C.Biscuit97 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Bill is right about Gilmore - he was the worst player on defense yesterday. His technique was absolutely terrible. When he tried to jam Bowe at the line, he got abused. When he shaded off of him he got abused. He seemed winded. I don't know what's going on with him but it's troubling. Yeah, Bowe completely owned Gilmore to the tune of 67 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. I swear folks just hate to hate. Bowe is thought of as one of the best and most physical wrs in the NFL. Gilmore, less than a month after wrist surgery, covered him one on one and gave up less than 70 yards. Face it, it was a bad day to hate on the folks he normally hates on (cough, Spiller, cough).
thebandit27 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I didn't think Gilmore had a bad game. Bowe is a big, fast, physical receiver. It is very hard to completely shut a guy like that down, especially if the offense is satisfied with the dink and dunk type stuff that Smith was throwing to Bowe yesterday. And the pass interference call against Gilmore was highly questionable, despite Dierdorf's suggestion to contrary. I agree that the PI call was pretty flimsy. I don't say Gilmore's bad game is so much a reflection of the yards/receptions surrendered in his coverage, but rather that he lost technique and got turned around an unusually high number of times. Yes, Bowe's a good WR, so that's a good point. I guess I'm not used to seeing Gilmore struggle with his technique as often as he did yesterday. He needs to get that shored up. You are right; he didn't hurt the team yesterday with his play.
Coach Tuesday Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Yeah, Bowe completely owned Gilmore to the tune of 67 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. I swear folks just hate to hate. Bowe is thought of as one of the best and most physical wrs in the NFL. Gilmore, less than a month after wrist surgery, covered him one on one and gave up less than 70 yards. Face it, it was a bad day to hate on the folks he normally hates on (cough, Spiller, cough). Or they just have a different opinion than you... amazing, I know, since you seem to know everything. He was open more than he was thrown to. Gimore was getting handled. That's what I saw. I've never "hated" on him before - I thought he was a great pick and I thought he was well on his way to being a shutdown corner. He looked terrible yesterday. That's my opinion. There is no agenda. You need to lower the testosterone level a bit.
CBD Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Because Bill from NYC continues to grasp at straws to defend his points each week. Example: I disagreed with both of Marrone's challenges last week against New Orleans. Yet this week, is there anyone on planet Earth, Bills fan or otherwise, that thought throwing the challenge flag on that play wasn't the right thing to do? It was so close to being a catch and it was such a big play that you had to at least give it a shot there. And honestly, I thought it wouldn't get overturned, but I thought it should have. And then Bill is criticizing them for kicking a field goal with 1:47 left in the first half, instead of, what? I don't know. Burning more time or something? And yeah, Bowe had 60+ yards against Gilmore in man coverage, the first week he got his cast off. Let's cut the guy. His posts just get more and more preposterous every week. Slowing down their offense to allow less time remaining for the Chiefs offense. Perhaps running on 2nd down and goal to allow the clock to run or force a time out.
thebandit27 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Or they just have a different opinion than you... amazing, I know, since you seem to know everything. He was open more than he was thrown to. Gimore was getting handled. That's what I saw. I've never "hated" on him before - I thought he was a great pick and I thought he was well on his way to being a shutdown corner. He looked terrible yesterday. That's my opinion. There is no agenda. You need to lower the testosterone level a bit. I do think Gilmore is an excellent corner, and I think he looked lousy yesterday. It happens; guys have bad games. The good news is that if that's the worst he allows to happen on a bad day, then he's doing well for himself. Even on a bad day, he handled his business on the deep shot(s) and nearly caused a turnover.
