ajzepp Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) I'm labeling this as a LAMP post, even though I'm opening the discussion more to hear about others experiences than to talk about mine. I have a prior degree in Psychology, and intelligence is a topic that I remember being very interested in. Although there are some standard IQ tests that are commonly used, I remember having a lecture on the different types of intelligence and how no one test can really encompass each of them. Anyway, in my case, I recall back in 9th grade being called to the guidance counselor's office without warning. I walked in the door and found my parents sitting there staring at me. I was asked to sit down and to explain why I was only earning C's in school. I don't even remember what my reasons were, but they had called me down there because the results of my Standford-Binet test indicated I was in the "very superior" range, which was one step below genius. I don't remember if the number was 132 or 138, but somewhere around there. It was very surreal having both my parents and the counselor seemingly pleased that I had scored so well, but at the same time almost using it against me to say that there was no excuse for my grades being so average-to-poor. So as some of you know from my "Dead Job Walking" thread, I begin a new position on Monday. Yesterday I began going through some old papers that my mom left for me prior to her passing, because I needed my birth certificate and I had no idea where it was. As I'm going through everything, I come across a few very faded papers that I hadn't seen before. As I read through it, I saw where it was actually a copy of my IQ test report, but the number listed on there said "118". My first thought was, "wow, they all lied to me!!! I'm not nearly as smart as they said I was!"...but as I looked more at the sheet, I saw that this was actually a test from when I was 7 years old during the 2nd grade. I took a few years off after high school, but when I eventually went to college I ended up getting significantly higher marks than I did at any time before. I often wonder if it would have been different had I never taken this test that indicated I had more of a ceiling than I gave myself credit for? I grew up moving from state to state and always being the new kid...so school was always very stressful for me up until I finally gained some confidence around my junior year. If I didn't have someone else to tell me I could do better, how would my life be different? What would I be doing? It's a topic I find very interesting because I know that there used to be a school of thought that someone shouldn't be told what their IQ is...I don't know if that still holds true, or if it there ever was a scientific basis for not telling someone, but I'm interested to know about your guys' experiences with this sort of thing. Edited October 10, 2013 by ajzepp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Irrelevant. In this world, intelligence is about as useful as an extra nut sack growing out of your left armpit. The idiots have taken over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 That's pretty funny --- I also had an IQ test in HS, scored about the same as you, and had the exact same "What's wrong with you, you should be a straight A student" conversation with M&D and the guidance staff. I didn't start getting good grades until sophmore year in college after my girlfriend dumped me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 That's pretty funny --- I also had an IQ test in HS, scored about the same as you, and had the exact same "What's wrong with you, you should be a straight A student" conversation with M&D and the guidance staff. I didn't start getting good grades until sophmore year in college after my girlfriend dumped me. LOL, wow, that really is incredibly similar...I didn't start really getting focused until my girl bailed on me, too...small world! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) "It's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care." I think that one just about sums up my thoughts on so much of my school days perfectly. Edited October 10, 2013 by shrader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 This is what happens with a 1 size fits all education system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 If you post anything in this thread you are admitting that you gave a low I.Q. ..... Oh wait... Seriously though I do think that above a certain point I.Q. Is overblown as being important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 So does an IQ test determine your cognitive abilities, or is it a result of the combination of education and ambition? I've never really had an IQ test, so I'm curious as to how it correlates between actuality and capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 No idea what my IQ is. I think good grades happen to more mature people. Lots of people have average grades in elementary/middle/high school and do very well as they go through college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Educational Psychologist here who administers "IQ tests" to children and young adults on a daily basis. When parents ask what "cognitive testing" is (we don't call it IQ testing), I always tell parents that this test will give us an estimate of your child's general intellectual functioning, as well as, a profile of their intellectual strengths and weaknesses." "The cognitive processes that we will be evaluating have been shown, through research, to be critical for learning." The tests that I administer look at verbal expression and reasoning, visual/spatial processing, visual analogous reasoning and problem solving, short-term memory, long-term memory retrieval, and speed of cognitive processing. The reason that we use "IQ testing" in education is that the results are often a very good predictor of academic achievement. Essentially, the tests that I use corrolate highly with standardized tests of academic achievement. Now, there are many reasons that a student could not be achieving up to their measured general cognitive ability. Try telling parents, however, that there child is not learning disabled, they are just lazy. I have administered just about every IQ test there is, and was tested when I was doing my graduate training. This thread is right in my wheel house. Ask questions if you would like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Educational Psychologist here who administers "IQ tests" to children and young adults on a daily basis. When parents ask what "cognitive testing" is (we don't call it IQ testing), I always tell parents that this test will give us an estimate of your child's general intellectual functioning, as well as, a profile of their intellectual