FireChan Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Rivisionists also point out that if we kept Lynch we would have never had a chance to see all that Fred Jackson had to offer. Which I think is hilarious. CJ Spiller is 1 year younger then Lynch and it is not like Lynch could not have been a more featured back by this point as Jackson began to see limited time. I'd rather be seeing Lynch getting the reps that Spiller is because Lynch is a more versatile back that has more then 1 tool in his bag. Well said. We had no reason to ditch Lynch. Look at how many teams out there keep players of his level and just wade out the rough spots. Wade out the rough spots? Hmm. Like Chad Johnson/Ochocinco? He's not so bad, oh wait, domestic abuse. Like AH on the Pats? Murder charges. Aldon Smith? Rehab. Wasn't there two other Pats players arrested this year? Brandon Jacobs, so what he's a little bit of a diva, oh wait he held out on the Giants and ditched the team for the 49ers. "Wading through the rough spots" blows up in team's faces every year. Imagine if we didn't trade Marshawn and he broke the law and got suspended. And the picks we could've gotten for him were two superstar players. You'd be saying, "they should have known, this FO is stupid." Hindsight is always 20/20 Marshawn was good in Buffalo. He didn't look like he does now because we didn't have the team Seattle does. If our GM's mentality was "we suck at drafting, so trading him away will give us nothing," that'd be ridiculous. I thoroughly believe he would have never ever ever ever ever produced here like he's doing in Seattle. So it's moot to me.
Gasjuggler Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 At the time Freddy had it all over him. Freddy could run better, receive better, block and pick up the blitz better. Then there is the character issues. It was easy to see ML Was going the way of MaGahee and Travis Henry both excellent RBS.
thewildrabbit Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 I can say as a local new orleanian (and well familiar with the cities reaction to marshawn knocking the saints out of the playoffs while the saints had pierre thomas, reggie bush, and chris ivory hurt -- street free agent ladell betts knocked out and fellow street free agent julius jones as the leading rusher against the hawks backed up by bills cut joique bell who was signed in January......) that i do not think the "bills refused to return calls from loomis" is an actual thing. it really seems like the worst case scenario thats been portrayed is that we missed on a 3rd rounder from either the defending or next super bowl champs (ie expected LATE picks) and instead ended up with a 4 and 5 from a team that finish 7-9 even with him, but happened to make it to the second round of the playoffs pushing the picks much later. if that is something worth begrudging for years, then have at it. Do I resent a bumbling hick fool as a Bills GM, then heck yea! I probably always will. The guy has a long list of major mistakes as a GM. Like I said, I'll always remember the Stew Barber screw ups too. Nix wasn't a complete waste of space as he did revamp the Bills scouting dept and got rid of chief scout Tom Modrak. Whats another 3 years wasted in the grand scheme of things, as he didn't turn around anything.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 The Bills got Tank Carder and Chris Hairston with the Lynch trade picks. Discuss. Tank could have been good in this defense, I think he made a good play against us in the Cleveland game.
machine gun kelly Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 It was a bad trade at the time and it is a bad trade now. I remember coming on here and people doing "take whatever you can get" & "get that bum out of here" routine that we have become accustomed to. They LOVED the deal at the time. It's the same people that say "trade Byrd for bus tires" and then he will go back to the Pro Bowl & those people will be the loudest to complain about it. The bottom line is that you need to get equal value when making a trade. If there was not equal value for Lynch (or at least comparable) you wait it out. The same goes for Byrd. I have put it on here before but I was told the best offer was Minnesota's 4th. IMO, that would be a terrible trade. If they were to make it though so many people on this board would love it. In the middle of next year they will be irate that all that they got for Byrd was some backup LB special teamer. Be careful what you wish for. Good points. I just don't get these posters who always want to trade our best talent. It's not like anyone is giving a 1st round for a safety. Make him play, and if needed franchise him again or keep negotiations open and give him a fair contract. He should get paid in the 7 mil range. That's less the Goldson, but he was overpaid.
CardinalScotts Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Look on the bright side; we also gave them a draft pick for a QB that we never used. ya that coveted 7th rounder
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 The Bills got Tank Carder and Chris Hairston with the Lynch trade picks. Discuss. Yes. Yes, they did. In hindsight, this is the classic definition of a "bad trade" At the time, the guy was wearing out his welcome in the Buffalo community behaving like a thug (bad PR for the Bills) He the unit definition of "phoning it in" on the field for us He may or may not have been setting up as a 'locker room flu bug' (veteran teaching bad 'tude to the new players while the coach tries to turn it around) So we got him out of town, got something for him, and he's been able to turn it around and turn it on for Seattle. In principle, win-win - it's not Lynch's fault that we drafted "meh" talent with the picks. The only controversy, really, is that other teams at the time had indicated they would have given more.
starrymessenger Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 Hard to know what really went down, but there was some scuttlebutt at the time that Buddy had passed on players because he wanted picks and that the Pack had dangled James Jones who was in the doghouse for some drops. That would have been a better trade.
