Fantastic insight article about our culture of losing

[GaryPinC]

Loved this article. So many coaches focus so much on the x's and o's of the game, micro-examining mistakes and ignore the need to mentally keep the team moving in a positive direction.

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-2/How-Marrone-has-pushed-out-the-negative/4c09ff43-9a6b-4284-a5d6-0674c43840c7

 

This translates to all levels of sports and this article shows how over the years when the rest of the fans were thinking "oh, crap here it comes" so were the players!

 

Criticize Marrone all you want but he and his staff deserve time to grow and develop the team as well as themselves because unlike their predecessors they've got the fundamentals correct.

[John in Jax]

Well, how is this year much different? Of their 7 games, they've lost 3 "close ones." And looking at the remaining schedule, I see about 3 more wins, maybe 4 if Hell freezes over. LOL

Edited October 23, 2013 by John in Jax

[Rhode Island Red]

It's definitely a feel-good piece from Chris Brown; having said that, I am not sure whether to give the analysis more or less credence given his 'inside' position...

 

Sure hope he's spot on, though, and they continue to ramp up the good plays while they work on eliminating the bad.

 

Imagining how it will feel if they can pull off this game is kind of like figuring out what to do when you win the lottery.

[Just in Atlanta]

I hope this is true. I wonder, though, whether that is wish wash.

 

Athletes are competitors. Do they really just say "screw it" when they don't have a "culture of winning"? Is not thinking of consequences really the magic bullet to erase 13 years of a so-called "losing culture"? Or is it simply a blend of better talent and coaching?

 

I do remember reading similar stories about Chan Gailey's squad being different from the previous squad in that they "expected to win". That expectation turned into reality only 40 percent of the time. Is the not thinking of consequences approach better than the expecting to win approach?

 

Also, know that Brown, whom I think does a fine job for the job he has, is employed by the Bills organization and is 50 percent reporter / 50 percent PR guy.

 

On the fence on this, slightly on the doubt side -- smacks of an empowerment seminar -- but want to believe.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Just in Atlanta

[Homey D. Clown]

This past week at the Bill backers bar here in Nashville, you could actually see the difference on the field. After Miami came back to take the lead, even the fans didn't have the same sense of panic, like "here we go again". Everyone a quiet confidence that the team would pull it out. Then, Freddie had the best gut check run of all time for the franchise, and you just knew these aren't the same old Bills.

 

Now that's not to say I think we're going to go into New Orleans and bang out a win no problem, but I like their chances this year over any other team this franchise has fielded in the last decade.

[quinnearlysghost88]

Well, how is this year much different? Of their 7 games, they've lost 3 "close ones." And looking at the remaining schedule, I see about 3 more wins, maybe 4 if Hell freezes over. LOL

 

Only three more wins? I mean Jax, Pitt, jets/miami(one win there), tampa, falcons. I can find 4 wins in there.

[hondo in seattle]

It's definitely a feel-good piece from Chris Brown; having said that, I am not sure whether to give the analysis more or less credence given his 'inside' position...

 

Sure hope he's spot on, though, and they continue to ramp up the good plays while they work on eliminating the bad.

 

Imagining how it will feel if they can pull off this game is kind of like figuring out what to do when you win the lottery.

 

And didn't it make you 'feel good'?

 

Regardless of the author, it seems the Bills players sense a difference. So even though the Bills are only 3-4 in close games this year (or 3-3, depending how you keep count), I thought the article was encouraging.

 

At the same time, I worry about falling to 3-6 with two very tough games in front of us. What will locker room morale be like then?

 

On the other hand, if we're 5-4 a couple weeks from now, those guys will believe in each other and their coaches like never before.

[Ronin]

It's a soft fluff piece. The same was said about Gailey.

 

http://www.buffaloru...hift-in-buffalo

 

Here's a funny one about Gailey doing more with less in Buffalo, ... think that's true?

 

http://espn.go.com/d...s-buffalo-bills

 

Time will tell, but I disagree that he's gotten the fundamentals correct, that's why the team's major issues exist, exactly for reasons of not getting the fundamentals correct. It all starts in the trenches to borrow a cliche. QB as well, but the fundamentals with Manuel are hardly straight either.

 

Regardless of the author, it seems the Bills players sense a difference.

 

Again, it can "seem" whatever it wants, we know that "BILL-ieving" only goes so far. The same things were said about Gailey early in his tenure, how the players really liked him and enjoyed playing for him and how he changed the culture, etc. That's when the whole "BILL-ieving" thing even came out.

