A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order....

[Bronc24]

Two things: First, Marrone doesn't call offensive plays, Hackett does. And second, a run was called and Tuel correctly audibled out of it to a pass when KC showed they were bringing everybody.

 

And that makes me wonder if instead of looking to hit Graham underneath, Tuel finds a wide open Stevie Johnson in the end zone and the Bills go up 17-3, is it still a bad call? Does execution not matter?

 

Exactly. I haven't heard the presser, but shouldn't Tuel's read have been the inside man? If he stays, pump then hit Stevie, if he goes, hit the slant. I don't get this why have the QB have to make a decision crap. It's the NFL. Your QB has to make reads.

[frogger]

I will state this over and over again, we are not too far from being in the elite. Health has kept us from having a winning record.

The offensive line played their butts off yesterday, giving up no sacks and giving CJ and Freddie a productive game. Buffalo scores 6 instead of the pick 6 with healthy EJ ...that would be the game.

Down by 14, KC would be in a panic and would be forced to throw, Smith is less than accurate...Buffalo wins, but its a team sport, so add capable back up to the list of off season needs.

[JohnnyBuffalo]

If this has been said already forgive me....276 rushing yards! The most in a loss since 1976! Other team's fans don't understand that it is simply not just a loss....it is the manner with which they lose that is so painful. I love the no quit of this team. Hard nosed football with most of these guys. Go Bills knock the snot out Pittsburgh!

[Webster Guy]

 

 

The Chiefs had 2 timeouts. The Bills could have forced them to use them.

 

As for the pick six, if Marrone didn't make that call, he should have. Great coaches take charge when it counts. This is what makes them great.

No. Great coaches hire great staff and delegate properly. Its your OC's call. The head coach has studied far less of the opponents defensive film than the OC. He's also working on special teams, defense etc.

 

Your OC is the guy. He called a good play, it was rushed by a rookie w no experience and he never saw the wide open touchdown.

[Gordio]

Bill-

 

I think you nailed it today. I was fortunate to watch the game and this was a game that was truly given away to the Chiefs.

 

With all running plays by Spiller and Jackson on that impressive drive early in the 2nd half, we go to a shotgun on 1st and 2nd down draw plays on the 1 yard line and get stuffed. Then we decide to pass on third and goal from the 1 and what happens? Bad throw, 101 yards the other way and a tie game. I was sick after that play as most of us I'm sure were. I'm sorry but what was the overall thinking on this?

 

Yes, you can defend our head coach and say, well Stevie was wide open and it was a horrible throw by Tuel to the other team. But the other side of the coin was, why would you throw the ball after you have ran so successfully that entire series?

 

Sorry but this is a game we EASILY could have won but was gift wrapped and given to the Chiefs.

 

I think that was the right call. Johnson was wide open in the back of the endzone. Tuel is starring right at him. Johnson even has his hand up in the air. Is it Marrone's/Hackett's fault that Tuel can't make the right read, a read that was starring him right in the face. I mean honestly, the guy is open, your staring right at him, get him the ball.

[thebandit27]

I love the hate for Gilmore still. The Chiefs could sustain nothing on offense because they couldn't push the ball down field and couldn't consistently pick up 3rd downs. Gilmore allowed 5-6 catches, all short, all in front of him where he moved forward and made the tackle easily. Bowe averaged less than 10 yards per reception with a long of 12 yards. You give up those types of receptions all day and make Alex Smith make 10+ plays to beat you. Gilmore, and the D, did a great job.

 

It boggles my mind that you continue your crusade against certain players but I expect it from you. It's like you expect the guy to never give up receptions and when he does you're right there to jump on him as if he sucks.

 

Bill does have some very, very strange axes to grind I'm afraid.

 

I agree with your assessment on Gilmore...not a very good game, but by no means did he hurt the team today with his play. In fact, I can't really criticize any part of the D...they were excellent.

 

The Bills for four straight weeks have turned the ball over and that has been the difference. Manuel has played it safe at the early part of the season and our turnovers were less. Both Thad and Tuel have not protected the ball. The OL gave Tuel all the time to throw the football.

 

Yes yes and yes...must protect the football

 

Was Stevie improvising on his route on the goal line i wonder?

The time they went for it in four down territory when they needed three yards and threw a thirty yard bomb.. Really?

Chandler and graham should be backups.

