FireChan Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 So is it worth drafting a guy who might just be a backup Qb than a guy who could be an immediate starter at LG or TE? Can't we do both? We seemed to draft a solid WR #2, a solid specialist WR#3/4, a DROTY candidate LB and a guy who might just be a back up QB last year. I'm hoping a single draft pick doesn't make or break our draft choices next year. If it does, we're in trouble no matter who is under center. Pretty simple really...because we already have a young first round pick QB hand picked by this regime who has shown plenty of promise already. How about invest in developing the kid you believe in and draft OL and weapons help? You keep wasting high picks on QB's then how are you supposed to build a team around him? EJ has shownight years more talent and potential than Gabbert, so Jax comparisons are ridiculous. And FYI to FireChan, you site Jax as the wrong way to do it (draft one QB and give him a couple years before looking for another QB) and yet that's how almost every team has done it every time in all of the history of the NFL. Very few teams have added more than one high round QB in back to back years or same draft in the NFLs history. So it's your same old stuff where you take only one example where it didn't work while ignoring the hundreds where it did. If EJ came out and played like Gabbert did, then fine, but the kid has shown lots of skills, poise, leadership and potential. Keep building the talent around him and give him the BEST opportunity to succeed. And I guarantee 100% bills won't take a QB in first couple rounds. If someone unexpectedly slides to 3rd round, then maybe as a backup guy and potential trade bait in future. Wasting high picks on QB's? What weapons don't we have for EJ? A good running game? Fred and your boy Spiller? A good WR? SJ13 put up 1000 yards with the Amish Rifle, I think he'll be fine for EJ. Do we need to draft the next AJ Green and Adrian Peterson for EJ to play well? Is that our plan going into next year's draft? As for your point about, "that's what every team does." Are there really hundreds of times where it worked out? Not in Buffalo or Cleveland, that's for sure. How many QB's are in the HoF, or have been on Superbowl winning teams? And how many are drafted every year? Peyton Manning was drafted and they stuck with him. So was Christian Ponder. So was Losman. So was Colt McCoy. So was Kyle Orton. So was Brady Quinn. So was Ryan Leaf. So was Jamarcus Russell. So was Chad Pennington. So was Sam Bradford. On and on I could go.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) Can't we do both? We seemed to draft a solid WR #2, a solid specialist WR#3/4, a DROTY candidate LB and a guy who might just be a back up QB last year. I'm hoping a single draft pick doesn't make or break our draft choices next year. If it does, we're in trouble no matter who is under center. Wasting high picks on QB's? What weapons don't we have for EJ? A good running game? Fred and your boy Spiller? A good WR? SJ13 put up 1000 yards with the Amish Rifle, I think he'll be fine for EJ. Do we need to draft the next AJ Green and Adrian Peterson for EJ to play well? Is that our plan going into next year's draft? As for your point about, "that's what every team does." Are there really hundreds of times where it worked out? Not in Buffalo or Cleveland, that's for sure. How many QB's are in the HoF, or have been on Superbowl winning teams? And how many are drafted every year? Peyton Manning was drafted and they stuck with him. So was Christian Ponder. So was Losman. So was Colt McCoy. So was Kyle Orton. So was Brady Quinn. So was Ryan Leaf. So was Jamarcus Russell. So was Chad Pennington. So was Sam Bradford. On and on I could go. I could go on and on too...so was Marino, so was Montana, so was Luck, so was Elway, so was Bledsoe, so was Ryan, so was Culpepper, so was Kosar, so was Simms, so was Kelly, so was McNair, so was Vick, so was Rivers, so was Eli, and so were tons of other QBs who had careers that range from solid to HOF careers that were drafted and developed as their QB. And you don't need a HOF QB to win in this league. You need a good QB for your best chance, and there is nothing that suggests EJ can't at least be a good QB. You don't throw in the towel and waste a pick doubling up when he has shown the potential to build around. You PROTECT him with OL help...you give him another weapon like a dynamic TE...you keep building the D to help support the offense. You BUILD A TEAM around him. If he doesn't progress enough over his first 2 years, then grab another as insurance (like what SD did when Bree's played poor his first 2 years and they got Rivers). You absolutely do not waste a high pick on a QB when we have a guy that needs to be developed and has shown the ability to do so. Again, if EJ came in and looked horrible, and continued to look horrible once he got back then you have a real decision. But this kid has NOT looked horrible at all and had us in position to win every game he has ever played in despite missing most of preseason. Edited November 1, 2013 by Alphadawg7
reddogblitz Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 ... Do we need to draft the next AJ Green ... Yes, this is exactly what we need to do. Nothing helps a QB with accuracy issues than WRs that can catch footballs that aren't perfectly thrown. We NEED a guy that can go up in a crowd and come down with the football. EJ could throw some up for grabs like Andy Dalton does and someone would catch them. The Bungle WRs have made Andy Dalton look like a good QB. We need to outfit EJ with a similar unit for him to be successful. We are still very weak at WR IMHO and hopefully will address it before next year.