 

You need talent, especially at QB, and right now Manuel can't string two much less three or four quarters of throwing the ball accurately together when he's healthy, to win. You need coaches that know how to win, particularly in the NFL, and this crew hasn't come close to proving that yet.

 

That's the problem with these fluff hit pieces, make everyone feel good but take things so far out of context so as to ignore the elephants sitting in the kitchen sink.

 

But that's the job of the media, to prop things up early in a cycle, and then to state the obvious later in the same cycle. In 2015 we'll have a much better handle on exactly how good Marrone really is, even later next season we will. If he's really this good the same media will point out what's obvious. If he's not, they'll start talking about the obvious things that he's doing wrong.

 

Few however will dig and look at the harder facts and take risks and put their journalistic reputations on the line by making predictions.

 

There's always hope-and-change and BILL-ieving at the beginning of a new relationship.

Edited October 23, 2013 by TaskersGhost

[MyHorseAteTheKid]

It's nice to read something positive about the Bills.. It might all be BS, but for a few minutes I was feeling pretty good about my addiction to this team..

[GA BILLS FAN]

Changing culture is HARD --- very HARD --- even though a lot of the players are different, the media, the fans and the administration drag the team backwards --- between Marrone, Pettine and Hackett that IS their biggest challenge --- creating a culture of winning --- it would help if Brandon wasn't around, but it is what it is

[Captain Hindsight]

I remember seeing a Football Life with Jimmy Johnson and he was on his fishing boat with Belicheck talking about what he told Jason Garrett when he became the head coach of the Cowboys. Something to the effect of "X's and O's don't matter anymore. Everyone is this building from the QB to the coaching staff to the janitor to each fan is looking to you for guidance and leadership. You have to set the tone every single day of the mentality of your team. If you do it consistently, they will follow you."

 

I get the impression guys do that with Marrone. I felt the same way about Gailey so its maybe its all for naught. But one thing I loved about Sunday was before the final play, Marrone walked up to Mario and said (I think via lip reading) "End this ****."

 

Gailey was pretty good at the X's and O's (offensively) but I wouldn't say the same thing about Marrone, he seems more like a general than X's and O's guy.

[Last Guy on the Bench]

I hope this is true. I wonder, though, whether that is wish wash.

 

Athletes are competitors. Do they really just say "screw it" when they don't have a "culture of winning"? Is not thinking of consequences really the magic bullet to erase 13 years of a so-called "losing culture"? Or is it simply a blend of better talent and coaching?

 

I do remember reading similar stories about Chan Gailey's squad being different from the previous squad in that they "expected to win". That expectation turned into reality only 40 percent of the time. Is the not thinking of consequences approach better than the expecting to win approach?

 

Also, know that Brown, whom I think does a fine job for the job he has, is employed by the Bills organization and is 50 percent reporter / 50 percent PR guy.

 

On the fence on this, slightly on the doubt side -- smacks of an empowerment seminar -- but want to believe.

 

I agree that you can't really know how deep this runs, but I do think it's different than what was said about Gailey. The Gailey stuff was just about a general "winning mentality" if I remember.

 

This is much more specific. It's about a mental shift from focusing on minimizing mistakes to focusing on forgetting about mistakes and making plays.

 

I think that's big, if it's true. I've never believed in a coaching philosophy that is essentially defensive or protective, i.e., "If we can only run our plays perfectly as they are designed without making any errors, we will succeed." or "If we can only march down the field without any negative plays or penalties, we will succeed." Never, ever gonna happen that way. Football is too fast and complex. Even the best teams make physical and mental errors all the time.

 

Plus, it gets people away from thinking about what awesome, productive, game-changing play they can make on the current play. Instead their heads are filled with images of what they are trying to avoid. Great players and great teams don't think that way.

 

So I am really glad to read the quotes in that article. Hope that attitude sticks.

[tennesseeboy]

I have a suggestion of something we might do to establish a culture of winning......WIN.

[Buftex]

I hope this is true. I wonder, though, whether that is wish wash.

 

Athletes are competitors. Do they really just say "screw it" when they don't have a "culture of winning"? Is not thinking of consequences really the magic bullet to erase 13 years of a so-called "losing culture"? Or is it simply a blend of better talent and coaching?