HankBulloughMellencamp Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I didn't think Gilmore had a bad game. Bowe is a big, fast, physical receiver. It is very hard to completely shut a guy like that down, especially if the offense is satisfied with the dink and dunk type stuff that Smith was throwing to Bowe yesterday. And the pass interference call against Gilmore was highly questionable, despite Dierdorf's suggestion to contrary. Thank you ... what we have in #24 is a gifted young shutdown corner-in-the-making who is very savvy when the ball is in the air, and who competes on every single ball. Pettine will make him a star before long. But where we have evolved on these TBD pages is the land of unrealistic expectations ... coupled with, in some cases, a lack of understanding on how pass defense is played. It seems as though people want to keep Gilmore's performance simple in their mind ... they put Gilmore on Bowe, so therefore, any catch by Bowe is a failure by Gilmore Incorrect assumption. Without seeing the all-22 or knowing the coverage they were in, it's hard to tell who screwed up on any given play. Anytime we are in a zone-type coverage, Gilmore may have only truly had Bowe to his deep third, and may have protected it well enough that Bowe cut the route off and took what was available underneath. I am not saying all of Bowe's catches were on underneath zone stuff. What I am saying is this: no one but Pettine and the players know for sure what the defensive design was. And it does not have to mean we played zone across the board ... as crazy as Pettine has been with bringing overload pressure, it could be man to one side, zone to the other, or something crazy like that. Bowe made a few catches, but did not do much damage. To deduce that Gilmore is overrated on his 3rd game back from a significant injury is asinine
34-78-83 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Regardless of what we all think good or bad, I am certain that the coaches will take Bowe coming up with <70 yds receiving, under 10 per catch and no Td's against Gilmore w/ no help every time. Could he have done better? sure...without question.
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Or they just have a different opinion than you... amazing, I know, since you seem to know everything. He was open more than he was thrown to. Gimore was getting handled. That's what I saw. I've never "hated" on him before - I thought he was a great pick and I thought he was well on his way to being a shutdown corner. He looked terrible yesterday. That's my opinion. There is no agenda. You need to lower the testosterone level a bit. He manned up on arguably a top 10 wr (though Alex Smith is killing him this year) and held him to 70 yards and less than 10 ypc and he's not even 100%. I really don't get what some folks chose to get mad at. How anyone can find fault in the D or Gilmore is beyond me.
SactoBillFan Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 Can't agree with the Marrone/Gilmore beefs. Bottom line turnovers handed the game to KC. The pick six almost made me puke.
jumbalaya Posted November 4, 2013 Posted November 4, 2013 I like what we are getting from Robey at CB. A lot of Jabari Greer in this guy. Which is a shame because as sure as I am writing this we will let him walk in a few years.
Bill from NYC Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) Yeah, Bowe completely owned Gilmore to the tune of 67 yards and less than 10 yards a catch. I swear folks just hate to hate. Bowe is thought of as one of the best and most physical wrs in the NFL. Gilmore, less than a month after wrist surgery, covered him one on one and gave up less than 70 yards. Face it, it was a bad day to hate on the folks he normally hates on (cough, Spiller, cough). This post is nonsense. I heaped praise on Spiller for his game on Sunday. As for Gilmore, a recent post shows PFF agreeing with me. You, by jumping all over me for having opinions, are doing pretty much what you accuse me of. You seem to have preconceived notions on what I say. It would be like me blasting you week after week and reminding every poster of your current, and long time praise of Dick Jauron. Who knows? Perhaps one day you will change your mind about your jobless football hero. I think he was a disaster, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. As for Gilmore, I would like more from a #10 selection in an NFL draft. As a Bills Fan yes, I AM a tad gun shy of wasted resources. You know what I mean.....picks like Maybin, Whitner, and other selections by your football icon Dick Jauron. If and when Gilmore comes around I will be as happy as you, and will talk all day about how he wins us a game, or better yet games. Edited November 5, 2013 by Bill from NYC
MDH Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 (edited) If and when Gilmore comes around I will be as happy as you, and will talk all day about how he wins us a game, or better yet games. He has come around, which is the point people make to you. The fact that you haven't noticed it makes people think you're loathe to admit a mistake. Much like you I believe in building teams from the lines out and I'm generally not happy when the Bills do it otherwise. After a rough start last year the guy has been fantastic for a young corner. He's made me a believer when I wasn't at first. He's aggressive, which leads to more penalties than you'd like but for the most part he shuts guys down. I don't get why you don't see it. Edited November 5, 2013 by MDH
