FCC proposes ending sports blackouts

[Kirby Jackson]

 

Yeah if you don't want to see the game, and are single or leave the family home. . This year Bills ticket prices range from $225 to $720 in regular seating areas and from $1278 to $2790 in club seat areas. So if you take the average of just the regular seats, that's $472.50 per seat. There are 5 members in my family that I prefer watching games with, so that makes my cost $2362.50. Call it $100 for parking and ignore incidentals like gas (I live in Rochester) and food/drink I am at $2462.50. Could I budget for that, sure. But when I analyze the situation, I can't for the life of me come up with many reasons why I would. And I can always find good uses for that kind of money elsewhere.

 

The numbers don't look so bad when you take the cheapest ticket and assume you are only buying one. Not everyone is in that situation.

 

I agree, the point I am trying to make is that you CAN do it for cheap. Which to me negates the price. If you choose that you would rather sit in a certain area or watch with certain people obviously the cost goes up. That is a different argument than tickets are too much.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Kirby Jackson

[CodeMonkey]

I agree, the point I am trying to make is that you CAN do it for cheap. Which to me negates the price. If you choose that you would rather sit in a certain area or watch with certain people obviously the cost goes up. That is a different argument than tickets are too much.

So your point is if you want to go by yourself (or at least only buy one ticket) and sit in a seat with a view such that you can't see half of the game you can do it for cheap and that negates price concerns? I strongly disagree. I suppose I could go to a movie theater alone and split the cost of a ticket with someone and only watch half the movie. Doesn't mean I'd ever want to do it.

 

FWIW I personally don't think $500 for a season ticket is a bad deal. My reasons for not wanting to go to games are not (or at least not entirely) monetarily based.

 

But I have no problems agreeing to disagree.

Edited November 6, 2013 by CodeMonkey

[Kirby Jackson]

So your point is if you want to go by yourself (or at least only buy one ticket) and sit in a seat with a view such that you can't see half of the game you can do it for cheap and that negates price concerns? I strongly disagree. I suppose I could go to a movie theater alone and split the cost of a ticket with someone and only watch half the movie. Doesn't mean I'd ever want to do it.

 

FWIW I personally don't think $500 for a season ticket is a bad deal. My reasons for not wanting to go to games are not (or at least not entirely) monetarily based.

 

But I have no problems agreeing to disagree.

 

I am probably not articulating it well. When we were just out of college a group of us had bought seats in the rockpile (which I believe were $250). I was making $8 an hour at that point. We would split up parking and drink and eat in the parking lot. It cost me about $40 total per game (including my ticket). I am in a different place now but I never found it price of tickets to be the reason that I could not attend. If I want to experience the game in a certain manner (ie club seats) than I can see it as a hinderance but again that is a different arguement. "It is too expensive to sit in the club and that is the only place that I would sit" is different.

 

I am very defensive on this because I think that the Bills have done a great job of keeping the team accessible to the general public. As I said, I was a Season Ticket Holder on an $8 an hour job (and not alone). That is not the case in all/any NFL markets. Attend a game in New England and you will see nothing but people using their companies seats. Eventually, the Bills are going to have to find ways to generate more nonshared revenue to compete with the larger markets but not at this point.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Kirby Jackson

[bbb]

I am probably not articulating it well. When we were just out of college a group of us had bought seats in the rockpile (which I believe were $250). I was making $8 an hour at that point. We would split up parking and drink and eat in the parking lot. It cost me about $40 total per game (including my ticket). I am in a different place now but I never found it price of tickets to be the reason. If I want to experience the game in a certain manner (ie club seats) than I can see it as a hinderance but again that is a different arguement. "It is too expensive to sit in the club and that is the only place that I would sit" is different.

 

I am very defensive on this because I think that the Bills have done a great job of keeping the team accessible to the general public. As I said, I was a Season Ticket Holder on an $8 an hour job (and not alone). That is not the case in all NFL markets. Attend a game in New England and you will see nothing but people using their companies seats. Eventually, the Bills are going to have to find ways to generate more nonshared revenue to compete with the larger markets but not at this point.

 

You're exactly right on this...........He would prefer they play the games in a studio.

[CodeMonkey]

You're exactly right on this...........He would prefer they play the games in a studio.

If I am the "he" then I don't care where they play the games, studio or otherwise. My enjoyment level is considerably higher when I can watch at home and at the time of my choosing. That's just my personal preference. Kirby and I were just discussing the economics of it is all.

[John Gianelli]

Would they please ban whiteouts?

[CodeMonkey]

Would they please ban whiteouts?

I think the people in attendance Sunday did that on their own.

[Orton's Arm]

I think its bull **** that the citizens of western ny are taxed to help support the bills and their stadium. And then during a blackout the same tax payers are not able to watch said team on tv. Wtf crap is that. That's so dirty.

