Coach Tuesday Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Here is my thought: The Bills have won nine games this year. Unfortunately, six of those wins were against the Bills.
metzelaars_lives Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) OK, my mistake. They took only 14 seconds off the clock and left KC with 2 timeouts. Was this a smart move? Take potshots at me as you will but again, your koolaid drinking philosophy seems to leave you little room to question any move that the staff makes. This is fine with me, as long as you are comfortable as a sheep. Either way, be well and GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude I've been questioning them trotting TJ Graham out there all season long. I just happen to think that your ultra-conservative end of the first half philosophy is a little archaic. FWIW, the week after the Miami game, Schopp and the Bulldog went on absolute tirade against a caller who thought the Bills should have run the ball with 1:47 left against Miami as you did. You're basically saying, "we can't score but we think you can so we're going to reduce your chances of scoring." Me, Schopp, Bulldog, Doug Marrone and most people who know anything about football would say, "hey Thad Lewis. WE have 1:47 left. that's plenty of time for US to score." You must have been really upset when Jauron got let go, I'm assuming? Edited November 4, 2013 by metzelaars_lives
Chandler#81 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 This is essentially the same roster at most of the key positions as last year. Last years team had no fight. The staff last year even said how the other teams pushed them around and dictated what they did...thats right out of the mouth of the HC multiple times last year. This team was pathetic last few years. This team this year, with 3rd string and 4th strong QB's for half the games is averaging 22 PPG. Last years team 21.9 PPG and they had several games where we were blown out and got a couple garbage time TD's late to pad our scores. This team has not been blown out, this offense has been scoring despite SJ, CJ, Freddie being hobbled and 3rd string and 4th string QB's playing. So to say its ONLY the D is blind ranting with no factual points. This team is BETER AS A WHOLE, not just the defense and thats with a TON of injuries to critical players. To say its only Pettine and the D is pointless hate for the HC. Marrone and the whole staff have done a wonderful job changing the culture. We would have been blown out in many of these games under these conditions with Gailey here. In fact, I have no doubt we would not even have 3 wins, and we would not have been in position to win all these games like we have. I agree with everything here except the 1st line. Manuel/Lewis/ tOOl, Woods, Goodwin, Lawson, Alonso, Robey and both kickers. I'm sure I'm forgetting a couple contributors.. NOT essentially the same team and most of these new guys are the ones playing lights out and changing the culture, IMO.
Solomon Grundy Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Can we STOP with all the Easley talk!!
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 This comment really makes no sense. A legit QB would have come away with the TD in that play(SJ was open). As a coach, you either trust your players to be able to make the plays(like the long bomb earlier in the game), or you don't have them play. This is it, to me. I think Tuel made a GOD AWFUL decision there, but the play call could well have been the right one as evidenced by the fact that SJ was wide-open. It's truly a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation to me (in terms of how the coach looks afterwards). If you run up the middle again with Freddy (safest call) you risk getting called too conservative and weak, but you get three points if it doesn't work out. I would like to see them spread out and pitch it to Spiller with some pre-snap motion out of the backfield or a play-action screen there, but I might be wishing for too much. I just think there are other ways to play that than corner fade, up-the-middle run, or potentially fatal throws into traffic with an unseasoned rookie. I like that they wanted 7, and I like that this team is trying to trust its young players (which we didn't see enough of with Manuel). Killer instinct has been in short supply with Jauron / Gailey. But against a stingy D and with a really untested guy running the show, they ended up with the absolute worst possible result: a swing of 10, possibly 14 points given what they didn't score there.
BADOLBILZ Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Bottom line, OBDs management of the QB situation is costing us a chance at the playoffs. But what about all the apologists who said this season was just a re-building year so it didn't matter how they handled the backup quarterback position? The Bills aren't going in the right direction. They are going in the same direction they have been going for a long time. That doesn't mean the coaches here won't work or that EJ Manuel won't work out but there is just a fine line between winning and losing in the NFL and it often comes down to whether there is a full commitment to winning. The Bills don't have that. You don't come into the season with $20M in cap space and a rookie starting QB and Kevin Kolb and Jeff Tuel as your backup options. That is inexcusably dumb.
thewildrabbit Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 My biggest problem with this game was the play calling in allowing an un drafted FA QB to throw 39 times in his first NFL start!!! Against the #5 ranked defense, especially when the Bills RB's are averaging 6.1 YPC. This looked like good ole Chan Gailey calling shotgun pass plays thinking he has Tom Brady behind center This freaking moron OC should have run Spiller until he threw up, along with FJax, and Choice. There should have only been 20-25 pass attempts max for Tuel and 50+ rushes for the Bills RB's. Nathaniel Hackett stated he thought the Bills QB's were responsible for over 15 of the 28 QB sacks against the Bills this year. No freaking crap with 3 rookies at QB. Nothing like throwing the rookies under the bus. I'm done defending this complete moron. http://fansided.com/2013/11/02/bills-offensive-coordinator-blames-sacks-quarterbacks/ Chandler batted down a perfect pass thrown to him when he was wide open. He also got a false start penalty on that last series with the game on the line. The Bills do need a better TE.