 

 

I do think there is somehting to a "culture of losing". With the Bills, and the Sabres (you live in Atlanta, maybe you don't follow them?), the years of futility are piling up. Of course, there is no way to prove any of this with statistics, but I don't think the Bills, or the Sabres have an inordinate number of bad players over the last decade, but there comes a point where losing doesn't have any real repercussions. Somebody on every team is always going to get paid a lot of money, when their production doesn't match their salary. Not to say that the players stop caring about winning, but they have dealt with it for so long, they become accustomed to it.

 

We see guys walking off the field, after getting their asses handed to them, joking and laughing with the guy who just crushed them. They have been through it all before...they realize the sun does still come out tomorrow. It is all cliche, I guess, but something I think teams really need to guard against.

 

You see a guy like Doc Rivers, with the Clippers, being called "petty" for wanting all Lakers logos and banners out of sight when the Clippers are playing their home games at the Staples Center. He knows, the expectations for the Clippers are always low, because they can never be compared to the Lakers...so he is removing the comparison. It is all about changing culture.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Buftex

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Criticize Marrone all you want ...

 

Marrone is an outstanding coach and will be around for a long while. Hope it's in Buffalo.

 

As some have pointed out, here are some hallmarks:

- small drop off when injuries force into roster depth

- is not over/solely focused on O, D or ST

- always have the TOs left at the end of the half

- is more a coaching staff big picture CEO than a uber coordinator.

- his messages are the same things we hear from the players

- promotes leadership and spends time managing the psychological state of the team and key players.

- cant argue with elevated play of players that had been question marks on all phases

- not sure how complicit he was, but every single cut and free agent add has seemed an improvement

[The Big Cat]

I've made this point before whenever this topic comes up:

 

Talking about winning guarantees nothing.

 

NOT talking about winning, however, does.

Edited October 23, 2013 by The Big Cat

[stony]

Changing culture is HARD --- very HARD --- even though a lot of the players are different, the media, the fans and the administration drag the team backwards --- between Marrone, Pettine and Hackett that IS their biggest challenge --- creating a culture of winning --- it would help if Brandon wasn't around, but it is what it is

 

You know it was Brandon who was responsible for bringing those guys aboard, right? If, and it's obviously a HUGE if, the Bills were to make the playoffs this year or next Brandon would be viewed as one of the more progressive and smart up-and-coming "owners/managers/presidents/CEOs" in the league.

[GaryPinC]

I agree that you can't really know how deep this runs, but I do think it's different than what was said about Gailey. The Gailey stuff was just about a general "winning mentality" if I remember.

 

This is much more specific. It's about a mental shift from focusing on minimizing mistakes to focusing on forgetting about mistakes and making plays.

 

I think that's big, if it's true. I've never believed in a coaching philosophy that is essentially defensive or protective, i.e., "If we can only run our plays perfectly as they are designed without making any errors, we will succeed." or "If we can only march down the field without any negative plays or penalties, we will succeed." Never, ever gonna happen that way. Football is too fast and complex. Even the best teams make physical and mental errors all the time.

 

Plus, it gets people away from thinking about what awesome, productive, game-changing play they can make on the current play. Instead their heads are filled with images of what they are trying to avoid. Great players and great teams don't think that way.

 

So I am really glad to read the quotes in that article. Hope that attitude sticks.

 

Great post, couldn't have said it better myself. Every failed head coach has come through here talking about wanting to win and "it's hard to win in the NFL". Every single person on this planet likes to win, the true issue is getting players to consistently put their heart and effort in to achieve that, especially if they have to fight through failure first.

 

Marrone is the first coach we've had in recent times who seems continually sensitive in finding different ways to change the mindset of losing, not simply hoping winning will be the only cure.

Maybe it's all fluff, maybe he loses his players, but I'm happy to see that he's consistent about it.

[Ronin]

I have a suggestion of something we might do to establish a culture of winning......WIN.

 

Amen to that. It's one thing to "almost win" a few games or even win a couple more, which hasn't happened yet, but it's entirely another matter to build a competent team that's capable for playoff caliber performance.

 

I notice that in these forums it's the younger fans that seem more content to simply have a .500 or 9-7 team while the older fans that went thru the '90s want more. The Bills' record outside of the Polian era is abyssmal, one of the worst in the league otherwise.

[John in Jax]

Marrone is an outstanding coach and will be around for a long while. Hope it's in Buffalo.

 

I didn't follow Marrone when he was at Syracuse, but I'm just curious, what happened there? His record was 25-25, hardly "outstanding."