boyst Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Yep, I said it. This is not part of the unpopular opinions thread. I went to start a post in the adults section about football and realized it's too good not to post to be ridiculed, mocked and laughed at here. So, have at it. I am not out to make some campaign that he's as good as he is or try to start some big feud. I am just taking some stats I find. It started with all the stuff I saw about Lynch, it continued from this past off season when I kept saying how good Jackson is and got mocked saying so many other backs are better. Well, I am back to say it again. Fred Jackson is a top 10 back for sure, and IMO likely a top 5 back in this league. Either way, I got me a gripe. Marshawn f'ing Lynch? Yes, I realize how he went on to revitalize his career in Seattle. I am sure not much has changed. Maybe it is going unreported and Pete Carrol is a bit of a slouch on the toughness. He did coach at USC, after all. I do not think Marrone would take his crap, though. I would have still liked to had him on this team. Lynch and Jackson on this team and not Spiller. DE's Pierre-Paul, Brandon Graham, WR's Demaryius Thomas, even Dez Bryant were available and we needed DE's and WR's in 2010. We drafted Spiller. But, I'm glad he is here and I really like what he brings to the table. This brings me to my biggest point. Fred Jackson. This guy is the most unappreciated player in the NFL. He has his fans, myself among them, who realize he is one of the top 5 most important backs in the league. Obviously, AP is #1. But, you know AP is going to run it down your throat every single time and you won't expect much else. He'll catch some and he might block now and then. Fred Jackson might not be as good as AP but he is more consistent on all levels contributing to his team more by being a much more well rounded player on a team that has more then one dynamic. Earlier in the off season I was mocked for saying Fred Jackson is better then Alfred Morris. I knew Morris was a byproduct of RGIII. RGIII is struggling this year and Alfred Morris is, too. Fred Jackson on that team might struggle, too. But, their stats are not that far off. Yes, I get there are 50 yards of difference but Morris does not split the carries like Jackson. Morris: 72 carries, 377 yards, 3 TD's Jackson: 75 carries, 344 yards, 4 TD's Look at other backs on that top 15 list. Fred Jackson is number 16 in total rushing yards. McCoy has 123 carries, 5.1 average gain Lynch 138 carries, 4.2 average Foster 117 carries, 4.5 average Peterson 102 carrries, 4.7 average Gore 103 carries, 4.6 average Charles, 114 carries, 4.2 average Forte 100 carries, 4.4 average Murray 91 carries, 4.7 average Martin 116 carries, 3.5 average D. Williams 91 carries, 4.3average Morris 72 carries, 5.2 average Bush 78 carries, 4.8 average Moreno 80 carries, 4.7 average Powell 87 carries, 4.2 average Spiller 84 carries, 4.2 yards F. Jackson 75 carries, 4.6 average It is pretty safe to assume if Jackson got more carries as was the single back on the team his average would go down. Ok, so lets say he gets a meager 4 yards per carry. Lets take the top 15 backs and average their carries that is roughly 100 carries. 100 carries for 4 yards a carry Fred Jackson has 400 yards and becomes the 10th best RB. Ok, that's still not good enough for me to convince anyone he's a top 5 back. I have no way to grade his blocking against other RB's, but I am sure we can all admit he COULD be among the top 5 blocking. That he COULD means you admit there is reason to continue this... Receiving yards are different... 35. Sproles 54. Charles 65. Woodhead 66. Bush 72. Joique Bell *yeah! 73. Forte 76. McCoy 106. Pierre Thomas 107. Ellington 109. Moreno 114. Foster 117. Lynch 120. Jackson That puts Jackson at 13th in catches for RB's. (CJ Spiller has only 40 yards receiving from 11 catches). Jackson has received 57% of the offensive snaps for the Bills @ 39 snaps. http://www.footballo...tats/snapcounts That is 23rd most among RB's. Charles - 60 Lacy - 59 Gore - 57 Forte - 57 Foster - 56 Moreno - 54 Bush - 52 Lynch - 51 Bernard - 50 McCoy - 50 C.Johnson - 50 McFadden - 49 MJD - 49 L.Bell - 47 Rice - 46 Martin - 45 D.Williams - 44 Helu - 43 Mathews - 40 Jackson - 39 That's 20th for Jackson. Look to the lists above...Jackson has had less playing time then almost all of those RB's and still contributed more. Those who have: Forte is an all around stud back. He has the runs and the pass catching ability that makes him amazing. His blocking is average, from what I know. McCoy is doing very well, too. From what I remember, he lacks in the pass blocking, though. He isn't lighting it up with the chances to perform, though, compared to others who are not as good as he is. 50 snaps. Lynch, well we all know him. He's very good and average to above average pass protecting when he