Some Scattered Thoughts About The Buffalo Bills Offense.....

[thewildrabbit]

Thanks.

 

Many people have been saying different things and defending him fearlessly. I get he is injured and I get he is trying to play through it but when I watch him he still does not seem to have what he had the last two years. He seemed slower. But, he moved more tentatively and he did not cut to lanes as crisply - was it because he was scared to test the injury or was it that he could not do it or that he does not have that vision? Part of me also thinks he doesn't have the same confidence. Maybe just maybe Gailey was able to extract the player out of Spiller to bring out the very best. Without whatever that confidence and factor might have been I think it's made a difference.

I look at Spiller and see just about the exact same player as he was in 2012. If there is a difference it is in the current O line, blocking schemes, and offensive philosophy.

 

First, LG Colin Brown was by far the worst player on the team and the result was not being able to run from that left side like they had last season. Then, the Bills new OC was determined to run Spiller even when defenses were stacking the box and keying on him to stop him. Which they did rather effectively at times.

 

Game one, the Patriots held him to 41 yards on 17 attempts, a 2.4 YPC avg. a far cry from his 6.0 YPC avg from 2012. Spiller was used to running from those 4-5 WR shotgun spread passing sets under Gailey to Hackett keeping a TE to help with the pass rush for EJ. Different offensive sets make a big difference.

 

Game two, the Panthers didn't stack the box or key on Spiller and he had 16 rushes for 103 yards. The Panthers seemed more intent on stopping Fred Jackson as he had 12 attempts for 30 yards. Then if you look at the rushes from the LG, it was 5 rushes for 3 yards. RG had 10 rushes for 89 yards. another compelling reason as to why Colin Brown stunk so bad.

 

Game three, the Jets annihilated Spiller by keying on him, 10 rushes for 9 yards, Fred Jackson 7 rushes for 72 yards

 

Game four the Bills ran well against the Ravens, FJax 16 for 87, Spiller 23 for 77

[Coach Tuesday]

I am pretty sure that if they decide they need to add Colin Brown back to the roster to back up the center position later on in the season, he'll still be available. Here's hoping he's spending his free time doing squats...

[boyst]

I look at Spiller and see just about the exact same player as he was in 2012. If there is a difference it is in the current O line, blocking schemes, and offensive philosophy.

 

First, LG Colin Brown was by far the worst player on the team and the result was not being able to run from that left side like they had last season. Then, the Bills new OC was determined to run Spiller even when defenses were stacking the box and keying on him to stop him. Which they did rather effectively at times.

 

Game one, the Patriots held him to 41 yards on 17 attempts, a 2.4 YPC avg. a far cry from his 6.0 YPC avg from 2012. Spiller was used to running from those 4-5 WR shotgun spread passing sets under Gailey to Hackett keeping a TE to help with the pass rush for EJ. Different offensive sets make a big difference.

 

Game two, the Panthers didn't stack the box or key on Spiller and he had 16 rushes for 103 yards. The Panthers seemed more intent on stopping Fred Jackson as he had 12 attempts for 30 yards. Then if you look at the rushes from the LG, it was 5 rushes for 3 yards. RG had 10 rushes for 89 yards. another compelling reason as to why Colin Brown stunk so bad.

 

Game three, the Jets annihilated Spiller by keying on him, 10 rushes for 9 yards, Fred Jackson 7 rushes for 72 yards

 

Game four the Bills ran well against the Ravens, FJax 16 for 87, Spiller 23 for 77

Well, for those that like PFF then they know that Brown graded pretty well at run blocking. For those that do not and enjoy watching football then they will have noticed the same thing.

[Wattdogg35]

It will also be his first road win in three attempts....I hope they pull it off. The OL needs to play well. I don't know if this D-line can be on the field for 43 minutes in Humid South Florida.

 

 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<THIS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Our offense is not exactly fine...With quick strikes and way *TOO MANY* three and outs, we keep our defense on the field for TOO long. They need to grind it out and have control of TOP. ANd the offense needs to know how to close out a game.

