were other "bullies" on the team and RI was just the biggest prick... then I have a to wonder a lot more what the heck was going on in that organization. If RI was singled out of a crowd, even if he was the worst, then I will be frustrated with the society I already know we are. No one stopped to think how their actions could have changed this in either example or any possibility. That's crap. RI is likely sitting somewhere today upset and saddened by what happened but still confused how he was misunderstood. Guys like him don't get it - and yes that is speculating - and they just continue to be the biggest thing around because they get away with it and do not know any better. They're enabled by their surroundings in most cases and become bigger jerks when no one puts them in their place. A large sense of entitlement is what we have gained as a society over the last few decades. A society that also coddles the weak and cheers the "recovered.". RI will be just another example. You seem like a good guy but it seems like you're trying to hard to defend a scumbag. If this was his first act of being an idiot, I get it more. But this guy has been an idiot whereever he has gone. In a small way, this is the problem with America. People want to lump everyone into group because they have something in common (race, religion, gender, etc.) Fact is, a lot of different personalities play in the NFL. It's why it's so laughable when a NFL player commits a crime and some fans label the NFL as being filled with thugs, when 90% are doing the right thing. Martin is a weirdo because he is smart and doesn't bleed football? Maybe he talks "too white." It's silly ideas that create situations like this. Every person is different. But RI has and always will be a POS. He doesn't deserve defending. pot. Kettle Kettle. Pot
NoSaint Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 was less judging and critical then more an open belief that there was and still is larger issues at play. If it comes out that RI was flat out stalking him, threatening his life and tormenting a guy I have no doubt that Martin will need therapy. Contrary, if it turns out there were other "bullies" on the team and RI was just the biggest prick... then I have a to wonder a lot more what the heck was going on in that organization. If RI was singled out of a crowd, even if he was the worst, then I will be frustrated with the society I already know we are. No one stopped to think how their actions could have changed this in either example or any possibility. That's crap. RI is likely sitting somewhere today upset and saddened by what happened but still confused how he was misunderstood. Guys like him don't get it - and yes that is speculating - and they just continue to be the biggest thing around because they get away with it and do not know any better. They're enabled by their surroundings in most cases and become bigger jerks when no one puts them in their place. A large sense of entitlement is what we have gained as a society over the last few decades. A society that also coddles the weak and cheers the "recovered.". RI will be just another example. i have almost no doubt that he was simply the biggest idiot in a crowd of idiots that created an idiotic culture of idiotic traditions and he was the one that took it a little further than the rest, and got caught doing it to the wrong person who made the idiotic behavior come to light.... you see it in all kinds of organizations. other players are still coming out saying they wish ritchie was back, or we all went through that kind of stuff.... go to your nearest college and talk to some of the fraternity members about things like hazing. i doubt your experiences would be that different than what we end up seeing come to light here over the long term. ritchie is getting singled out for a few reasons though, 1) hes been flatly named and no one else has, 2) he left a voicemail that can be held out in public 3) he has a history..... i think as you see the story evolve we will learn a lot more about the locker room culture of the dolphins, the names of others involved - you are already starting to get questions about guys like philbin and the position coach in the national media. honestly, the nflpa will want to point this all at coaches and not one of their own so there will be almost no doubt that this side of the story gets told.
MRW Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Contrary, if it turns out there were other "bullies" on the team and RI was just the biggest prick... then I have a to wonder a lot more what the heck was going on in that organization. If RI was singled out of a crowd, even if he was the worst, then I will be frustrated with the society I already know we are. No one stopped to think how their actions could have changed this in either example or any possibility. That's crap. Oh I think it's pretty clear that the Dolphins are really trying to pin this all on Incognito. I don't see how they can succeed though, after they gave him a leadership position and made him one of the faces of their franchise. The simple fact that Incognito was a locker room leader points to a deeper dysfunction on the team. I'm not going to waste any sympathy on Incognito, though. He was enabled by the ineptitude of Dolphins management, but he was still the one taking the actions that hurt Martin (at least as far as we can tell at this point).
Beerball Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Oh I think it's pretty clear that the Dolphins are really trying to pin this all on Incognito. I don't see how they can succeed though, after they gave him a leadership position and made him one of the faces of their franchise. The simple fact that Incognito was a locker room leader points to a deeper dysfunction on the team. I'm not going to waste any sympathy on Incognito, though. He was enabled by the ineptitude of Dolphins management, but he was still the one taking the actions that hurt Martin (at least as far as we can tell at this point). winner, winner, chicken dinner
GG Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 its the obvious next step. did anyone explicitly point him in the direction of toughening martin up, or were they aware and still promoted him to leadership implicitly giving it a seal of approval... either way no good for the team oooh, I see a juicy Aaron Sorkin movie plot about this. And too bad Stanley Kubrick is dead, so he can't direct it, but they can find a substitute. Who should we cast in it? How about Tom Cruise as the NFLPA investigator, Matthew Modine as Adam Schefter, Jack Nicholson as Philbin and Vincent Donofrio as Martin?
Rob's House Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 I feel sorry for Martin because he's weak, and I have sympathy for weak people who get bullied and don't have what it takes to stand up for themselves, but I also question whether he has the mental toughness to play in the NFL. And while I don't have sympathy for bullies it seems that b/c Martin was too big a kitty to stick up for himself, RI's actions are being amplified and blown out of proportion. I don't like bullies, but I'd wager RI's behavior in this case isn't that much worse than what you'd find in half the locker rooms around the league.
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