strengths and weaknesses." "The cognitive processes that we will be evaluating have been shown, through research, to be critical for learning." The tests that I administer look at verbal expression and reasoning, visual/spatial processing, visual analogous reasoning and problem solving, short-term memory, long-term memory retrieval, and speed of cognitive processing. The reason that we use "IQ testing" in education is that the results are often a very good predictor of academic achievement. Essentially, the tests that I use corrolate highly with standardized tests of academic achievement. Now, there are many reasons that a student could not be achieving up to their measured general cognitive ability. Try telling parents, however, that there child is not learning disabled, they are just lazy. I have administered just about every IQ test there is, and was tested when I was doing my graduate training. This thread is right in my wheel house. Ask questions if you would like... Wow...score! lol One question I would have is whether IQ tends to increase as we get older? It was interesting to me seeing that my IQ at 7 years old measured 118 and then at 132 about eight years later. And also, is the Standford-Binet still in use today? And if so, what is its reputation for accuracy? So does an IQ test determine your cognitive abilities, or is it a result of the combination of education and ambition? I've never really had an IQ test, so I'm curious as to how it correlates between actuality and capacity. I wonder if you've had one but just don't remember? I would have never known it was an IQ test if they hadn't called me into the office to beat me up with it. I thought that most schools/states administered these in some standardized manner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Try telling parents, however, that there child is not learning disabled, they are just lazy. Somehow my parents found it very easy to believe the problem was my laziness!! What a sad commentary on our modern priorities that people would rather hear their kid has a disability than simply needs a good kick in the ass. And yeah, I usually aced the standardized tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Wow...score! lol One question I would have is whether IQ tends to increase as we get older? It was interesting to me seeing that my IQ at 7 years old measured 118 and then at 132 about eight years later. And also, is the Standford-Binet still in use today? And if so, what is its reputation for accuracy? IQ is regarded as being fairly stable throughout the course of our lives, however, there can be fluxuations based on different factors such as exposure to enriching experiences (i.e, a college education). While fluid intelligence (i.e., memory, processing speed, long-term recall) tends to remain more constant, crystalized intelligence (i.e, vocabulary, general knowledge, verbal concept formation) is more prone to fluctuation. The Stanford Binet is now in its 5th Edition, and is regarded as a very sound instrument, psychometrically. Very good reliability, construct validity, concurrent validity, etc... I prefer not to use it, however, as it is not a very "examinee friendly" test. The standardized instructions are very wordy and confusing, and many of the student I work with have receptive language delays. It's also kind of a pain in the a$$ for the examiner to administer. I prefer the Wechsler and Kaufman tests, as well as, the Differential Abilities Scales (which is actually not considered an intelligence test but measures the same things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 IQ is regarded as being fairly stable throughout the course of our lives, however, there can be fluxuations based on different factors such as exposure to enriching experiences (i.e, a college education). While fluid intelligence (i.e., memory, processing speed, long-term recall) tends to remain more constant, crystalized intelligence (i.e, vocabulary, general knowledge, verbal concept formation) is more prone to fluctuation. The Stanford Binet is now in its 5th Edition, and is regarded as a very sound instrument, psychometrically. Very good reliability, construct validity, concurrent validity, etc... I prefer not to use it, however, as it is not a very "examinee friendly" test. The standardized instructions are very wordy and confusing, and many of the student I work with have receptive language delays. It's also kind of a pain in the a$$ for the examiner to administer. I prefer the Wechsler and Kaufman tests, as well as, the Differential Abilities Scales (which is actually not considered an intelligence test but measures the same things). Very interesting...okay, I have the paper in front of me from when I was 7, and it says it's the "Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children"....and there is something called the "WISC-R", but I can't read what it says about that. It's interesting because this test is from October 1979 in the 2nd grade, and it rated my reading and spelling level to be in the 95th percentile (it says "4.5" after each...don't know if this is the grade level it projected me at or if it has another value) but my "arithmetic" score was only in the 58th percentile. As I got older, math actually became my strength and I scored nearly 700 on my SAT for math. I wonder if my parents targeted that back in the 2nd grade so that I'd get up to speed....the first paragraph of this report says that the test was requested by my parents since I wasn't finishing my assignments at school and my teacher didn't know why LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Somehow my parents found it very easy to believe the problem was my laziness!! What a sad commentary on our modern priorities that people would rather hear their kid has a disability than simply needs a good kick in the ass. And yeah, I usually aced the standardized tests. Tell me about it. It seems that, more often than not, people are looking to find something wrong with their child. So many times I feel like saying to parents, "if you read (or even spent time) with your child instead of propping them up in front of the television 6 hours per day, then they likely wouldn't be reading 3 grade levels below grade level you dumb schitt!!" Also, there is no tolerance for children who are socially awkward or "quirky" these days. Many parents will shop around doctors until they get their Autism Spectrum Diagnosis. I'm not saying that these disabilities don't exist, but I do believe that they are overly diagnosed. There are tremendous financial incentives here in Vermont for a parent to have their child diagnosed with Autism, and a lot of crappy doctors who will make that diagnosis with very little assessment or investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 