wants to do so. He has a ton of carries and lots of snaps, Foster is pretty good all around, he's having a hard time blocking boneheaded Schuab in Houston, though. Not his fault, neccessarily. But, he has a lot more carries, and significantly more snaps. AP only has 73 yards receiving. And, well, he's not a great blocker. He's still a better back because he runs so damn well. He also has less snaps then FJ - 37. Well, anyway, you get the point. There are a few players in the league who have had done more with less or on the same scale as Fred Jackson. Oh, and there is also this, where Football Outsiders ranks him the 5th back in the league. http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/rb Edited October 19, 2013 by jboyst62
jwolf02 Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Yep, I said it. This is not part of the unpopular opinions thread. I went to start a post in the adults section about football and realized it's too good not to post to be ridiculed, mocked and laughed at here. So, have at it. I am not out to make some campaign that he's as good as he is or try to start some big feud. I am just taking some stats I find. It started with all the stuff I saw about Lynch, it continued from this past off season when I kept saying how good Jackson is and got mocked saying so many other backs are better. Well, I am back to say it again. Fred Jackson is a top 10 back for sure, and IMO likely a top 5 back in this league. Either way, I got me a gripe. Marshawn f'ing Lynch? Yes, I realize how he went on to revitalize his career in Seattle. I am sure not much has changed. Maybe it is going unreported and Pete Carrol is a bit of a slouch on the toughness. He did coach at USC, after all. I do not think Marrone would take his crap, though. I would have still liked to had him on this team. Lynch and Jackson on this team and not Spiller. DE's Pierre-Paul, Brandon Graham, WR's Demaryius Thomas, even Dez Bryant were available and we needed DE's and WR's in 2010. We drafted Spiller. But, I'm glad he is here and I really like what he brings to the table. This brings me to my biggest point. Fred Jackson. This guy is the most unappreciated player in the NFL. He has his fans, myself among them, who realize he is one of the top 5 most important backs in the league. Obviously, AP is #1. But, you know AP is going to run it down your throat every single time and you won't expect much else. He'll catch some and he might block now and then. Fred Jackson might not be as good as AP but he is more consistent on all levels contributing to his team more by being a much more well rounded player on a team that has more then one dynamic. Earlier in the off season I was mocked for saying Fred Jackson is better then Alfred Morris. I knew Morris was a byproduct of RGIII. RGIII is struggling this year and Alfred Morris is, too. Fred Jackson on that team might struggle, too. But, their stats are not that far off. Yes, I get there are 50 yards of difference but Morris does not split the carries like Jackson. Morris: 72 carries, 377 yards, 3 TD's Jackson: 75 carries, 344 yards, 4 TD's Look at other backs on that top 15 list. Fred Jackson is number 16 in total rushing yards. McCoy has 123 carries, 5.1 average gain Lynch 138 carries, 4.2 average Foster 117 carries, 4.5 average Peterson 102 carrries, 4.7 average Gore 103 carries, 4.6 average Charles, 114 carries, 4.2 average Forte 100 carries, 4.4 average Murray 91 carries, 4.7 average Martin 116 carries, 3.5 average D. Williams 91 carries, 4.3average Morris 72 carries, 5.2 average Bush 78 carries, 4.8 average Moreno 80 carries, 4.7 average Powell 87 carries, 4.2 average Spiller 84 carries, 4.2 yards F. Jackson 75 carries, 4.6 average It is pretty safe to assume if Jackson got more carries as was the single back on the team his average would go down. Ok, so lets say he gets a meager 4 yards per carry. Lets take the top 15 backs and average their carries that is roughly 100 carries. 100 carries for 4 yards a carry Fred Jackson has 400 yards and becomes the 10th best RB. Ok, that's still not good enough for me to convince anyone he's a top 5 back. I have no way to grade his blocking against other RB's, but I am sure we can all admit he COULD be among the top 5 blocking. That he COULD means you admit there is reason to continue this... Receiving yards are different... 