Orton's Arm Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I dont get the Marrone hate from the OP....I see a TEAM gelling....much like the 87 then 88 teams. i think 86 Bills went 4-12, then the strike season was 87...right? marrone has the team doing alot of good things...hitting on more and more cylinders every week...Marrone DID get Pettine, the O got almost 500 yards with a 4 th string qb! Sheesh.... seriously what other team would be doing well with a rookie UDFA 4 deep at the helm....I am not down at all on these Bills I think next year is going to be ....whelp kinda like the 89 team I've heard this comparison several times. The difference between the late '80s teams and this team is that they had Jim Kelly; we have Manuel. Jim Kelly was a highly rated QB prospect--I don't think there was significant disagreement about whether he deserved to be a first round prospect. He became the only franchise QB in Bills' history. Compare that to Manuel. Some had him as a first round prospect. Others felt he was the second-, third-, or fourth-best QB in a QB-poor draft. Thus far he hasn't corrected the (very serious) weaknesses he demonstrated at the college level; and is a bottom-10 starting QB. There's a chance Manuel will improve, and will live up to the hopes the Bills had for him when they drafted him. There's also a chance his critics will be proved right. Until the gigantic question mark at the QB position is replaced with some kind of certainty, comparisons to the late '80s Bills are premature. As always, thanks to Bill from NYC for a great OP and great thread.
ganesh Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 The Bills for four straight weeks have turned the ball over and that has been the difference. Manuel has played it safe at the early part of the season and our turnovers were less. Both Thad and Tuel have not protected the ball. The OL gave Tuel all the time to throw the football.
TC in St. Louis Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 The false start call on Chandler was total nonsense. I'm not sure what part of his nose wiggled, but his body didn't and his head may have sagged a quarter of an inch. So KC"s line starts jumping up and down, and the flag comes out. How about that 15 yarder on our guy for unnecessary roughness when he nicked the guy as he was trying to avoid him? Nonsense.
FireChan Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I've said this numerous times, but I'll say it again. Why release Tarvaris Jackson in June, before training camp and preseason where injuries are bound to happen?(Especially to injury prone players-ala Kevin Kolb) It was a stupid decision and it probably cost us a shot at the playoffs. We thought Kolb was better, which he probably was, and we wanted to give TJ the chance to join a new squad. We didn't want to keep the guy and ruin his NFL career. We did him a favor. Hurt the FO for being nice guys. Hey Bill, I got a question. You always defend Searcy for messing up saying he's got a ton of heart, but TJ Graham runs 99 yards to catch a guy he has no chance of getting to in time, and he gets no credit. Why is that?
Bronc24 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I've heard this comparison several times. The difference between the late '80s teams and this team is that they had Jim Kelly; we have Manuel. Jim Kelly was a highly rated QB prospect--I don't think there was significant disagreement about whether he deserved to be a first round prospect. He became the only franchise QB in Bills' history. Compare that to Manuel. Some had him as a first round prospect. Others felt he was the second-, third-, or fourth-best QB in a QB-poor draft. Thus far he hasn't corrected the (very serious) weaknesses he demonstrated at the college level; and is a bottom-10 starting QB. There's a chance Manuel will improve, and will live up to the hopes the Bills had for him when they drafted him. There's also a chance his critics will be proved right. Until the gigantic question mark at the QB position is replaced with some kind of certainty, comparisons to the late '80s Bills are premature. As always, thanks to Bill from NYC for a great OP and great thread. Maybe we could bring back Trentative. Our backs can catch.