As a general observation it strikes me that many of the regulars on the board are people that are well educated (except Beerball) and intelligent (except AJ in spite of his assertions to the contrary). There is really no good way to know this with certainty but the humor, comments and insights generally seem to me to indicate smarts. I went to grad school and have worked with some people who were off the charts smart. What is interesting is that not all that I have met in life with smarts have fancy degrees or would be known as brainiacs. Generally, the people without the big degrees are very well read, confident, excel at either a job or vocation and are fun to be around. The people with fancy degrees may be this but some are just the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Very interesting...okay, I have the paper in front of me from when I was 7, and it says it's the "Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children"....and there is something called the "WISC-R", but I can't read what it says about that. It's interesting because this test is from October 1979 in the 2nd grade, and it rated my reading and spelling level to be in the 95th percentile (it says "4.5" after each...don't know if this is the grade level it projected me at or if it has another value) but my "arithmetic" score was only in the 58th percentile. As I got older, math actually became my strength and I scored nearly 700 on my SAT for math. I wonder if my parents targeted that back in the 2nd grade so that I'd get up to speed....the first paragraph of this report says that the test was requested by my parents since I wasn't finishing my assignments at school and my teacher didn't know why LOL The Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Revised (WISC-R) is just the updated edition of the original Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children original edition. It does not measure academic skills. There must be another standardized achievement test listed on there. Wechsler does make an achievement test....the WIAT. Don't know if it was even arounf back then...haha. The evaluating psychologist must have been really pissed because it sounds like your parents requested what turned out to be a crappy referral....waste of time. As a general observation it strikes me that many of the regulars on the board are people that are well educated (except Beerball) and intelligent (except AJ in spite of his assertions to the contrary). There is really no good way to know this with certainty but the humor, comments and insights generally seem to me to indicate smarts. I went to grad school and have worked with some people who were off the charts smart. What is interesting is that not all that I have met in life with smarts have fancy degrees or would be known as brainiacs. Generally, the people without the big degrees are very well read, confident, excel at either a job or vocation and are fun to be around. The people with fancy degrees may be this but some are just the opposite. Indeed. Intelligence does not automatically equate to success. Interestingly, researchers have found a positive correlation between IQ and mental illness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Generally, the people without the big degrees are very well read, confident, excel at either a job or vocation and are fun to be around. The people with fancy degrees may be this but some are just the opposite. Mostly because the people without the fancy degrees have spent more time living in reality. Seriously...it's HARD work getting an advanced degree, and you really have to dedicate yourself to it. It's hard work being a master plumber or master carpenter, too...but you don't immerse yourself in it the same way. Hard work counts for more than high intelligence, anyway. Brains may make the work easier, but they can't replace it. [...] or if it there ever was a scientific basis for not telling someone, Heisenberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) As a general observation it strikes me that many of the regulars on the board are people that are well educated (except Beerball) and intelligent (except AJ in spite of his assertions to the contrary). There is really no good way to know this with certainty but the humor, comments and insights generally seem to me to indicate smarts. I went to grad school and have worked with some people who were off the charts smart. What is interesting is that not all that I have met in life with smarts have fancy degrees or would be known as brainiacs. Generally, the people without the big degrees are very well read, confident, excel at either a job or vocation and are fun to be around. The people with fancy degrees may be this but some are just the opposite. I think you've raised some very interesting concepts. I have come to the conclusion that confidence(or the appearance of) often gives the impression of intelligence, even if there is not much behind the words that are said. I also think that far too much emphasis is placed upon the ability to retain knowledge. I went to school with a guy who was super-smart when it came to his studies. He was A+ across the board and was considered extremely smart. The thing about him though, he couldn't analyze information much at all. Essentially he was hopeless at problem solving. Anything where he had to actually think for himself, he was an absolute moron. To this day I am unsure if he was smart or dumb. Edited October 10, 2013 by Dibs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 The Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children-Revised (WISC-R) is just the updated edition of the original Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children original edition. It does not measure academic skills. There must be another standardized achievement test listed on there. Wechsler does make an achievement test....the WIAT. Don't know if it was even arounf back then...haha. The evaluating psychologist must have been really pissed because it sounds like your parents requested what turned out to be a crappy referral....waste of time. lol, yeah this was quite a while ago...I wish I could read these papers better, but they are so faded...the dude wrote an entire page about my performance, or else it's just some wordy explanation of the testing process. I see what looks like "Lender-Gestalt", "Rotter Incomplete Sentences", and "House-Tree-Person" something test. There's also something that looks like "wide-range achievement test". Apparently the tested the bejeezus out of me...I must have been doing more than just not completing assignments back then for my parents to do all this lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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