BringBackFergy Posted October 30, 2013 Author Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Don't need to explain it, just watch the clip. In the second shot (I think), the shot dents the wood backing by about a quarter-inch. That's not enough to penetrate forehead bone (unless you're really soft-headed, like some people I can't mention. Though I can mention they mispell the letter "X".) Still enough to kill, though - depressed fracture and hemorrhage. Guy's lucky. With a good slingshot and better shot (like: lead. Looks like he's using stainless steel bearings, which are too elastic), you theoretically could penetrate a skull. I don't know how easy it is, though. That's one for Mythbusters. I'm no physicist so this question may be easier for you BUT why is a lead shot better than steel? Lead is malleable whereas steel is harder. I would think the steel ball bearing would make deeper impact with the same speed as opposed to a lead shot which would expand and make a bigger hole but not as deep. Either way, however, this guy should get an "ex-ray". Unless its Ace of Spades. Can I call you Sweet Pea? Chef - be careful. Stephanie is a German name derived from the word "stephancovas" meaning "your schnitzel is really wrinkly". Proceed with caution. Edited October 30, 2013 by BringBackFergy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Either way, however, this guy should get an "ex-ray". Chef - be careful. Stephanie is a German name derived from the word "stephancovas" meaning "your schnitzel is really wrinkly". Proceed with caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I'm no physicist so this question may be easier for you BUT why is a lead shot better than steel? Lead is malleable whereas steel is harder. I would think the steel ball bearing would make deeper impact with the same speed as opposed to a lead shot which would expand and make a bigger hole but not as deep. Counter-intuitively, it's because lead's more malleable. Steel's hardness makes the collision more elastic - meaning, it bounces. So the steel ball "keeps" more kinetic energy after it recoils from the collision, and transfers that much less to the target. Lead, on the other hand, being malleable, doesn't recoil, meaning it transfers much more energy to the target. Lead shot will even face-hardened armor better than steel shot, up to a certain thickness. In WWI, when snipers used face-hardened steel plate shields, riflemen learned to pry the jacketed bullet out of the case and replace it backwards, exposing the unjacketed lead face at the rear. A normal bullet wouldn't penetrate plate - between the hardness of the steel surface and the hardness of the bullet's nose, the bullet would shatter or ricochet; the reversed round went right through it, even though it was slower and unstable, because the exposed lead was tougher, and wouldn't shatter or ricochet, hence shattered the face-hardened plate and penetrated better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Don't need to explain it, just watch the clip. In the second shot (I think), the shot dents the wood backing by about a quarter-inch. That's not enough to penetrate forehead bone (unless you're really soft-headed, like some people I can't mention. Though I can mention they mispell the letter "X".) Still enough to kill, though - depressed fracture and hemorrhage. Guy's lucky. With a good slingshot and better shot (like: lead. Looks like he's using stainless steel bearings, which are too elastic), you theoretically could penetrate a skull. I don't know how easy it is, though. That's one for Mythbusters. Wait-you're calling steel to "elastic" to penetrate a skull? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Wait-you're calling steel to "elastic" to penetrate a skull? Read what I wrote and don't be an idiot. I'm calling a stainless steel ball of the size in the video fired from a slingshot of the type in the video less able to penetrate the forehead than a lead shot of the same size, because it's more elastic. And "elastic" is the proper word for it, in this context (i.e. comparing it to lead, which is highly inelastic.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Counter-intuitively, it's because lead's more malleable. Steel's hardness makes the collision more elastic - meaning, it bounces. So the steel ball "keeps" more kinetic energy after it recoils from the collision, and transfers that much less to the target. Lead, on the other hand, being malleable, doesn't recoil, meaning it transfers much more energy to the target. Lead shot will even face-hardened armor better than steel shot, up to a certain thickness. In WWI, when snipers used face-hardened steel plate shields, riflemen learned to pry the jacketed bullet out of the case and replace it backwards, exposing the unjacketed lead face at the rear. A normal bullet wouldn't penetrate plate - between the hardness of the steel surface and the hardness of the bullet's nose, the bullet would shatter or ricochet; the reversed round went right through it, even though it was slower and unstable, because the exposed lead was tougher, and wouldn't shatter or ricochet, hence shattered the face-hardened plate and penetrated better. Thanks Tom. Good explanation and makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Thanks Tom. Good explanation and makes sense. You actually read that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Counter-intuitively, it's because lead's more malleable. Steel's hardness makes the collision more elastic - meaning, it bounces. So the steel ball "keeps" more kinetic energy after it recoils from the collision, and transfers that much less to the target. Lead, on the other hand, being malleable, doesn't recoil, meaning it transfers much more energy to the target. Lead shot will even face-hardened armor better than steel shot, up to a certain thickness. In WWI, when snipers used face-hardened steel plate shields, riflemen learned to pry the jacketed bullet out of the case and replace it backwards, exposing the unjacketed lead face at the rear. A normal bullet wouldn't penetrate plate - between the hardness of the steel surface and the hardness of the bullet's nose, the bullet would shatter or ricochet; the reversed round went right through it, even though it was slower and unstable, because the exposed lead was tougher, and wouldn't shatter or ricochet, hence shattered the face-hardened plate and penetrated better. That seems a little odd to me but I won't dispute it. But I can tell you it's dangerous. The lead core may eject leaving the jacket stuck in the bore. The unaware shooter then fires the next round into a obstructed barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 You actually read that? It took me a few times to figure it out. I never took physics...so Tom is the closest thing I've got to the