 

Well said. The purpose of blackouts is to reduce competition between ticket sales and television viewing. The reason for reducing competition is to allow NFL teams to increase their ticket prices; without fans fighting back by watching games on television instead of at the stadium. Higher ticket prices mean more money for millionaire players and billionaire owners, and less money for fans. Given that the NFL is a football monopoly, it's not clear why they should be allowed to artificially decrease competition in this way.

[bbb]

If I am the "he" then I don't care where they play the games, studio or otherwise. My enjoyment level is considerably higher when I can watch at home and at the time of my choosing. That's just my personal preference. Kirby and I were just discussing the economics of it is all.

 

You should probably really save time by just waiting for the video yearbook to come out and just get all the highlights of the season an hour or so.

[BigPappy]

That makes sense in every way. Unfortunately some things will never become reality when there's too much money at stake for the high ups in the world.

This is beyond true iEat_Phins. Broadcast companies are Billions of Dollars industry. They have TONS of money off of commercial adds that play during games. There is no way they let the FCC reverse the Black Out rules for NFL games.

 

every stadium will look like that on game day if the blackout rules go away

I strongly disagree. Your die hard fans that regularly attend games will continue to attend games. Same goes for your season ticket holders. The Black Out rule never has effected them because they attend as many games as they can. Every team has these types of fans and they will never go away.

 

The one thing most people don't get is now a day's with the Money NFL teams make, a very small percentage of it is in ticket sales and concessions. I remember reading an article online( I don't remember where), but it was on this very topic and it said that less then 20%(if i remember correctly) of the money made by teams come from ticket sales and concessions.

Selling seats is not as important to teams anymore, at least money wise, it not. They fill the stadiums for the atmosphere. The sold out crowds of screaming fans getting into the game energizes the team.

 

BigPappy

Edited November 7, 2013 by BigPappy

[Orton's Arm]

 

This is beyond true iEat_Phins. Broadcast companies are Billions of Dollars industry. They have TONS of money off of commercial adds that play during games. There is no way they let the FCC reverse the Black Out rules for NFL games.

 

 

I strongly disagree. Your die hard fans that regularly attend games will continue to attend games. Same goes for your season ticket holders. The Black Out rule never has effected them because they attend as many games as they can. Every team has these types of fans and they will never go away.

 

The one thing most people don't get is now a day's with the Money NFL teams make, a very small percentage of it is in ticket sales and concessions. I remember reading an article online( I don't remember where), but it was on this very topic and it said that less then 20%(if i remember correctly) of the money made by teams come from ticket sales and concessions.

Selling seats is not as important to teams anymore, at least money wise, it not. They fill the stadiums for the atmosphere. The sold out crowds of screaming fans getting into the game energizes the team.

 

BigPappy

 

> There is no way [broadcast companies] let the FCC reverse the Black Out rules for NFL games.

 

If a Bills game gets blacked out in Western New York, or a Dolphins game gets blacked out in Miami, how does that help broadcast companies? Blackouts will typically mean fewer people watching NFL games on t.v., and that hurts broadcast companies. The purpose of blackouts is to allow NFL teams to charge highly inflated prices for tickets and concessions, without having to worry about competition from television. Blackouts do not help broadcast companies.

[Ramius]

As Pergament points out in the article (that apparently nobody read) a lot of companies get public money. Do you get to go into their store or factory and just take some product?

 

Thats not a valid comparison. If no one goes into Home Depot on a saturday, Home Depot makes no money. If no one goes to an NFL game on a sunday, those teams still rake in $130 million (or whatever it is now) from TV contracts. Fan attendance could be zero for the entire league and teams will still operate in the black.

 

Blackout rules are old and outdated, and just another way the NFL extorts money from fans anyway that they can.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Ramius

[bbb]

Thats not a valid comparison. If no one goes into Home Depot on a saturday, Home Depot makes no money. If no one goes to an NFL game on a sunday, those teams still rake in $130 million (or whatever it is now) from TV contracts. Fan attendance could be zero for the entire league and teams will still operate in the black.

 

Blackout rules are old and outdated, and just another way the NFL extorts money from fans anyway that they can.

 

What does what they get from TV have to do with public funding and the rights of taxpayers?

[1B4IDie]

 

 

What does what they get from TV have to do with public funding and the rights of taxpayers?

What does public funding and the rights of taxpayers have anything to do with anything.

The Taxpayers do not have a right to view the games on TV if the stadium does not sell out because at the time they funded the stadium they did not negotiate that right.

A community could say 0 dollars in funding unless you lift the blackout rule.

They didn't so they don't have the right.

The constitution doesn't say life, liberty and the right to view a non sell out football game.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Why So Serious?

[bbb]

What does public funding and the rights of taxpayers have anything to do with anything.

The Taxpayers do not have a right to view the games on TV if the stadium does not sell out because at the time they funded the stadium they did not negotiate that right.

A community could say 0 dollars in funding unless you lift the blackout rule.

They didn't so they don't have the right.

The constitution doesn't say life, liberty and the right to view a non sell out football game.

 

Exactly. I love that last line!

