MClem06 Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Will this be a close poll or will it be a no contest?
boyst Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 What has Goodwin done to prove he is better then TJ? We have seen a couple great plays from TJ negated by penalties. WR do not develop overnight and not everyone is going to be a Justin Blackmon or whatshisnameinCinci. Look at some of the top WR's over the last two drafts. Corderelle Patterson, anyone? What happened to letting players develop a few seasons? There are seldom flash in the pan WR's in this league. Of course we all know their names but for every one of those there are 2 more on that same team that are solid contributing WR's that did not bust out of the gate. Graham is a good player who has some work to do but he is getting better. With Brad Smith on IR and Kelsay long gone we now sacrifice TJ as the whipping boy. "Tobey" J Graham. Hell, half this board thought Da'Rifk Rodgers was going to be our #3. He is not even in the league, to my knowledge.
Matt in KC Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I think Graham is a little more polished than Goodwin at this point. But, the fact that it's close is a huge compliment to Goodwin, who I think has a much higher ceiling. If and when the playoffs are out of reach, we should be giving Goodwin more playing time to mature. Until then, cycle him in occasionally, and let him run back kickoffs. The area I see Goodwin as much better is blocking.
NoSaint Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 as a 3rd vs 4th wr.... i dont know that you will be seeing significant playing time differences as much as both guys have packages they are a part of and simply trying to get our strengths against opponents weaknesses.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 the problem is ... who's the QB. that has proven to be the difference maker.
eball Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Thus far Graham is the more durable player -- and his contributions have been steadily increasing recently. I also love what Goodwin brings, so the more the Bills can find ways to get each involved, the better.
Buftex Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Graham is showing flashes. This is kind of the normal progression for a wr in the NFL. He is in the middle of his second season. Goodwin, on the other hand, is showing to have good hands, great speed, right out of the gate..not a bad blocker either. However, he pretty much has been injured in every game he plays in thus far. I think we can use them both!
qbford8 Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I was at the Miami game I could not believe how big Goodwin was
Buftex Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 What has Goodwin done to prove he is better then TJ? We have seen a couple great plays from TJ negated by penalties. WR do not develop overnight and not everyone is going to be a Justin Blackmon or whatshisnameinCinci. Look at some of the top WR's over the last two drafts. Corderelle Patterson, anyone? What happened to letting players develop a few seasons? There are seldom flash in the pan WR's in this league. Of course we all know their names but for every one of those there are 2 more on that same team that are solid contributing WR's that did not bust out of the gate. Graham is a good player who has some work to do but he is getting better. With Brad Smith on IR and Kelsay long gone we now sacrifice TJ as the whipping boy. "Tobey" J Graham. Hell, half this board thought Da'Rifk Rodgers was going to be our #3. He is not even in the league, to my knowledge. I am sure it is the same with all fan bases, but as time passes, maybe the losses piling up, we seem to be as impatient as ever as a whole. Our undrafted, practice squad QB has an unexpectedly good game in a loss, and half the fan base is ready to annoint him the QB of the future, and declare the guy they drafted in the 1st round a "bust"...we draft a WR in the second round, playing with a crappy QB, playing in a position that doesn't really play to his strenghts, and we are ready to declare him a bust after one season...the aforementioned undrafted, practice squad QB who had that good game, with extended playing time, is being shown to have some imperfiections in his game...so he is a disaster now! But not as big of a disaster as the undrafted FA qb the team signed during the summer, who had a really good couple of pre-season games playing with 3rd, 4th and future FA's...you know the guy who was thrust into the starter role when the 1st round QB went down in a nationally televised game, and looked a little less than stellar...at that point, we hadn't seen the undrafted FA QB from the practice squad play, so we were sure that was the end of our season...but now, all the QB's have shown to suck... And it goes on and on and on and on.... Wait, what was the question?