screwy, "Kramerlike" physics teacher at our highschool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) I'm no physicist so this question may be easier for you BUT why is a lead shot better than steel? Lead is malleable whereas steel is harder. I would think the steel ball bearing would make deeper impact with the same speed as opposed to a lead shot which would expand and make a bigger hole but not as deep. Ease of production? Lead is abundant and easy to work with. The "old northwest' of the country was in the driftless area, the mining area of WI,IL,IA, & MN. Your post got me thinking when I used to be up in Dubuque, IA. They have one of the last remaining shot towers around up there in Dubuque. Interesting how they would make the lead shot: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Shot_tower http://en.wikipedia...._Tower_(Dubuque) Side note. A lot came out of that lead country... Enough to help the Union w/the Civil War. Even the pottery was (obviously dangerous) glazed w/lead. If you ever find Galena (w/the the real lead glaze) pottery and the person selling it (say @ a garage sale) doesn't know... Snatch it up! It will fetch you a huge windfall! Edited October 31, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFergy Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Ease of production? Lead is abundant and easy to work with. ! The "old northwest' of the country was in the driftless area, the mining area of WI,IL,IA, & MN. Your post got me thinking when I used to be up in Dubuque, IA. They have one of the last remaining shot towers around up there in Dubuque. Interesting how they would make the lead shot: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Shot_tower http://en.wikipedia...._Tower_(Dubuque) Side note. A lot came out of that lead country... Enough to help the Union w/the Civil War. Even the pottery was (obviously dangerous) glazed w/lead. If you ever find Galena (w/the the real lead glaze) pottery and the person selling it (say @ a garage sale) doesn't know... Snatch it up! It will fetch you a huge windfall! Interesting. I'll keep an eye out for the pottery. When I shot my first deer I used a 30-30 round with a lead round (Remington). It was a clean kill and when I dressed the deer out was amazed at the small hole going in and the destruction of the rib and organs as the lead bullet mushroomed. That's why I figured lead would create a big hole in the guy's head but not deep. I suppose lead is both bigger and deeper as Tom said...lead doesn't bounce..it keeps going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Florida or Germany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Interesting. I'll keep an eye out for the pottery. When I shot my first deer I used a 30-30 round with a lead round (Remington). It was a clean kill and when I dressed the deer out was amazed at the small hole going in and the destruction of the rib and organs as the lead bullet mushroomed. That's why I figured lead would create a big hole in the guy's head but not deep. I suppose lead is both bigger and deeper as Tom said...lead doesn't bounce..it keeps going. Look it up... If you are into pottery... Garage sales, junking... Etc... It has the tell tale orange (lead) coloring... Lots of fakes out there. The real stuff is poisonous to use. Again, look up the markings from the 19th century. Pretty amazing where some of these pieces end up and what they fetch!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Interesting. I'll keep an eye out for the pottery. When I shot my first deer I used a 30-30 round with a lead round (Remington). It was a clean kill and when I dressed the deer out was amazed at the small hole going in and the destruction of the rib and organs as the lead bullet mushroomed. That's why I figured lead would create a big hole in the guy's head but not deep. I suppose lead is both bigger and deeper as Tom said...lead doesn't bounce..it keeps going. Don't pay attention to Tom. He dosn't know anything about guns. Not shocking since he lives in DC.I have steel core 7.62x39 ammo that blows through a 14" spruce. It doesn't "bounce off" because it's to "elastic." Soft lead will expand and consume it's energy in a larger frontal area. Good when shooting game not good when looking at maximum penetration. That's why solids [no exposed lead] are used in African hunting. And yes Tom I know this because I own the gun and have shot the ammo. I didn't read it in a book like you did. Edited October 31, 2013 by Jim in Anchorage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Don't pay attention to Tom. He dosn't know anything about guns. Not shocking since he lives in DC.I have steel core 7.62x39 ammo that blows through a 14" spruce. It doesn't "bounce off" because it's to "elastic." Soft lead will expand and consume it's energy in a larger frontal area. Yeah. Because we're talking about defending ourselves from trees. With guns. I told you not to be an idiot. But you couldn't take my advice, could you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 (edited) Yeah. Because we're talking about defending ourselves from trees. With guns. I told you not to be an idiot. But you couldn't take my advice, could you? Man you do a nice switch. This started with lead vs steel on penetration. So your comeback is we need to defend ourselves from trees?[light chuckle from audience and a few Conners clapping.] Come on man I know you can do better than that. Don't present yourself as a gun expert to me. The "I never saw a gun, much less fired one." group may bite on you're all knowing comments but I know better. You live in DC. Are you even allowed to look at a picture of a gun? Edited October 31, 2013 by Jim in Anchorage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah. Because we're talking about defending ourselves from trees. With guns. I told you not to be an idiot. But you couldn't take my advice, could you? Someone not taking advice here OTW? My work is done here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Man you do a nice switch. This started with lead vs steel on penetration. So your comeback is we need to defend ourselves from trees?[light chuckle from audience and a few Conners clapping.] Come on man I know you can do better than that. Don't present yourself as a gun expert to me. The "I never saw a gun, much less fired one." group may bite on you're all knowing comments but I know better. You live in DC. Are you even allowed to look at a picture of a gun? I do a nice switch? This started with lead vs. steel shot from a SLINGSHOT at BONE. You're the only one talking about firearms, you retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Round 2 in the PPP showdown? Tom and Jim need to make it through round 1 first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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