[Orton's Arm]

 

What does public funding and the rights of taxpayers have anything to do with anything.

The Taxpayers do not have a right to view the games on TV if the stadium does not sell out because at the time they funded the stadium they did not negotiate that right.

A community could say 0 dollars in funding unless you lift the blackout rule.

They didn't so they don't have the right.

The constitution doesn't say life, liberty and the right to view a non sell out football game.

 

On the other hand, neither the Bill of Rights nor the Constitution state that millionaire players and billionaire owners have the right to taxpayer subsidies. NFL teams squeeze everything they can from us. The result is that they are swimming in a sea of money.

 

This transfer of wealth from taxpayers to NFL players and owners is unnecessary. The only way to stop it is to make it illegal for any local community to provide public financing or public funding to an NFL team or NFL stadium.

 

Blackout rules are another method by which NFL teams squeeze their fans. The sole reason for the blackouts it to allow a monopoly (the NFL) to reduce competition still further; thereby driving up the price of tickets and concessions. This practice should be illegal for the same reason that all monopolistic and anti-competitive business practices should be illegal.

[CodeMonkey]

This transfer of wealth from taxpayers to NFL players and owners is unnecessary. The only way to stop it is to make it illegal for any local community to provide public financing or public funding to an NFL team or NFL stadium.

I have never been a fan of tax money going to a corporation, the NFL in this case, that already makes almost obscene amounts of money. The NFL should be free to get as much money as they can from TV contracts, merchandise, ticket prices, concessions, etc. because football is their product to market as they see fit. But to give them public (tax) money, paid by a great many people who could not care less about a football team, is insane.

[1B4IDie]

On the other hand, neither the Bill of Rights nor the Constitution state that millionaire players and billionaire owners have the right to taxpayer subsidies. NFL teams squeeze everything they can from us. The result is that they are swimming in a sea of money.

 

This transfer of wealth from taxpayers to NFL players and owners is unnecessary. The only way to stop it is to make it illegal for any local community to provide public financing or public funding to an NFL team or NFL stadium.

 

Blackout rules are another method by which NFL teams squeeze their fans. The sole reason for the blackouts it to allow a monopoly (the NFL) to reduce competition still further; thereby driving up the price of tickets and concessions. This practice should be illegal for the same reason that all monopolistic and anti-competitive business practices should be illegal.

And I should be able to fly a JetPack to work by now.

 

But the municipalities gave/give the money to the teams and made agreements that are binding.

 

NFL has an Anti-Trust exemption, so they can participate in as much anti competitive activities as they like.

 

Sure it may be theoretically wrong but look at the Barclay Center in brooklyn, 1/3 of that was public money and it is having a huge positive impact on that neighborhood.

 

Public money for Arenas is not as black and white as you make it out to be, in some cases it can be a great investment for the community in some cases it can be a strain on an already strained community. Making it illegal wouldn't help the communities that saw a benefit in their investment.

 

Good Luck on a campaign to make public funds illegal to fund stadiums and overturning the NFL's Anti-Trust exemption, you will need it.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Why So Serious?

[Orton's Arm]

 

And I should be able to fly a JetPack to work by now.

 

But the municipalities gave/give the money to the teams and made agreements that are binding.

 

NFL has an Anti-Trust exemption, so they can participate in as much anti competitive activities as they like.

 

Sure it may be theoretically wrong but look at the Barclay Center in brooklyn, 1/3 of that was public money and it is having a huge positive impact on that neighborhood.

 

Public money for Arenas is not as black and white as you make it out to be, in some cases it can be a great investment for the community in some cases it can be a strain on an already strained community. Making it illegal wouldn't help the communities that saw a benefit in their investment.

 

Good Luck on a campaign to make public funds illegal to fund stadiums and overturning the NFL's Anti-Trust exemption, you will need it.

 

> And I should be able to fly a JetPack to work by now.

 

This comment is not relevant to a discussion about whether monopolies should be publicly subsidized, or whether they should be allowed to engage in anti-competitive business practices.

 

> But the municipalities gave/give the money to the teams and made agreements that are binding.

 

Existing agreements should probably be grandfathered in. The creation of new agreements should be illegal.

 

With or without public subsidies, there will still be 32 NFL teams; and 32 communities receiving whatever benefits NFL teams create. The only purpose public subsidies serve is to funnel money from taxpayers to millionaire players and billionaire owners.

 

> NFL has an Anti-Trust exemption, so they can participate in as much anti competitive activities as they like.

 

It's true that the NFL has an antitrust exemption. But there are still restrictions on its behavior even with that exemption in place. I am not suggesting eliminating that exemption. I merely want to see the exemption modified to eliminate its ability to impose television blackouts.

[Keukasmallies]

NASCAR, NBA, MLB, and who knows how many other professional sports appear to survive w/o a blackout rule. The NFL's blackout rule effect is as curious as a gerrymandered congressional district: When does seventy-five miles equal one hundred miles or more; when it is measured by the NFL.