ALF Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 The one who drops the most passes might make a better CB.
metzelaars_lives Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I can't believe anyone in their right mind would vote for TJ Graham. I mean, the TD vs. Cincinnati and the insane catch he made against New Orleans last week are two better plays than TJ Graham's ever made. They do not have room for two little speedsters and I think Goodwin has already shown that his upside greatly exceeds Graham's. If I were in charge, my top 4 WR's on the Bills would be SJ, Woods, Easley and Goodwin. I still believe Easley will get snaps by the end of the year and show that he belongs. Why he hasn't already is beyond me. He's our best ST gunner since Tasker, he had 100 yards receiving on 7 catches from Jeff Tuel in ONE QUARTER in the preseason and everyone forgets that in 2011, he won the #2 WR job outright in the preseason before he got the heart thing. Not to mention, he's fast, he's strong and he is the absolute prototypical size for a WR. More so than anyone on our roster by a longshot. It remains a mystery why he doesn't get snaps. Edited October 31, 2013 by metzelaars_lives
Webster Guy Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Our head coach and OC like TJ better obviously but I can't understand why they would burn a fairly high pick on a guy like Goodwin if they aren't going to use him. The NFL has pretty much killed the kickoff return with most kicks being out of the endzone, and we have Leodis returning kicks, so Goodwin's impact is minimal on special teams. Woods and Stevie are locks, and we don't run as many 4 receiver sets as we did last year, so Goodwin pretty much watches the games on the sideline which drives me crazy because I think he's twice the player Graham is. He's AT LEAST just as good, with more upside and better ball skills. TJ is a great kid, teammate, interview etc., but has been a slow learner (his route error cost us a game last year), and although he gets pretty good separation sometimes, if the pass isn't perfect he doesn't have the aggressiveness or timing to adjust properly like a good NFL receiver needs to. I'm sick of this topic because it frustrates me. Another reason I think hiring Hackett was a poorly thought out, homer call. If we could have found an OC on par with the kind guy Pettine is, you would see Goodwin involved and effective most every week (and CJ healthy and used properly the way Chan did it) Drafting and scouting offensive skill talent is great but if you can't use them properly then stick with drafting defense and O linemen.
sjjr Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Right now Graham is a little more complete but in the future they will be equally important to the offense. Having deep speed is key to allowing the Bills to do what they really want to, run it.
boyst Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I want to know who is voting Goodwin so I can start looking at their posts more critically or just ignore them. This is ridiculous. The ineptness of fans. Or is it the psychology of man? That everyone wants the bird in the bush and the next great thing like they know something. Its bad enough Easley gets so much attention and cries for WR but that is somewhat warranted. Goodwin fandom is not
ColdBlueNorth Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I feel like Graham has had more opportunities and meh... I would like to see what the rookie has if we had a QB that could launch the ball far enough and accurately enough. Graham could serve on kickoffs.
26TrapDraw Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I think Graham is a little more polished than Goodwin at this point. But, the fact that it's close is a huge compliment to Goodwin, who I think has a much higher ceiling. If and when the playoffs are out of reach, we should be giving Goodwin more playing time to mature. Until then, cycle him in occasionally, and let him run back kickoffs. The area I see Goodwin as much better is blocking. +1 speed is a wash they are both world class the edge in blocking gives to Goodwin. Think he's just flat out a better football player.
metzelaars_lives Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 I want to know who is voting Goodwin so I can start looking at their posts more critically or just ignore them. This is ridiculous. The ineptness of fans. Or is it the psychology of man? That everyone wants the bird in the bush and the next great thing like they know something. Its bad enough Easley gets so much attention and cries for WR but that is somewhat warranted. Goodwin fandom is not Uhhh dude, he had two electric kick returns in one game in the preseason. He caught a game-tying last minute TD against the Bengals where he toasted the guy. He made an insane catch last week against New Orleans. And he's barely even been on the field for us. You don't think it's warranted to be more excited for Marquise Goodwin than TJ Graham? What in the world has TJ Graham shown to make anyone think he's even worthy of being on an NFL roster? You are in the vast minority here my friend.
Webster Guy Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Uhhh dude, he had two electric kick returns in one game in the preseason. He caught a game-tying last minute TD against the Bengals where he toasted the guy. He made an insane catch last week against New Orleans. And he's barely even been on the field for us. You don't think it's warranted to be more excited for Marquise Goodwin than TJ Graham? What in the world has TJ Graham shown to make anyone think he's even worthy of being on an NFL roster? You are in the vast minority here my friend. Agreed 100%.
boyst Posted October 31, 2013 Posted October 31, 2013 Uhhh dude, he had two electric kick returns in one game in the preseason. He caught a game-tying last minute TD against the Bengals where he toasted the guy. He made an insane catch last week against New Orleans. And he's barely even been on the field for us. You don't think it's warranted to be more excited for Marquise Goodwin than TJ Graham? What in the world has TJ Graham shown to make anyone think he's even worthy of being on an NFL roster? You are in the vast minority here my friend. kick returns are not playing WR. And a long catch in prevent? Wow.
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