The officiating is starting to ruin the game.

Over a minute left, why didn't they kick a field goal then onside kick down by two scores?

They must have agreed to Sundays off for our new analytics guy.

 

No

Agree...should have called a timeout there IMO

Agree again

The officiating isn't good, but I haven't seen it cost anyone a game IMO

No idea...I'd have kicked and made it a one-score game and tried an onside kick...can't kick it away anyway with only 1 timeout, may as well give yourself a chance to win

Funny

[Cash]

Dude I've been questioning them trotting TJ Graham out there all season long. I just happen to think that your ultra-conservative end of the first half philosophy is a little archaic. FWIW, the week after the Miami game, Schopp and the Bulldog went on absolute tirade against a caller who thought the Bills should have run the ball with 1:47 left against Miami as you did. You're basically saying, "we can't score but we think you can so we're going to reduce your chances of scoring." Me, Schopp, Bulldog, Doug Marrone and most people who know anything about football would say, "hey Thad Lewis. WE have 1:47 left. that's plenty of time for US to score." You must have been really upset when Jauron got let go, I'm assuming?

 

Thank you. More on this below, but I'm glad we have a coaching staff that tries to win rather than tries not to lose. Tells me that *if* they get winning talent, they'll be able to win games with it. Bill from NYC/Dick Jauron ball gets you a record from 7-9 to 9-7 no matter who you've got.

 

This is it, to me. I think Tuel made a GOD AWFUL decision there, but the play call could well have been the right one as evidenced by the fact that SJ was wide-open.

 

It's truly a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation to me (in terms of how the coach looks afterwards). If you run up the middle again with Freddy (safest call) you risk getting called too conservative and weak, but you get three points if it doesn't work out. I would like to see them spread out and pitch it to Spiller with some pre-snap motion out of the backfield or a play-action screen there, but I might be wishing for too much. I just think there are other ways to play that than corner fade, up-the-middle run, or potentially fatal throws into traffic with an unseasoned rookie.

 

I like that they wanted 7, and I like that this team is trying to trust its young players (which we didn't see enough of with Manuel). Killer instinct has been in short supply with Jauron / Gailey. But against a stingy D and with a really untested guy running the show, they ended up with the absolute worst possible result: a swing of 10, possibly 14 points given what they didn't score there.

 

The bottom line to me is that a pick-6 in that situation is totally inexcusable, and everyone is to blame. I would've liked to see 3 straight QB sneaks, and would've been fine with a FG, because I think Tuel sucks. (But he should be able to execute a QB sneak.) My bigger issue with the playcalling, both in this game and in the Cincy game, is that they're too predictable. 1st down, smashmouth run into the line. 2nd down, same. If you're willing to go for it on 4th, then 3rd down is a repeat of 2nd down. Whatever your "last down" is, that's when you pass. I'd rather see playaction on 1st down, and if that doesn't work, then start running it. It's also clear that our O-line isn't good enough to shove around elite D-lines at the goal line when they know what we're doing. So we either need to fool them (running out of spread, counters, misdirection, etc.), or we need to try attacking different spots (outside runs, passes, QB runs, etc.).

 

For the record, I feel like the most unstoppable goal line plays are the QB sneak, any naked bootleg, a QB rollout with a receiver running with him in the end zone (run or pass option), and any play where the TE pretends to block and leaks out.

 

EDIT: I forgot to add the other disturbing thing about the playcalling: Per Hackett, on both the pick-6 and the 4th and 3 play, Graham was Tuel's first read. TJ Graham stinks, and even his defenders admit he's unreliable and has bad hands. He should never be the first read outside of 1st down. And he was the *only* read on the 4th and 3 play. If we're going to call a play where the QB is automatically throwing to 1 guy, that guy better be Stevie Johnson. I hope Hackett learns from his mistakes, but this love affair with TJ Graham is disturbing.

 

No. Great coaches hire great staff and delegate properly. Its your OC's call. The head coach has studied far less of the opponents defensive film than the OC. He's also working on special teams, defense etc.

 

Your OC is the guy. He called a good play, it was rushed by a rookie w no experience and he never saw the wide open touchdown.

 

In Bill's world, Marrone is not allowed in any of the defensive meetings and does not interact with defensive players. All the motivation and tone-setting that causes the D to play with such heart comes from Pettine, and Marrone is strictly forbidden from entering that territory. In fact, I believe the only thing Marrone does in Bill's world is call plays and throw challenge flags.