35. Sproles 54. Charles 65. Woodhead 66. Bush 72. Joique Bell *yeah! 73. Forte 76. McCoy 106. Pierre Thomas 107. Ellington 109. Moreno 114. Foster 117. Lynch 120. Jackson That puts Jackson at 13th in catches for RB's. (CJ Spiller has only 40 yards receiving from 11 catches). Jackson has received 57% of the offensive snaps for the Bills @ 39 snaps. http://www.footballo...tats/snapcounts That is 23rd most among RB's. Charles - 60 Lacy - 59 Gore - 57 Forte - 57 Foster - 56 Moreno - 54 Bush - 52 Lynch - 51 Bernard - 50 McCoy - 50 C.Johnson - 50 McFadden - 49 MJD - 49 L.Bell - 47 Rice - 46 Martin - 45 D.Williams - 44 Helu - 43 Mathews - 40 Jackson - 39 That's 20th for Jackson. Look to the lists above...Jackson has had less playing time then almost all of those RB's and still contributed more. Those who have: Forte is an all around stud back. He has the runs and the pass catching ability that makes him amazing. His blocking is average, from what I know. McCoy is doing very well, too. From what I remember, he lacks in the pass blocking, though. He isn't lighting it up with the chances to perform, though, compared to others who are not as good as he is. 50 snaps. Lynch, well we all know him. He's very good and average to above average pass protecting when he wants to do so. He has a ton of carries and lots of snaps, Foster is pretty good all around, he's having a hard time blocking boneheaded Schuab in Houston, though. Not his fault, neccessarily. But, he has a lot more carries, and significantly more snaps. AP only has 73 yards receiving. And, well, he's not a great blocker. He's still a better back because he runs so damn well. He also has less snaps then FJ - 37. Well, anyway, you get the point. There are a few players in the league who have had done more with less or on the same scale as Fred Jackson. Oh, and there is also this, where Football Outsiders ranks him the 5th back in the league. http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/rb I agree 1000%, perhaps blindly, but like you I don't care. The guy is a total football player, one of the best.
CSBill Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Preaching to the choir here, no doubt in my mind, for all around effort and contribution (running for key yards, breaking off a few long ones more than expected, receiving, blocking, and the intangible but extremely important leadership qualities), Fred Jackson is one of the best players in the NFL. Under-appreciated? Probably not by his teammates. I think the highest compliment he receives every year is from Bill Belichick. He alway effuses praise on Jackson.
boyst Posted October 19, 2013 Author Posted October 19, 2013 I think the highest compliment he receives every year is from Bill Belichick. He alway effuses praise on Jackson. If I was a moderator I'd ban you for that. I have nightmares that in a few years we will not retain Jackson and I know 100% he will go to NE and perform well. Belichick will squeeze the last drops out of him and Jackson will give his all, because that's what he does...and he'll go to the ProBowl. He'll have tons of yards catching...gosh. I do not want to think of it. That's why I'd ban you. You fueled those nightmares again.
Rubes Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 I think most people here love Freddie, so I can't imagine you'll get a lot of backlash. Maybe at the suggestion he's a top 5 back, but even that isn't terribly controversial. Just perhaps a bit inflated. Personally, I love having both CJ and Freddie. I think Freddie should still be the featured back, and have CJ coming in periodically for a change of pace. I'm comfortable with a 60-40 split between Freddie and CJ.
boyst Posted October 19, 2013 Author Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) I think most people here love Freddie, so I can't imagine you'll get a lot of backlash. Maybe at the suggestion he's a top 5 back, but even that isn't terribly controversial. Just perhaps a bit inflated. Personally, I love having both CJ and Freddie. I think Freddie should still be the featured back, and have CJ coming in periodically for a change of pace. I'm comfortable with a 60-40 split between Freddie and CJ. I got toasted a bunch of times over the off season in a thread where this debate came up. I don't need to put crow on any plate or want anyone to say "hey, I was wrong." I just want to throw some numbers on the board, a few thoughts and share. Oh, and as you got me thinking about it I was going to hold on it. But, 60-40 is right. 60% being Jackson right now. I do not think we need to leave EJ in the backfield without a blocker. Or Lewis, whoever. Jackson being in is a safety valve. A veteran who can do anything well and can take the pressure. Of course, I would want CJ and FJ on the field 50% of the time, though. Edited October 19, 2013 by jboyst62
NoSaint Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Still don't think he's top 5 but he's a very effective back. He's already the oldest back in the league I believe, so I wouldn't worry toooo much about a 34 year old Jackson making us pay too badly
boyst Posted October 19, 2013 Author Posted October 19, 2013 Still don't think he's top 5 but he's a very effective back. He's already the oldest back in the league I believe, so I wouldn't worry toooo much about a 34 year old Jackson making us pay too badly Paging Sammy Morris, Sammy Morris, please.