bowery4 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Can we STOP with all the Easley talk!! So you want to stay with TJ (that fumble IMO turned the tide at that point as much as the pick 6)? I think it is his turn to sit. Easely should get a chance, really. I wish he was not Woods back up, I know he dropped one but how many has TJ dropped. Let's try him for a while Tuel played okay (considering all the circumstances that lead up to this point) but our QB situation was a FO eff up from the T. Jackson's release on but saying that he probably would have gotten injured too, the way this year has played out. I take back saying that I would have been happy having Alex Smith, Tuel out played him if you take away the 101 yard play. He does have Joe Capp ball in his sac a malices that needs to go but for a UFDA in his first start? People are being too critical, what did you expect? There is a lot about Hackett's play calling said in this thread, IMO he has had some rookie mistakes too. I still hold out hope he improves. They still need to slow down at times they don't, that kind of gets to me more than some other things (seeing working screens was a relief). Last thought, that was a catch, that is a very bad rule change they made and that play is why, BS! As for Marrone, this team has a serious D (he can be given credit for that as much as credit for his OC) and play their hearts out, this game was UGLY, yes it was. They will get better, half the team is playing better the other half is really young and has no real QB. Very last thought, I hope they find a way to keep Byrd here. He is good (maybe not the best and highest paid but I want him here anyway) we don't need another need when we have a good player already, make a hole, fill a hole is stupid. DW find a way, he is learning this D and getting better, when he has it down more, he will be worth the cost. JMHO. Edited November 4, 2013 by bowery4
Big C Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 We thought Kolb was better, which he probably was, and we wanted to give TJ the chance to join a new squad. We didn't want to keep the guy and ruin his NFL career. We did him a favor. Hurt the FO for being nice guys. Injury history should have been the deciding factor. Kolb is injured all the time and I don't think the drop off (if there was any) would outweigh that concern.
BB2004 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Bill- I think you nailed it today. I was fortunate to watch the game and this was a game that was truly given away to the Chiefs. With all running plays by Spiller and Jackson on that impressive drive early in the 2nd half, we go to a shotgun on 1st and 2nd down draw plays on the 1 yard line and get stuffed. Then we decide to pass on third and goal from the 1 and what happens? Bad throw, 101 yards the other way and a tie game. I was sick after that play as most of us I'm sure were. I'm sorry but what was the overall thinking on this? Yes, you can defend our head coach and say, well Stevie was wide open and it was a horrible throw by Tuel to the other team. But the other side of the coin was, why would you throw the ball after you have ran so successfully that entire series? Sorry but this is a game we EASILY could have won but was gift wrapped and given to the Chiefs.
FireChan Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 (edited) Injury history should have been the deciding factor. Kolb is injured all the time and I don't think the drop off (if there was any) would outweigh that concern. So we should have cut Kolb and kept TJ, because a Kolb had 2 concussions and a rib injury in 5 years in the NFL? After having played behind two of the worst offensive lines in the NFL? Even though Kolb had done more in his career, had more wins and better numbers consistently than TJ? And outplayed him in OTA's? That's a little hindsight-fueled, no? We wanted EJ. Having two vet's in front of EJ in the depth chart leeching all of the coaches time would've been fool-hardy. If EJ gets hurt again in the next 5 years, should he be given up on? Edited November 4, 2013 by FireChan
BUNCH OF MULARKEY Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Was Stevie improvising on his route on the goal line i wonder? The time they went for it in four down territory when they needed three yards and threw a thirty yard bomb.. Really? Chandler and graham should be backups. The officiating is starting to ruin the game. Over a minute left, why didn't they kick a field goal then onside kick down by two scores? They must have agreed to Sundays off for our new analytics guy.
Wayne Cubed Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Bill, I usually enjoy reading your after game thoughts, except it seems lately you have been letting your emotions get the better of you. You question Gilmore and ask when should we expect him to produce? In only his 4th game back, 2nd game without a cast on his wrist, you are acting like he didn't miss most of the preseason and 6 games. The kid is just regaining his form after missing lots of time. Lets not forget, he kept all the plays in front of him and didn't allow Bowe to score. I couldn't care less if Bowe gets yards from dink and dunk plays, which is exactly what he was getting. Giving up 45 yards to Bowe, I would consider a pretty good day for Gilmore (67 yards total minus 22 yards where Gilmore wasn't covering). I don't understand the hate for Marrone. I feel as if you are holding him to the same standards as a veteran HC. He's been a HC for all of 9 games. He has had his team in EVERY single game. Which is more than you can say about any of the other rookie HC's. The team has been crippled at times by injuries, especially at the most important position QB. I just can't agree with you on your assessment.
tennesseeboy Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I agree with almost everything except Marrone. The pick six was poor execution by a rookie. I agree that Tuel just doesn't show arm strength enough yet to be an nfl qb but I see potential. Discount all those dropped passes and he looked ok. As usual bill you are spot on on the other points
Campy Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 10) Help me here.....was there a worse call in NFL history than the one which resulted in a 101 yard pick six? I hate to be to critical of Saint Marrone. Wait..... this is a lie. He is an amateur. A rank amateur. He hasn't a clue. Not one freaking clue. Two things: First, Marrone doesn't call offensive plays, Hackett does. And second, a run was called and Tuel correctly audibled out of it to a pass when KC showed they were bringing everybody. And that makes me wonder if instead of looking to hit Graham underneath, Tuel finds a wide open Stevie Johnson in the end zone and the Bills go up 17-3, is it still a bad call? Does execution not matter?
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