 

Now, in Bill's defense, there is an argument here that given the Bills' terrible QB situation, they should be playing more conservatively. And I don't totally disagree with that. (For example, if we had anyone better than Tuel, I would advocate going for it on 4th and 1, but I would have preferred a FG try if he hadn't turned the ball over.) But I prefer a coaching staff that's too aggressive over one that's too conservative. Why? First, every analysis of coaching decisions shows that coaches are in general too conservative, and that more aggressive play will lead to more wins in the long run.

 

Second, I feel like most coaches have their tendencies and stick to them -- i.e., they have a philosophy about the best way to win games. I think Marrone's philosophy is great, but it also needs a good QB. "But we don't have a good QB." True, but if Manuel becomes that good QB, you'll be glad our coach can take advantage of that.

 

Third, when coaches do change their tendencies, I feel like it's more likely for them to go more conservative than more aggressive. (Usually because of incessant criticism by out of touch sportswriters.) So I'd rather have a new/young guy start out too aggressive than too conservative. Ron Rivera is an exception here, but I think that's a pretty rare case.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Cash

[mannc]

But what about all the apologists who said this season was just a re-building year so it didn't matter how they handled the backup quarterback position?

 

The Bills aren't going in the right direction. They are going in the same direction they have been going for a long time.

 

It's hard to disagree with this, especially with the team sitting at 3-6. And yet, watching the game yesterday, things just seemed different. In the Jauron/Gailey years, the overmatched Bills would hang with a superior opponent for 3 or 3 and a half quarters before their QB turned the ball over on a crucial drive, or their exhausted defense just collapsed from being on the field so long. This team feels and looks different. Athough the result was the same, I did not get the feeling that the Bills were "playing not to lose." They were not physically overmatched against the team with the best record in the league; in fact, the defense looked positively dominant at times yesterday. With last year's 8th ranked QB in the PAC 12, the offense marched up and down the field against the No. 1 ranked defense in the NFL. How many other offenses would have performed as well with Jeff Teul at QB? Even though the record does not reflect it, I think this is the most talented Bills team we have had since 2000. There is one major piece missing though, and that is a competent QB, of course. Hopefully, the next seven games will give us an idea whether EJ is the answer there, or not. Another quarterback will have to be drafted this year; the next seven games will tell us which round he will be selected in.

[rockpile]

One thing is certain. You can agree or disagree with Bill from NYC, but his "random thoughts" generate a LOT of fan reaction and discussion on a wide variety of topics here. Thanks for that, Bill!

[TheBrownBear]

I don't understand all of the "cut Tuel" guys. It was his first NFL start and it happened to be against a 8-0 team with a good defense. He made a couple of terrible mistakes, but he otherwise played well. Showed good pocket presence and the ability to work through his progressions. I can see him being a quality backup in this league with a little more seasoning.

[34-78-83]

remember it's all black and white here on the board. Some one either sucks or they are great.

[yungmack]

Nine games in, does anyone know how many times the Bills have had a 4 down series inside the 10 yard line? It seems to me they have at least one a week. And every time Hackett calls the same series of plays. And every time they fail. Maybe it's just faulty memory, but that's what it appears like to me. We all know the old saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And when is Marrone going to sit him down and correct this insane "strategy"?

 

Someone on ESPN called the endzone interception "the worst interception in the history of interceptions." On the local sports news (Fred Roggin at 11 last night for those of you in LA), he was laughing about it. Freakin' embarassing. Oh, yeah, and the Jets beat a Saints team that dominated the Bills last week.

 

What a Monday this is.

[metzelaars_lives]

Nine games in, does anyone know how many times the Bills have had a 4 down series inside the 10 yard line? It seems to me they have at least one a week. And every time Hackett calls the same series of plays. And every time they fail. Maybe it's just faulty memory, but that's what it appears like to me. We all know the old saying that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. And when is Marrone going to sit him down and correct this insane "strategy"?

 

Someone on ESPN called the endzone interception "the worst interception in the history of interceptions." On the local sports news (Fred Roggin at 11 last night for those of you in LA), he was laughing about it. Freakin' embarassing. Oh, yeah, and the Jets beat a Saints team that dominated the Bills last week.

 

What a Monday this is.

