If Moulds restructures and DB gets cut

[jahnyc]

Do we then sign a high-profile free agent to replace Jennings or Pat Williams. I know many of us would like to see Walter Jones in a Buffalo uniform, but what about Tra Thomas? I think Thomas is a free agent and is around the same age as Jones. On defense, if Pat leaves, how about Corey Simon?

 

Whether we turn to JP or DB continues as the starter, we need to upgrade our o-line. Getting a top LT would money well spent and if we draft a LG, we will be much improved on offense.

[clumping platelets]

Moulds restructuring is essential to the off-season. Bledsoe does not need to re-work his deal in order for the Bills to sign FAs to replace P. Williams (who I think will re-sign) or Jennings (who I believe is already packed and moving van gassed up)

[ROCCEO]

I think we have hte cap room regardless. Plenty of teams with less cap room will make bigger free agent signings, don't worry we'll be just fine.

[jahnyc]

I worry about our o-line. I think that the key to our improvement on offense is improving the o-line. McNally can only do so much. It appears that Jennings will leave. LG was a problem all year. We have significant investments in Teague, Villarail and Williams, so they are likely to return and start. Spend the necessary money on a LT and draft a LG. We have the players at the skill positions, and they will all benefit from a stronger o-line.

 

If you look at the current team, where else would we spend money on free agents? We are reasonably set at saftey, cb, linebacker, defensive end, running back, and wide receiver. If we sign Pat, we are probably okay at DT. That leaves TE and the o-line as the greatest needs, particularly if Jennings leaves. Of course we need depth at many positions, but I would propose the fastest way to mprove the team is to improve the o-line.

[KurtGodel77]

What killed the Colts today was dropped passes. When you look up the phrase "dropped passes" in the dictionary, you see Eric Moulds' face staring at you. There is no sense in overpaying a declining and inconsistent veteran like Moulds if doing so costs you the chance to re-sign a Jonas Jennings. TD is a fool if he lets Moulds create an $8.7 million cap hit for next season.

[clumping platelets]

What killed the Colts today was dropped passes. When you look up the phrase "dropped passes" in the dictionary, you see Eric Moulds' face staring at you. There is no sense in overpaying a declining and inconsistent veteran like Moulds if doing so costs you the chance to re-sign a Jonas Jennings. TD is a fool if he lets Moulds create an $8.7 million cap hit for next season.

208318[/snapback]

 

 

Get rid of Moulds and then hand over the QB'ing to a rookie QB.....

 

Moulds is now a solid #2 WR. A re-working of his deal will reflect that

[ROCCEO]

Just to clue you guys in: when people play outdoors, especially when it's cold out, they are going to drop a lot more passes than people who play in 68 degree weather indoors every game.

[nodnarb]

I'd rather have jennings than any FA LT on the market. Maybe walter jones,but he'd be about 30% more expensive, easily.

[jahnyc]

After watching Jennings play the last few years, I still can't figure out how good of a player he is. He is clearly not a pro-bowl player, but seems solid. Has had some injury problems. Seems to do well in pass protection, but the Bills do not run as much to his side. Is this a reflection of his run blocking or the inconsistent play of the LG? Thoughts on how Jennings stacks up?

[scribo]

To me, there is no quesiton about what the Bills MUST do this offseason to take the next step. Re-sign but Pat and let Jennings go.

 

If the TD can get a 2nd rounder for Travis, which I think he will, then we can draft a kicker and a good o-lineman both in the second. Add a couple free agent o-linemen and we're rolling.

[Bill from NYC]

After watching Jennings play the last few years, I still can't figure out how good of a player he is.  He is clearly not a pro-bowl player, but seems solid.  Has had some injury problems.  Seems to do well in pass protection, but the Bills do not run as much to his side.  Is this a reflection of his run blocking or the inconsistent play of the LG?  Thoughts on how Jennings stacks up?

208425[/snapback]

 

Imo, Jennings is a good LT, who is clearly inferior to the likes of Pace, Ogden, Jones, and some others. He is probably a less durable Jason Fabini.

The problem is that so few humans can play LT in the NFL, their salaries are huge. I would be very hesitant to give Jennings "Pace" money. Honestly, I would rather give it to Pace.

Other alternatives are Teague (with a FA LG), or perhaps Hopkins if he is a cap cut as a stop gap.

Either way, I hope to not see the Bills give JJ a 6 year contract for 40 million, which he will likely seek.

[jahnyc]

I agree with you. I would sign Jones, Thomas or Pace rather than re-sign Jennings. I know that it will cost more, but that incremental difference may be worth it for superior play.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

I'd rather have jennings than any FA LT on the market. Maybe walter jones,but he'd be about 30% more expensive, easily.

208354[/snapback]

 

Why?