With the type of Defense we play, (heavy blitzing, "up tempo" so to speak) we need a run heavy Offense, but one that also stays on the field and burns up clock. our D is not the type to get stop after stop, so if we can get a lead and just get first downs, the results will be much better. Our D is all about schemes and if they are tired and can't burst and blitz properly, then very avg. QB's (Andy Dalton) will look like Allstars against us. One thing is for sure, we need to run more screens and get CJ in space, he's the type of guy if you give him a few yards he's unstoppable, but behind the line, he's below avg. The play calling was better last week, hope they keep progressing with that in mind. The "trick" play we ran against the Browns was a nice surprise, keep the D honest and run something like that once a game, this way when you actually do run the reverse or end around it may actually work! GO BILLS!!!

[Cash]

I also find it a little funny that last year we didn't want all that passing and wanted to feed Fred and CJ. This year we are are, but many posters want us to pass more and run less. We are #3 in the league in rushing. I kindof like this run heavy attack. Would be working better if our defense and kicking teams would pick up their game.

 

I don't know if many people want us to run less so much as be less predictable in running. I think we run on first down too much. If your run game is super-successful, like it was on the one drive last week, then that's fine. Just run all day till they stop it. But that won't happen very often, and if you're too predictable, it'll be tough to succeed. I actually thought the playcalling was significantly better last week than it had been throughout the year. More first-down passes, some playaction, some screens... I liked what I saw. Hopefully this is a sign of Hackett getting better at his job.

 

Our offense is not exactly fine...With quick strikes and way *TOO MANY* three and outs, we keep our defense on the field for TOO long. They need to grind it out and have control of TOP. ANd the offense needs to know how to close out a game.

 

Way too many 3 and outs. And as much as fans love to hang their hats on that 20+ points/game stat, it's kind of a paper tiger. Here are our offensive outputs (ignoring defensive TDs):

 

Week 1: 286 yards, 14 points

Week 2: 436 yards, 24 points

Week 3: 328 yards, 20 points

Week 4: 350 yards, 23 points

Week 5: 343 yards, 24 points

Week 6: 322 yards, 24 points

 

We're 16th in yards/game, 17th in points/game, and 28th in yards/play. If that's "fine", then the bar is set pretty low. Just because the O might not be as bad as the D (and that's debatable) doesn't mean that it's good or doesn't need to improve. There's definitely some things to build on on the offense, but it's a long way from a finished product.

 

Well, for those that like PFF then they know that Brown graded pretty well at run blocking. For those that do not and enjoy watching football then they will have noticed the same thing.

 

Huh?

 

https://www.profootb...car-buf-week-2/

 

"However, like last week, his biggest struggles came against the run."

 

I don't pay for their full stats, so maybe he somehow redeemed himself in weeks 3-5 despite posting another atrocious grade in week 3?

[boyst]

Huh?

 

https://www.profootb...car-buf-week-2/

 

"However, like last week, his biggest struggles came against the run."

 

I don't pay for their full stats, so maybe he somehow redeemed himself in weeks 3-5 despite posting another atrocious grade in week 3?

Maybe, "huh." I forget who it is, Kemp2Warlick maybe who posts a lot of their stuff and I remember reading that he has been grading out better against the run and doing good jobs. Maybe I am misremembering - I have lost a lot of faith in PFF. PFF does very well with offensive skill player grading and awful at Defensive and OL grading.

[Marv Levy]

Hacket runs too many vanilla plays. Especially 3 in a row, running up the middle into the pile for no gain. Evidence is on the goal line series, 2nd qtr, against Cincy last weekend. Horrible play calling!

[thewildrabbit]

Well, for those that like PFF then they know that Brown graded pretty well at run blocking. For those that do not and enjoy watching football then they will have noticed the same thing.

Did he? Got a link for that grading? Because from the PFF grades I saw the guy was negative -23.7 after week three. Which is astoundingly bad.

 

"" LG Colin Brown who is now grading at -23.7 through three games. ""

 

Just to sorta put that grade in perspective. CB Justin Rodgers allowed "" Rogers was targeted eight times and surrendered six receptions for an absurd 247 yards. That represents 74% of the Jets’ gross passing total."" Rodgers finished that day with a negative -5.3 coverage grade.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/09/23/refo-buf-nyj-week-3/

 

undrafted rookie QB Jeff Tuel looked like a deer in headlights, threw a bunch of turf balls against Cleveland. "" Jeff Tuel failed to impress (-4.9). Entering the game midway through the third quarter for E.J. Manuel"

 

 

I recently read some articles that stated LG Colin Brown was the worst player in the NFL this season. Divide that -23.7 by 3 and its a -7.9 per game!