Doing the same thing over and over again would have been handing it off to Fred Jackson up the middle for the third time in a row. And I hate that saying.

[Cash]

One thing is certain. You can agree or disagree with Bill from NYC, but his "random thoughts" generate a LOT of fan reaction and discussion on a wide variety of topics here. Thanks for that, Bill!

 

Agreed! Bill, I love your posts, and if I think you've gone off the deep end with your anti-Marrone/Gilmore rants, it's only because you're so sensible the rest of the time. Thanks for your contributions to this board!

[CardinalScotts]

Not sure why the hatred for Marrone, he reminds me a ton of a young Parcells= no excuses despite having a bucket to choose from. He will be the best coach we've ever had. How many guys can play their fourth stringer and an undrafted rookie and still be competitive? What's not to like - I find very very few things. His replay challenges he's been right the officials are wrong. What's the difference between David Tyree and the goodwin catch ?

[Coach Tuesday]

Bill is right about Gilmore - he was the worst player on defense yesterday. His technique was absolutely terrible. When he tried to jam Bowe at the line, he got abused. When he shaded off of him he got abused. He seemed winded. I don't know what's going on with him but it's troubling.

[metzelaars_lives]

Not sure why the hatred for Marrone, he reminds me a ton of a young Parcells= no excuses despite having a bucket to choose from. He will be the best coach we've ever had. How many guys can play their fourth stringer and an undrafted rookie and still be competitive? What's not to like - I find very very few things. His replay challenges he's been right the officials are wrong. What's the difference between David Tyree and the goodwin catch ?

Because Bill from NYC continues to grasp at straws to defend his points each week. Example: I disagreed with both of Marrone's challenges last week against New Orleans. Yet this week, is there anyone on planet Earth, Bills fan or otherwise, that thought throwing the challenge flag on that play wasn't the right thing to do? It was so close to being a catch and it was such a big play that you had to at least give it a shot there. And honestly, I thought it wouldn't get overturned, but I thought it should have. And then Bill is criticizing them for kicking a field goal with 1:47 left in the first half, instead of, what? I don't know. Burning more time or something? And yeah, Bowe had 60+ yards against Gilmore in man coverage, the first week he got his cast off. Let's cut the guy. His posts just get more and more preposterous every week.

[thebandit27]

Bill is right about Gilmore - he was the worst player on defense yesterday. His technique was absolutely terrible. When he tried to jam Bowe at the line, he got abused. When he shaded off of him he got abused. He seemed winded. I don't know what's going on with him but it's troubling.

 

He had a bad game, no doubt about it. He didn't really hurt the team with it, however, and he did make a few important plays out there (forcing the outside throw the lone deep ball they tried to Bowe and causing the break-up that nearly led to a Byrd INT).

 

He does need to drop the Jeckell-and-Hyde antics though...just play solid throughout.

[Cash]

Fortunately or unfortunately, I was only able to see the first half live, and had to follow the rest on my phone. I was definitely disappointed in Gilmore, because I expected him to shut Bowe down. Having said that, I did notice that Bowe did almost nothing in the 2nd half, and overall didn't do a ton of damage. I don't know if Gilmore stepped up in the 2nd half or what. I'm looking forward to seeing the All-22 breakdowns for this game -- I want to know just how many catches & yards Gilmore gave up. Someone posted that 22 of Bowe's yards came against not-Gilmore. I can live with 50 yards or so for the opposition's top receiver, but I expect better from Gilmore if that top receiver is as low-caliber as Dwayne Bowe (especially since Bowe is having a terrible season so far). I did notice that his coverage was perfect (with no help) on the deep ball to Bowe after Hughes' strip-sack, so it's not like he was awful.

[mannc]

He had a bad game, no doubt about it. He didn't really hurt the team with it, however, and he did make a few important plays out there (forcing the outside throw the lone deep ball they tried to Bowe and causing the break-up that nearly led to a Byrd INT).

 

He does need to drop the Jeckell-and-Hyde antics though...just play solid throughout.

I didn't think Gilmore had a bad game. Bowe is a big, fast, physical receiver. It is very hard to completely shut a guy like that down, especially if the offense is satisfied with the dink and dunk type stuff that Smith was throwing to Bowe yesterday. And the pass interference call against Gilmore was highly questionable, despite Dierdorf's suggestion to contrary.