8-8 Forever? Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 If we were going to take a QB next year, take best available in round 1. McCarron or Bridgewater, or Johnny Football, or Marcus M, or Boyd. Go big or go home. To not take Manziel if he's there would be insanity. I am sure he won't be there, but that kid has it all.
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 To not take Manziel if he's there would be insanity. I am sure he won't be there, but that kid has it all. Johnny Football is going to be Johnny Jaguar….
tennesseeboy Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 There is one caution here. The early take of most pundits is that this is the best qb class since 1983 (Elway, Kelly, Marino et al.) and if that is the case even I (who believe we need o-line and te help more than anything, would have to give serious thought to drafting any stellar prospect that might fall our way (Elway, Kelly, Marino) and I think right now that is Johnny Football and maybe this Bridgewater guy if they last that long. I would be surprised if that should happen.
Alphadawg7 Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 (edited) There is one caution here. The early take of most pundits is that this is the best qb class since 1983 (Elway, Kelly, Marino et al.) and if that is the case even I (who believe we need o-line and te help more than anything, would have to give serious thought to drafting any stellar prospect that might fall our way (Elway, Kelly, Marino) and I think right now that is Johnny Football and maybe this Bridgewater guy if they last that long. I would be surprised if that should happen. You do realize they have said that 3 of the last 4 years at this point of the college season. Then as soon as draft approaches not so much. I mean I hear this EVERY year on this board and then those same people start yelling not to draft a QB early, keep Fitz, cuz next years class is gonna be deepest since 83. Seriously, this literally happens every single year in this board for as long as I can remember. I'm really tired of hearing "next years draft class is the best since 83" just to see us get in position to take one in said draft, where then everyone who claimed it was best since 83 months earlier flip flops and starts yelling how stupid it would be to take a QB with that early pick because now next years class is the real class that's the best since 83. Or how pointless it is to take one if our OL can't protect him. I swear being a fan of this team and a member of this board is like the movie Groundhog Day. Im approaching the point where I am going to steal a groundhog and let him drive my car off a cliff while telling him "don't drive angry". Edited November 1, 2013 by Alphadawg7
ecgetty Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 How about a guy like Aaron Murray? May go round 3 or 4. Lots of poise there and maybe we have a Washington like situation at QB? I like Thad but he is limited.
Trader Posted November 1, 2013 Posted November 1, 2013 If a QB falls to you in the draft taking him is not a terrible strategy. There is a rookie salary cap in place so the situation is not what it used to be. Having two good QB's trading one is always an option.
San-O Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 Pretty simple really...because we already have a young first round pick QB hand picked by this regime who has shown plenty of promise already. How about invest in developing the kid you believe in and draft OL and weapons help? You keep wasting high picks on QB's then how are you supposed to build a team around him? EJ has shownight years more talent and potential than Gabbert, so Jax comparisons are ridiculous. Well, for one, he hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy. That aside, where and when has he shown plenty of promise? I like him, but he's throwing at a 56 completion %. Was already sacked a bunch of times also.
Leelee Phoenix Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 Seriously, this literally happens every single year in this board for as long as I can remember. Except last year The only year the Bills followed through on drafting their QB, to the point where they had no choice but to Sigh
benderbender Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 Fitzpatrick has made me a harsh critic of QBs. I think there's a star quality that a ready for prime time QB should have that Fitz was always lacking that everyone just hoped he could learn. EJ has flashes, but he seems to be more of an RG3 than a Cam Newton. If the scouts think that a QB is worth taking next year, I'm open to it.
Hplarrm Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 If a QB falls to you in the draft taking him is not a terrible strategy. There is a rookie salary cap in place so the situation is not what it used to be. Having two good QB's trading one is always an option. I do not think that the Bills FO, Bills media, and a vocal loud sliver of the fan base they would incite are mature enough and committed to winning emough to have 2 QBs with a legit call on the #1 job. We saw the results of this in the RJ/DF debacle where the legit call for investment in either QB and the FO in a futile search for the next Jimbo treated both players harshly and failed to produce a winner is an example of this. The QB battle right now is for the #2 and that is fine with me as either Lewis, Tuel or Flynn seem like reasonable choices to do the necessary job of giving the Bills a fighting chance if Manuel goes down for 3 games or less (if he is a poor choice or out for 3+ games we are done (that is what this season is showing).