 

Hacket runs too many vanilla plays. Especially 3 in a row, running up the middle into the pile for no gain. Evidence is on the goal line series, 2nd qtr, against Cincy last weekend. Horrible play calling!

Currently Buffalo has the #3 rushing offense in the NFL after 6 games, and the #15 offense in overall yards. They also took that Cincy game into overtime with a QB right off the practice squad.

 

Dunno about you, but I'm willing to cut this new OC some slack considering the combined playing experience of his 3 young QB's, EJ, Tuel, Thad.

 

Plus, it may take awhile to get all his players more proficient in this new offensive scheme.

 

 

 

P.S. The Bills finished #19 in offense last year under Gailey. #25 passing, #6 rushing.

[tennesseeboy]

1) For the record, I would not have cut Colin Brown. He filled in for a while at OC and didn't play poorly. Do you people remember when Levitre (and I remain a huge fan of him) played center? He couldn't do it. Brown could. And Woods is looking VERY good this season, but let's not forget that he is prone to injury, OK?

 

2) Marrone needs to back away from the hurry-up. It makes no sense to go with a huge OL and rely too much on an offense that will tire them out, let alone wear down the defense if and when they don't make first downs. This with inexperienced quarterbacks.

 

3) The QB situation is strange, it really is. EJ is more talented than Lewis imo. In fact, I see little doubt. BUT, when he returns, he needs to be coached up BIG TIME. EJ throws (from what I have observed)primarily ropes with little air under them. This takes away from his "touch."

 

4) RG111 has proven 2 things to me:

1) Running QBs can win football games in this league. There is a real place for them.

2) Running QBs can easily get hurt.

Lewis can run. He really can, and with EJ waiting in the wings, I see little risk in taking advantage of these skills. Marrone should, imo, let him loose and call plenty of designed QB running plays. I say this because I want the Buffalo Bills to win football games.

 

5) Cameron Wake is back. I think that plays should be designed for Glenn to kick his ass.

 

6) I hope that Spiller can get loose and win us this game.

 

7) This game, imo, is a big test for Marrone.

 

8) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree that this game is a big test for Marrone. We have to win our division or at least win a bag of division games to get to the playoffs and Miami wil tell us whether we are in the mix. It should be an interesting game and I hope Lewis makes a name for himself in this one. I also hope Gilmore is out of his club for the game or that the defensive coaches have sense enough not to put him on the field in that condition.

[Orton's Arm]

Our offense is fine. I would like to see us open it up a little bit more and get 30 points some game. Maybe Sunday since the Fish D is almost as bad as ours. Maybe then we could win.

 

All the talk of the offense and Hackett is really no different than last year when there was much consternation about Fitz and the offense while the D was historically bad. This year our offense is putting up 20+ points against good defenses. Meanwhile our defense ranks in the bottom 1/4th of the league and we crow about the offense. Add to that our kicking teams are now giving up games with bad punt return coverage. This is where the real problems with the team lie, not the offense or play calling.

 

I also find it a little funny that last year we didn't want all that passing and wanted to feed Fred and CJ. This year we are are, but many posters want us to pass more and run less. We are #3 in the league in rushing. I kindof like this run heavy attack. Would be working better if our defense and kicking teams would pick up their game.

 

The problem with the rankings you're using is that they're based on yards per game. Why is that a problem, you ask.

 

It's a problem because the Bills are using a no-huddle. In fact, they're using a very fast-paced no-huddle. That approach artificially inflates the number of snaps per game. Artificially increasing the number of snaps per game makes the offense look better than it deserves, and the defense look worse than it deserves, at least if you're using per-game stats. The solution is to use per play stats, because those don't get distorted by the no huddle.

 

Thus far this season, Manuel has averaged 6.6 yards per pass attempt. That's slightly better than Trent Edwards' career average of 6.5 yards per attempt, and slightly worse than the 6.7 - 6.8 yards per attempt Fitz typically averaged under Gailey. Our passing game is slightly less effective this season than it's been the last few seasons. As for the running game: Spiller's average yards per carry this season is much worse than it was last season. Yeah, Fred Jackson is doing better. But the improvement in the Fred Jackson running game is not enough to offset the decline in the Spiller running game and the decline in the passing game.

 

On the other hand, the defense is allowing significantly fewer yards per carry this season than it did last year.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Edwards' Arm

[Rubes]

Currently Buffalo has the #3 rushing offense in the NFL after 6 games, and the #15 offense in overall yards. They also took that Cincy game into overtime with a QB right off the practice squad.