 

Jennings is a good player, but clearly not in the top 10 OL (thus LT) cap hit range ($7 million average cap hit for the top 5 OL players, $6 million average for the top 10).

 

The Pro Bowl voting obviously has it limitations, but as it includes coaches and player assessments it cannot be disregarded and Jones, Pace and Thomas are all FAs who made it and Jennings didn't. I think this reflects reaity that they are all better and more consistent performers than Jennings.

 

The relative expense of these highly regarded players may be your answer, but this introduces lower paid players into the equation, getting Jennings for near Walter Jones money seems like a less bang for the buck deal than moving Try Teague to LT for Trey Teague money which is far less than Jones or Jennings are likely to receive.

 

So again why?

[Brandon]

Why?

 

Jennings is a good player, but clearly not in the top 10 OL (thus LT) cap hit range ($7 million average cap hit for the top 5 OL players, $6 million average for the top 10).

 

The Pro Bowl voting obviously has it limitations, but as it includes coaches and player assessments it cannot be disregarded and Jones, Pace and Thomas are all FAs who made it and Jennings didn't.  I think this reflects reaity that they are all better and more consistent performers than Jennings.

 

The relative expense of these highly regarded players may be your answer, but this introduces lower paid players into the equation, getting Jennings for near Walter Jones money seems like a less bang for the buck deal than moving Try Teague to LT for Trey Teague money which is far less than Jones or Jennings are likely to receive.

 

So again why?

208667[/snapback]

 

Why? Jennings is a good football player who has proven that he can play that position very effectively. If the Bills let him go, they risk not being able to find a replacement. If they move Teague to LT, assuming he succeeds there (questionable given his time in Denver), who plays C??? You'd just be moving the problem around by doing this, and would likely weaken the overall play of the LT-LG-C portion of the OL in the process. I very seriously doubt Teague will be as good a LT as Jennings.

 

Just bite the bullet and pay the guy, even if it means paying a little too much. The Bills need two good, proven OTs to protect Losman while he's learning. They've got one, Jennings, and Williams is beginning to live up to the draft position. Now is not the time to start tinkering with it.

[GG]

You cannot have this discussion in a vacuum as if free agency did not exist. Jennings' relative value will be set based on the availability of Pace, Jones & Thomas in the free market. If those guys somehow escape their teams, Jennings' contract value will be more in line with his performance. If they're not available, then Jonas jumps to the top of the heap.

 

Good news for TD is that the franchise or extension decisions will have been made by March 2, and he can plot out a strategy for Jonas. He may gamble on franchising him, and try to extract a draft choice compensation.

 

In all probability, I see Bills targeting a solid older vet like Bob Whitfield, Victor Riley or Matt Willig, and again focus the big free agent $$ for a LG.

[Bill from NYC]

Why?  Jennings is a good football player who has proven that he can play that position very effectively.  If the Bills let him go,  they risk not being able to find a replacement.  If they move Teague to LT,  assuming he succeeds there (questionable given his time in Denver),  who plays C???  You'd just be moving the problem around by doing this,  and would likely weaken the overall play of the LT-LG-C portion of the OL in the process.  I very seriously doubt Teague will be as good a LT as Jennings. 

 

Just bite the bullet and pay the guy,  even if it means paying a little too much.  The Bills need two good,  proven OTs to protect Losman while he's learning.  They've got one,  Jennings,  and Williams is beginning to live up to the draft position.  Now is not the time to start tinkering with it.

208690[/snapback]

>>>>> The Bills need two good, proven OTs to protect Losman while he's learning.<<<<<

 

This is of course providing:

1) He is capable of playing, even at a poor level, in the NFL.

2) The premise that nobody brushes up against him and places him in traction while he is walking from his car to the football stadium.

[Brandon]

>>>>> The Bills need two good, proven OTs to protect Losman while he's learning.<<<<<

 

This is of course providing:

1) He is capable of playing, even at a poor level, in the NFL.

2) The premise that nobody brushes up against him and places him in traction while he is walking from his car to the football stadium.

208709[/snapback]

 

Well, if its not Losman, its going to be some other young QB in a year or two who will need that pass protection as well.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

You cannot have this discussion in a vacuum as if free agency did not exist.  Jennings' relative value will be set based on the availability of Pace, Jones & Thomas in the free market.  If those guys somehow escape their teams, Jennings' contract value will be more in line with his performance.  If they're not available, then Jonas jumps to the top of the heap.

 

Good news for TD is that the franchise or extension decisions will have been made by March 2, and he can plot out a strategy for Jonas.  He may gamble on franchising him, and try to extract a draft choice compensation.

 

In all probability, I see Bills targeting a solid older vet like Bob Whitfield, Victor Riley or Matt Willig, and again focus the big free agent $$ for a LG.