NoSaint Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Yes. Yes, they did. In hindsight, this is the classic definition of a "bad trade" At the time, the guy was wearing out his welcome in the Buffalo community behaving like a thug (bad PR for the Bills) He the unit definition of "phoning it in" on the field for us He may or may not have been setting up as a 'locker room flu bug' (veteran teaching bad 'tude to the new players while the coach tries to turn it around) So we got him out of town, got something for him, and he's been able to turn it around and turn it on for Seattle. In principle, win-win - it's not Lynch's fault that we drafted "meh" talent with the picks. The only controversy, really, is that other teams at the time had indicated they would have given more. And even then - if we assume that Green Bay or saints would've been a favorite for the NFC with him that's 3rd round, around pick 30. If we assume Seattle is a 7-9 team that doesn't make it to the 2nd round of the playoffs that's around pick 10 or so of the round. The high/mid 4th and 5th is worth pretty close to the late 3rd. In fact pick 32 (Green Bay won the big game even without marshawn) vs pick 10 (7-9 but not in the playoffs) the package we took would've been worth more on the trade chart than the 3rd rounder, for instance. That of course assuming you believe "we didnt know he was on the market" coming from an nfl GM - which I think is nonsense. Edited October 19, 2013 by NoSaint
Bills Fan since '64 Posted October 19, 2013 Author Posted October 19, 2013 At the time I would have taken a 3rd round pick. I agree. But I'd rather have used the Spiller 1st round pick for an OL or another star player at a position of weakness (instead of drafting a RB when we had two starters already). Then we wouldn't have had to trade Lynch and scratch our heads trying to remember why we drafted Tank Carder.
thewildrabbit Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 I agree. But I'd rather have used the Spiller 1st round pick for an OL or another star player at a position of weakness (instead of drafting a RB when we had two starters already). Then we wouldn't have had to trade Lynch and scratch our heads trying to remember why we drafted Tank Carder. If you look at the roster for 2010 you would see several areas of desperate need LT, RT, CB, OLB, and the two biggest areas of need QB and pass rusher. RB was already a strength in the team, and Spiller didn't become useful until a year and a half later. So much for the Gailey / Nix rebuild.
Simon Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 I agree. But I'd rather have used the Spiller 1st round pick for an OL or another star player at a position of weakness (instead of drafting a RB when we had two starters already). Then we wouldn't have had to trade Lynch and scratch our heads trying to remember why we drafted Tank Carder. Lynch was a goner well before the draft that brought Spiller here. Regardless of what the Bills had done with that first round pick, Marshawn had already played his last game in Buffalo. It was a done deal the minute that Buddy became GM.
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted October 19, 2013 Posted October 19, 2013 The trade makes me so sick to this day I refuse to watch a Seattle game. I honestly don't care if Lynch succeeds or fails. Now Donte on the other hand. I wish nothing BUT losing seasons for him. But we all see how my wishes are coming along. Same goes for McGayhee. Loved the guy at first, we took a chance on him, healed him up, got him to start and the boy wants to leave cuz of Buffalo not having a night life or whatever. With all that money you can turn your house into a club any night you want. I never understood that about athletes. Why go out and risk drunk driving and getting caught, when you could throw nice parties in your own house. Instead of "poppin bottles" in the club at like 300 bucks each, you can buy 6 bottles of Moet. I don't know.
enlightener Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) both mcgahee and lynch looked like crap after their second year, then both turned it on after being traded, the picks we got also allowed us to take whomever we got before or after hairston and carder, or we might have taken them anyway with other picks, and lost out on the other two guys we nabbed (don't remember who now) Also, I never liked ML and freds still almost as good as he is and we have spiller to boot as a change up back, ML was too much like fred at the time, slow and plodding. He hadn't broken a long gain in several games when we finally got rid of him. Edited October 20, 2013 by enlightener
ganesh Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 Lynch was a goner well before the draft that brought Spiller here. Regardless of what the Bills had done with that first round pick, Marshawn had already played his last game in Buffalo. It was a done deal the minute that Buddy became GM. The head-scratching question is : Why?