 

Dunno about you, but I'm willing to cut this new OC some slack considering the combined playing experience of his 3 young QB's, EJ, Tuel, Thad.

 

Plus, it may take awhile to get all his players more proficient in this new offensive scheme.

 

 

 

P.S. The Bills finished #19 in offense last year under Gailey. #25 passing, #6 rushing.

 

Interesting point, there. Under the offensive genius that was Chan Gailey last year, the Bills achieved:

 

Total Yds/G - 342.9 (19th)

Rush Yds/G - 138.6 (6th)

Pass Yds/G - 204.3 (25th)

Points/G - 21.5 (21st)

 

So far this year, under the rookie OC Hackett with the rookie QB(s), the Bills have achieved:

 

Total Yds/G - 344.2 (16th)

Rush Yds/G - 148.8 (3rd)

Pass Yds/G - 195.3 (28th)

Points/G - 22.7 (17th)

 

Which is, to be honest, not terribly different. Overall yards per game about the same, slightly more rushing yards per game, slightly fewer passing yards per game. Plus better points per game. (Smaller sample size, I know.)

Edited October 18, 2013 by Rubes

[C.Biscuit97]

1) You need to alternate the speed of the offense. Sometimes you go no huddle, sometimes you don't. Don't be stubborn.

 

2) Get Spiller in space! I like the idea of giving Spiller the ball a lot but catches can be more effective than regular handoffs. You take less of a big hit and Spiller excels in the open field. They need to study Gailey's screens and use Spiller like NO uses Sproles.

 

3) Shots downfield. Don't force it all the time but you need to keep a defense honest. It was good to see this last week. When the safties creep up, that's why you drafted Graham and Goodwin.

[reddogblitz]

Our offense is not exactly fine...With quick strikes and way *TOO MANY* three and outs, we keep our defense on the field for TOO long. They need to grind it out and have control of TOP. ANd the offense needs to know how to close out a game.

 

But ganesh, we are Numbero Uno in the league in TOP at 34:04 average TOP per game. Nobody's D in the whole NFL is on the field less than ours.

 

The D just needs to do it's job the little time it is on the field. They can get off the field more, but it's up to them.

 

IMHO We're not losing because of our offense, but because of our defense and punt coverage team. Tighten those units up, and wins will follow. Of course the offense is not a finished product and needs to improve as well, but that can be said for 31 other offenses in the league as well.

 

Offense: Keep up the good work.

[boyst]

Did he? Got a link for that grading? Because from the PFF grades I saw the guy was negative -23.7 after week three. Which is astoundingly bad.

 

"" LG Colin Brown who is now grading at -23.7 through three games. ""

 

Just to sorta put that grade in perspective. CB Justin Rodgers allowed "" Rogers was targeted eight times and surrendered six receptions for an absurd 247 yards. That represents 74% of the Jets’ gross passing total."" Rodgers finished that day with a negative -5.3 coverage grade.

 

https://www.profootb...buf-nyj-week-3/

 

undrafted rookie QB Jeff Tuel looked like a deer in headlights, threw a bunch of turf balls against Cleveland. "" Jeff Tuel failed to impress (-4.9). Entering the game midway through the third quarter for E.J. Manuel"

 

 

I recently read some articles that stated LG Colin Brown was the worst player in the NFL this season. Divide that -23.7 by 3 and its a -7.9 per game!

I swear I am crazy and I swear I saw something to make me remember he graded well at run blocking. I have no idea for the life of me what I must be mistaking. Now, some wise guy is going to come along and say "oh you must be mistaking them saying he was the worst player ever in the league blablablabla." Probably, but maybe it was something as simple as he graded better this week then last.

 

Crap. I need to start drinking.

[Prickly Pete]

But ganesh, we are Numbero Uno in the league in TOP at 34:04 average TOP per game. Nobody's D in the whole NFL is on the field less than ours.

 

The D just needs to do it's job the little time it is on the field. They can get off the field more, but it's up to them.

 

IMHO We're not losing because of our offense, but because of our defense and punt coverage team. Tighten those units up, and wins will follow. Of course the offense is not a finished product and needs to improve as well, but that can be said for 31 other offenses in the league as well.

 

Offense: Keep up the good work.