NoSaint Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Paging Sammy Morris, Sammy Morris, please. Was 34 when he retired. Fred will be 34 when this contract expires. Sammy was 32 the last time he broke 100 yards in a season and 31 the last time he was effective, Next oldest tailbacks are all a full year younger at 31 - mcgahee, Brandon Jacobs, Leon Washington and Ronnie brown... It really put it in perspective when I looked it up during the debate on extending Freddie. I really like the guy but productive at 34 and beyond is a bit of a no mans land even for guys that weren't run into the ground young Edited October 19, 2013 by NoSaint
boyst Posted October 19, 2013 Author Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Was 34 when he retired. Fred will be 34 when this contract expires. Sammy was 32 the last time he broke 100 yards in a season and 31 the last time he was effective, Hmm, revisionist memory. Seemed like he was a lot older then that. Hard to believe the running back by committee Henry, Bryson, Morris existed. Ha. and Philip Crosby! Edited October 19, 2013 by jboyst62
NoSaint Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Hmm, revisionist memory. Seemed like he was a lot older then that. Hard to believe the running back by committee Henry, Bryson, Morris existed. Ha. and Philip Crosby! Totally agree - I have said the same before then earlier this year looked it up and was surprised myself - edited the last post to add a little more on the state of older tailbacks around the league as I knew Fred was getting up there but didnt realize where he was starting to really hit compared to peers. Makes his current success all the more impressive. Edited October 19, 2013 by NoSaint
NewEra Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Agreed. When healthy, Fred is a top 5 back. He does it ALL. Love that man. Hail FREDDDDDD
NoSaint Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Agreed. When healthy, Fred is a top 5 back. He does it ALL. Love that man. Hail FREDDDDDD Is he a homerun threat every time you hand it to him? Otherwise I agree he does it all, but that is a big one that's hard to say yes to. He's a bit more welker than Calvin Johnson for another position that often gets rankings debated -- super reliable, smart, productive but is he top 5? Without a truly elite dimension it's hard to put those hard workers that high for me atleast.
NoSaint Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Ill hash out my closest comparable player - another guy I like a lot. Always has been stuck in a committee but has always been the best all around back in the groups, despite having a top ten pick water bug overshadow his undrafted career- not to mention a more bruiser style first rounder as well. 4.6 yards per carry just like Fred, 234 catches for 1912 yards (essentially the same as Fred's 226 for 1905 ), 24 rushing tds (Fred 23) --- he plays on an offense that's more stacked which helps him (but steals touches from him)..... watch pierre Thomas next week. Guy always gets a couple yards even when it's not there, is a beast in the screen game, great blocker, very good instincts, good character guy - just lacking breakaway speed. Edited October 19, 2013 by NoSaint
NobesBLO13 Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Fred will be on the wall. That makes me very happy.
K D Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Fred has been the best player on the field for us for many years. One of the most underrated players in the league Edited October 19, 2013 by kdiggz
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Fred's problem is durability at this stage of his career. that should be factored in when you rate a RB. He couldn't take as manny carries as AP, etc.
reddogblitz Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Is he a homerun threat every time you hand it to him? Did you see the 16 yard TD run last Sunday? He also broke a long one vs Baltimore I believe it was. Fred breaks 'em too. Fred is also a great pass blocker. I wish Hackett Jr. would runs some screens to him. Dig out some of the "tape" from last year and the year before and study up on the screen with Fred. I remember in the off season many on here saying Fred was over the hill and he should be brought back as a glorified cheerleader.
Leelee Phoenix Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Is he a homerun threat every time you hand it to him? Otherwise I agree he does it all, but that is a big one that's hard to say yes to. He's a bit more welker than Calvin Johnson for another position that often gets rankings debated -- super reliable, smart, productive but is he top 5? Without a truly elite dimension it's hard to put those hard workers that high for me atleast. No, Fred isn't. That's the only thing that holds him back, but it's also the main reason of separation between the elite backs and the rest. And why guys like Fred and Joique went undrafted. I love Fred, but he's not top 5.
maddenboy Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Too many words. And nah. Not top 5. Not top ten. If you're starting a franchise, not hardly. If you've got one game and can choose any back, not hardly. If you're deciding who to Franchise Tag, not hardly. He's good. Which is why he's fortunate enuf to still be getting an NFL paycheck as the oldest RB in football. In no danger of getting cut. Getting the absolute most out of his talent, body, age, etc. But put the pipe down, sir. Love Freddie. But not hardly. Edited October 19, 2013 by maddenboy
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