Thurman#1 Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 (edited) That's nothing but revisionist history IMO. Lynch got into a couple scrapes, but, the truth of the matter is he was traded because Chanix wanted a shiny new toy. They didn't give a rats ass that the Bills were stacked at only one position at the time. They didn't care that they were switching defense. They chose a player in the first round of their first draft who plays a position they didn't have a need at. It was and it is a stupid, egotistical, arrogant pick. And before everyone jumps down my throat about Spiller...I like the guy, but it doesn't change the facts. Sure bringing in Spiller played into that decision to trade him. But they could have kept Marshawn around for a while and traded him for more down the line, or traded him for more before the season when they still had a bit of leverage. There was nothing about the Spiller pick (I didn't like it either at the time) that forced them to make the Marshawn trade right then. What forced them to make the Marshawn trade right then was that he seemed like a developing train wreck. He didn't even look good on the field. No possible way could they have franchised him or given him a good long-term deal with the way things were going. Look at his YPA: 2007: 4.0 2008: 4.1 2009: 3.8 2010: 3.6 2010 was the crucial year, and he was very up and down. Four games in Buffalo, averageing 4.4 YPA, but he was 3/13 against Miami, averaged 3.76 yards on 17 carries against the Pack, had an excellent game against the Pats* and went 4 rushes for 8 yards against the Jets, Up and down. Including his time in Seattle that year, he averaged 3.6 YPA. One good game of those four, and not much better the rest of the year, in Seattle. The next year he started his turnaround. And has everyone forgotten about the $20 bill incident that made the news at that time, where a cop's wife asked him for an autograph and he asked her for a $20 to autograph and then wouldn't give it back? And the stories that he was bringing booze into bars? NIne times out of ten when people say this, it's pure sour grapes, but for once it's true ... Marshawn really didn't want to be here. And it looked like he headed in the wrong direction, and fast. It's great he's turned things around, though we still can't be sure. He had yet another incident in Seattle, where he was parked illegally and the car was filled with marijuana smoke. Hope he's got it together, but it's too early to be sure, and it seems like getting out of Buffalo may well have been a part of his turning it around. Edited October 20, 2013 by Thurman#1
Bob in STL Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 Sure bringing in Spiller played into that decision to trade him. But they could have kept Marshawn around for a while and traded him for more down the line, or traded him for more before the season when they still had a bit of leverage. There was nothing about the Spiller pick (I didn't like it either at the time) that forced them to make the Marshawn trade right then. What forced them to make the Marshawn trade right then was that he seemed like a developing train wreck. He didn't even look good on the field. No possible way could they have franchised him or given him a good long-term deal with the way things were going. Look at his YPA: 2007: 4.0 2008: 4.1 2009: 3.8 2010: 3.6 2010 was the crucial year, and he was very up and down. Four games in Buffalo, averageing 4.4 YPA, but he was 3/13 against Miami, averaged 3.76 yards on 17 carries against the Pack, had an excellent game against the Pats* and went 4 rushes for 8 yards against the Jets, Up and down. Including his time in Seattle that year, he averaged 3.6 YPA. One good game of those four, and not much better the rest of the year, in Seattle. The next year he started his turnaround. And has everyone forgotten about the $20 bill incident that made the news at that time, where a cop's wife asked him for an autograph and he asked her for a $20 to autograph and then wouldn't give it back? And the stories that he was bringing booze into bars? NIne times out of ten when people say this, it's pure sour grapes, but for once it's true ... Marshawn really didn't want to be here. And it looked like he headed in the wrong direction, and fast. It's great he's turned things around, though we still can't be sure. He had yet another incident in Seattle, where he was parked illegally and the car was filled with marijuana smoke. Hope he's got it together, but it's too early to be sure, and it seems like getting out of Buffalo may well have been a part of his turning it around. Good post. The Spiller pick and Lynch trade was also about what happens when you change regimes. Out with the old, in with the new. We drafted Spiller #1. Lynch had character issues. No way were we tying up more big $$ in the RB position. On top of that Fred Jackson was looking very good and brought in the kind of chartacter that teams like. In hindsight we did not get enough but Lynch was a timebomb that could have regressed further in the wrong environment. A healthy Hairston may end as a solid starting RT someday. Time will tell.
Doc Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 The head-scratching question is : Why? Probably because his last full season in Buffalo he averaged just 3.8 YPC and scored just 2 TD's, had just had a 2nd off-field incident that cost him 3 games, and Buddy knew that he needed a change of scenery.
Bills Fan since '64 Posted October 20, 2013 Author Posted October 20, 2013 When Marv was GM, he drafted only "character guys." How'd that work out?
vincec Posted October 20, 2013 Posted October 20, 2013 When Marv was GM, he drafted only "character guys." How'd that work out? A lot better than any other strategy the Bills have employed since.
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