 

It's not about stats. It's about the way a game unfolds. It's about "when" plays are made, and "when" opportunities are blown. And it's about building confidence in a team. This offense is no juggernaut, and appears to struggle down the field, even when it scores. They don't score touchdowns after turnovers. It's not smoothly run, and it doesn't put pressure on the other teams offense by even threatening to break a game open. These kinds of thing help a defense.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[reddogblitz]

These kinds of thing help a defense.

Being able to tackle helps a defense. Something our guys couldn't seem to do Sunday whether they had a club on their hand or not.

 

I hope our offense does play better Sunday to help our defense, because heaven knows they need all the help they can get right now.

 

483 yards and 27 points last Sunday was giving me Wannstedt flashbacks.

[Prickly Pete]

Being able to tackle helps a defense. Something our guys couldn't seem to do Sunday whether they had a club on their hand or not.

 

I hope our offense does play better Sunday to help our defense, because heaven knows they need all the help they can get right now.

 

483 yards and 27 points last Sunday was giving me Wannstedt flashbacks.

 

I didn't say they were good, just that the offense isn't any better. Turning a blind eye to the way the games actually unfold, just to point at the amount of points the offense scores, isn't reasonable.

 

I think they are both at about the same stage of development. One hand helps the other. The goal line stand is the perfect example...the offense can't punch it in, looks TERRIBLE, and then the defense lets the other team go all the way down the field.

 

I also think that they have defensive players on the roster right now, that can improve the defense. The offense on the other hand, is developing QB's and I don't expect it to get much better soon.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[reddogblitz]

I didn't say they were good, just that the offense isn't any better. Turning a blind eye to the way the games actually unfold, just to point at the amount of points the offense scores, isn't reasonable.

 

I think they are both at about the same stage of development. One hand helps the other. The goal line stand is the perfect example...the offense can't punch it in, looks TERRIBLE, and then the defense lets the other team go all the way down the field.

 

I also think that they have defensive players on the roster right now, that can improve the defense. The offense on the other hand, is developing QB's and I don't expect it to get much better soon.

 

Please don't take my point as being only based on statistics and points for against. Based on the flow of the game etc, I believe that the offense is miles ahead of the defense right now. That's my opinion.

 

Of the 2 games we won, one was mostly because the offense built up a big enough lead for the defense to protect, which they did. Why can't they play like on a more consistent basis? In the other, the offense came back and won it on the last play. In two of our losses, the defense gave up the lead on the last play of the game. They flat out sucked vs Bungles. Sloppy tackling, bad plan (how did those WR screens work all day?), and bad execution. The offense and kicking teams blew the Clowns game because we had no backup QB. (Some would argue a coaching fail, but I digress.)

 

The offense needs to get better too but, in my opinion ( take it for what it's worth ), the offense is a lot closer to being good and is even pretty darn good right now. I'm not basing that on stats, I'm basing it on moving the football and scoring points vs good defenses.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one I guess.

[Prickly Pete]

Please don't take my point as being only based on statistics and points for against. Based on the flow of the game etc, I believe that the offense is miles ahead of the defense right now. That's my opinion.

 

Of the 2 games we won, one was mostly because the offense built up a big enough lead for the defense to protect, which they did. Why can't they play like on a more consistent basis? In the other, the offense came back and won it on the last play. In two of our losses, the defense gave up the lead on the last play of the game. They flat out sucked vs Bungles. Sloppy tackling, bad plan (how did those WR screens work all day?), and bad execution. The offense and kicking teams blew the Clowns game because we had no backup QB. (Some would argue a coaching fail, but I digress.)

 

The offense needs to get better too but, in my opinion ( take it for what it's worth ), the offense is a lot closer to being good and is even pretty darn good right now. I'm not basing that on stats, I'm basing it on moving the football and scoring points vs good defenses.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one I guess.

 

I am curious RDB, how you saw this Dolphins game, and which unit was pulling the weight?

Edited October 20, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[Alaska Darin]

2) Marrone needs to back away from the hurry-up. It makes no sense to go with a huge OL and rely too much on an offense that will tire them out, let alone wear down the defense if and when they don't make first downs. This with inexperienced quarterbacks.

I would like to see them go "hurry up" once they get at least one, and possibly two first downs. That would allow the defense to sit at least a minute or two longer as well as build a little momentum for the hurry up. This is especially important when you're pinned deep, as it seems the BILLS were most of the game today.