Bill from NYC Posted November 5, 2013 Author Posted November 5, 2013 He has come around, which is the point people make to you. The fact that you haven't noticed it makes people think you're loathe to admit a mistake. Much like you I believe in building teams from the lines out and I'm generally not happy when the Bills do it otherwise. After a rough start last year the guy has been fantastic for a young corner. He's made me a believer when I wasn't at first. He's aggressive, which leads to more penalties than you'd like but for the most part he shuts guys down. I don't get why you don't see it. I admitted a mistake about A. Williams in the OP. If you recall, when we drafted him the team that went after us traded their pick in round 2 and got a first in the following season. Now, he looks VERY good and I sing his praises. I also do admit that I care a lot where players are drafted. I think that most of us do. For instance, who do you focus on more, Gilmore or Moats? We have pros making draft decisions and some are mind boggling, but I still hang onto the right to expect a great deal from a top 10 pick. People like you and I are fanatics. We love this team and have too much invested in it. Want proof? It's 5 AM. I work at 7:30 and am drinking coffee and talking to you about the Bills lol. Maybe we can agree to disagree about not what Gilmore CAN be, but where he is now. And, maybe my expectations from a #10 ARE too high. You be the judge. What I do promise is that when he makes a play and ices a game for us, my praise for him will be as loud as any poster here. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JM57 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Usually I disagree with Bill about Gilmore. Sunday he had a very rough day. Dwayne Bowe is a pretty big guy. I'm not sure he has a reputation for being overly physical. But to me it seems the Chiefs saw on film that Gilmore wasn't quite himself yet and coached Bowe to go right AT Gilmore. Battle with him. Make him test that arm and wrist. Bowe won. Gilmore didn't have use of that hand or arm for almost 8 weeks. That's a whole lot of lost strength. It should improve week to week but it was obvious he's not 100% in that department
YOOOOOO Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Look Gilmore didn't have a good game on Sunday, but the way this post reads you'd think Bowe had 8 catches for 150yds...
thewildrabbit Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Fortunately or unfortunately, I was only able to see the first half live, and had to follow the rest on my phone. I was definitely disappointed in Gilmore, because I expected him to shut Bowe down. Having said that, I did notice that Bowe did almost nothing in the 2nd half, and overall didn't do a ton of damage. I don't know if Gilmore stepped up in the 2nd half or what. I'm looking forward to seeing the All-22 breakdowns for this game -- I want to know just how many catches & yards Gilmore gave up. Someone posted that 22 of Bowe's yards came against not-Gilmore. I can live with 50 yards or so for the opposition's top receiver, but I expect better from Gilmore if that top receiver is as low-caliber as Dwayne Bowe (especially since Bowe is having a terrible season so far). I did notice that his coverage was perfect (with no help) on the deep ball to Bowe after Hughes' strip-sack, so it's not like he was awful. The Chiefs QB only threw for 124 yards, and the Bills D only allowed 3 FG's on offense in that game. The defense, nor any player on it was the problem against the chiefs. Dunno why anyone is even bringing up the defense. It was allowing the game to be put in the hands of an undrafted FA QB, and then blaming him when he fails. Wonder what changes when the FO runs that thru their new analytic dept?
JM57 Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Look Gilmore didn't have a good game on Sunday, but the way this post reads you'd think Bowe had 8 catches for 150yds... Bowe had season highs in catches and yards....so it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows unfortunately
MDH Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Bowe had season highs in catches and yards....so it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows unfortunately If a "bad" game by Gilmore is 7 catches for 67 yards (and that's if you tag Gilmore for every single reception) I'll take it. Nothing Bowe did hurt the Bills and Gilmore kept him in front of him and wrapped him up quickly after each catch. Those types of plays aren't going to lose games and if that's "bad" then I'm happy.
ganesh Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 Look Gilmore didn't have a good game on Sunday, but the way this post reads you'd think Bowe had 8 catches for 150yds... +1. Bowe had minimal impact on this game. He had very little yards after catch on those 6 catches. I thought Fasano had a bigger impact in moving the chains.
Coach Tuesday Posted November 5, 2013 Posted November 5, 2013 If a "bad" game by Gilmore is 7 catches for 67 yards (and that's if you tag Gilmore for every single reception) I'll take it. Nothing Bowe did hurt the Bills and Gilmore kept him in front of him and wrapped him up quickly after each catch. Those types of plays aren't going to lose games and if that's "bad" then I'm happy. Maybe so - but that's not what you spend a first round pick on. Drayton Florence could give you that kind of production. Again, it's hopefully an abberation - it was by far the worst I've seen Gilmore play, and I have every reason to think it was a fluke. But let's not disguise it as a good or even acceptable performance. The only reason Bowe didn't hurt us was that Alex Smith was throwing him the ball. You can't afford to play cornerback like that most weeks.
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