FireChan Posted November 2, 2013 Posted November 2, 2013 I do not think that the Bills FO, Bills media, and a vocal loud sliver of the fan base they would incite are mature enough and committed to winning emough to have 2 QBs with a legit call on the #1 job. We saw the results of this in the RJ/DF debacle where the legit call for investment in either QB and the FO in a futile search for the next Jimbo treated both players harshly and failed to produce a winner is an example of this. The QB battle right now is for the #2 and that is fine with me as either Lewis, Tuel or Flynn seem like reasonable choices to do the necessary job of giving the Bills a fighting chance if Manuel goes down for 3 games or less (if he is a poor choice or out for 3+ games we are done (that is what this season is showing). The Redskins did just fine. The only reason there's controversy is because neither guy has proven they're the "franchise" guy. That's why the Pats were one of the few teams that could sign Tebow. No one would be calling for a QB switch with TB on the roster.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Why would the Bills NOT draft another QB this year? You can't just take a guy and then exclaim "he's our guy" for the next three or four years when you're starting with nothing. This, we should draft one every year til we get one, not always in the first but second through fourth depending on talent. Of course if there is a can't miss in the first you take him if you can. That was Stephen Garcia. He was a train wreck. You don't take a QB before round 3 next year. If EJ struggles or can't stay healthy next year, then draft one high. Most rookies are going to struggle. Why draft a guy next year when fans will get on him if he struggles out of the gate as well? The key is to not give up on a young QB too early. At the same time, you have to admit a mistake and not avoid correcting it. But you don't do that after one year. Dallas had Walsh and Aikmen, stick with the winner and trade the other. I question Denver's placing, nothing has shown me that there's a future after Manning and the future is closer than many other teams. Osweiler. How about a guy like Aaron Murray? May go round 3 or 4. Lots of poise there and maybe we have a Washington like situation at QB? I like Thad but he is limited. or McCarron. I prefer Pachall who has all the talent of EJ but better accuracy and do to his rehab and broken arm could be had mid round.
Nanker Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 No need for The Bills to draft a QB next year once they sign Jay Cutler.
CSBill Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 If we were going to take a QB next year, take best available in round 1. McCarron or Bridgewater, or Johnny Football, or Marcus M, or Boyd. Go big or go home. Hard to disagree, I wouldn't be disappointed if we got a good QB. But the counter argument might now be that we have a very serviceable back-up in Thad Lewis, why not resign him and use these high draft picks on other, more pressing, needs?
Buffaloed in Pa Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 I say draft another one in the 1st ,if its one of the top two rated left . E.J. seems injury prone in his really short career. His deep ball lacks,just like the pre draft reports.Let E.J. fight it out. A team that wins ,has to have a franchise QB If we were going to take a QB next year, take best available in round 1. McCarron or Bridgewater, or Johnny Football, or Marcus M, or Boyd. Go big or go home. THIS
chris heff Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Yesterday I had a conversation with a knowledgeable FSU fan and Alumnus. He said that at FSU Manuel was a QB for a rebuilding program. He never had the supporting cast that Winston has. O line wasn't as good backs and receivers that Manuel had weren't close to what FSU has now. He agreed with the premiss that the FSU offense is more complicated than people think. He also said that the one flaw in EJ's game is what got him injured, he'll try for that extra yard instead of getting out of bounds. He said he has become a Bills fan because of EJ. As far as Winston is concerned he said he thinks if he were eligible for this years draft, he would be the number one pick.
Boatdrinks Posted November 3, 2013 Posted November 3, 2013 Well, for one, he hasn't shown the ability to stay healthy. That aside, where and when has he shown plenty of promise? I like him, but he's throwing at a 56 completion %. Was already sacked a bunch of times also. He had some bad luck on one sideline hit and is missing time. Not a catastrophic injury nor a trend of nagging injuries. The completion% is likely skewed by a bad outing vs Jets and being asked to throw largely in obvious passing situations by a rookie OC that doesn't understand risk vs reward. Many QB's completion % is pumped up by easy throws on 1st and 2nd downs vs run looks. This is the "new" running game in the NFL. A foreign concept to Hackett. I believe the % would be much higher with more effective play calling, i.e. giving EJ easy completions on early downs to get him in rhythm/ build confidence, and avoid 3rd and long obvious passing situations where defenses tee off. The Jets have done a good job of this, though you still see inconsistency in a rookie QB. However, the Bills simply will not take a QB in round one unless they have maybe the 1st or 2nd pick. There is no Andrew Luck in this draft and EJ is pretty much assigned an "incomplete" grade unless he is back very soon. He hasn't shown that he is incapable of doing the things a franchise QB must do, so they will go with him another season or two. You just don't see NFL teams take QB's in round 1 back to back years. A catastrophic injury might be the only circumstance where this might happen.
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