208692[/snapback]

 

 

You are right on target in terms of the market determining Jennings value and the LT market isn;t set righ now until there is FA clarity.

 

However, all that Jennings needs is one suitor and he can get a good contract (if he and his agent don't bollicks the offer so I thinking waiting will be tough for him to do). Yet, even before the FAs the market looks pretty tight for him to find that suitor. The siuation is:

 

8 teams have committed long-term contracts to LTs FA on the franchise and transaction list (if anynoe knows th details pleas let us know if any of these players are gone and the cap hits are mere deadspace).

 

I believe about 8 teams (at least) are committed to long term contracts to LTs below the top ten average but too large for them to be easily cut such as the contracts to folks like Clifton and Petitgout which ae at the 5 year/5 million level.

 

Some additional number of teams like AT appear to have openings and needs for an LT (and Jennings want to go there) but in terms of cap room these teams have done things like sign Vick to $100 million+ contracts and signed PP as an FA a couple of years ago which i think will make it hard for them to spend big for an FA.

 

If FAs like Thomas, Jones or Pace hit the market they not only push Jennings down the list but teams like NYG who apparently will have cap room to spend will likely spend big bucks on better players than Jennings.

 

Until, i see some ,arkett analysis which demonstrates there is much of a market for Jennings, i will not be surprised if the low-ball offer he got from TD this off-season is the best he can do and I think the FA results likely make it worse for him. He apparently wants to be an agent and is a smart guy, the Bills may get him for a low amount for us which is still more money than he has ever seen before.

[Fake-Fat Sunny]

Why?  Jennings is a good football player who has proven that he can play that position very effectively.  If the Bills let him go,  they risk not being able to find a replacement.  If they move Teague to LT,  assuming he succeeds there (questionable given his time in Denver),  who plays C???  You'd just be moving the problem around by doing this,  and would likely weaken the overall play of the LT-LG-C portion of the OL in the process.  I very seriously doubt Teague will be as good a LT as Jennings. 

 

Just bite the bullet and pay the guy,  even if it means paying a little too much.  The Bills need two good,  proven OTs to protect Losman while he's learning.  They've got one,  Jennings,  and Williams is beginning to live up to the draft position.  Now is not the time to start tinkering with it.

208690[/snapback]

 

I think we have several options for replacing him:

 

1. Teague's time in Denver did not impress them enough to invest in him at LT, but this was in a season coming off an injury and I think his play at C has improved his understanding of the whole OL and blocking duties. The worries I have about him are actually similar to the injury fears I have about Jennings, butI like his growth at C and actually think his body size, good brain and athleticism lend themselves more to him being an LT than the concerns generated at C where he can be bullrushed and DTs are getting bigger. As far as replacing him at C, I think Tucker did a good job in the spot in relief of Jennings and gets a look there. Also, I'd much rather shop on the FA market for a center than for an LT.

2. MW is playing much better at RT and I think the general thinking was to move him and his contract to LT anyway. He guarded the QBs blindside in college because TX had a left-hander so this duty will not be new to him so I would give him a try in miicamp as well if we are looking for a replacement.

3. The move of MW is attractive because I think we would resign Price to fill the lower responsibility RT slot, but given that he has played adequately at both LT and RT, the question for him being part of the replace Jennings equation is more whether McNally thinks he can do 16.

4. Also, part of the mix for the replacement equation is that if MW or Price are capable of replacing him I think it is unlikely but certainly possible that eitherTucker who actually came into this league and drew attention due to his tackle play and Peters who is on our roster as a tackle are posibilities to fill reserve gaps or RT gaps if we move the players who currently fill them.

5. As I have said in a couple of posts, the LT position has clearly attracted big contracts for many players which gives rise to the real fear that the only way to keep Jennings is to pay alot for him. However, I think one of the side-effects of this LT bidding war is that well over half the leagues have bidded and paid for LTs which I think will reduce the market for Jennings. Add to that the cap constraints which other contracts (like Vick's and Price's) will put on teams bidding big for Jennings. The available FAs (potentially Pace, Jone, Thomas who all made the Pro Bowl and may draw the few teams able to pay big for an LT). I will not be surprised if the market allows a savvy and tough guy like TD to give Jennings more money than he ever had before but still give him a low-ball contract.

 

I simply see the LT question as being difficult for us not because we have so few options but because we have so many.

[jahnyc]

I would not be comfortable with Teague at LT. He is four years older and removed from playing that position in Denver. Williams has improved at RT, but can he be a quality LT (can he handle speed rushers)? I have my doubts. Price is a free agent and is a very good back-up, but probably not a starter. The bottom line is that we need to improve the line, not lose players and then patch it with the players that are left.

 

I also think Jennings will do well in free agency. He can play any of the line positions, is young and o-lineman are making big money now.