For those of you missing Levitre

[Joe W]

Wison is buying a gold plated casket with the money he's saved. He's planning on taking the $900 M profit that he makes on the team with him tp the after-life.

[BADOLBILZ]

Pocket the money. Pocket the money? What if there isn't any money there to pocket? The CAP is the upper limit of what they can spend. It's not how much cash is in the drawer. The Bills have some of the cheapest fans in the NFL and its reflected in the prices they are willing to pay for their tickets.

 

In the past decade the Bills have finished in the financial playoffs in terms of net income versus other NFL teams every season. Some seasons to the tune of $30M in net income. I am not sure what you think happens to that accumulated profit but it isn't just about what you made last year. The money was made and the overhead on the business is perhaps the lowest in the league. Yeah, Bills tickets are cheap......but that hasn't prevented Ralph from stacking the cheese. It is pretty evident that the family has been packing it away to help deal with the inheritance burden that is forthcoming. But the question is how much is enough profit to keep on the sale of the team and is it right to expect that much when you don't hold up the initial bargain. The bargain the AFL made when they came to Buffalo is if the fans show up, the teams agree to compete fairly. The subsequently merged NFL works very hard to hold up this end of the bargain. Ralph has not. If Ralph isn't winning he takes his money and goes home....even though it is his fault he is not winning. That is not bringing competitive football to Buffalo, that is exploiting a fan base.

[brucethomas34]

Living here in Banjo land, I get to listen to sports talk every morning about teams I could care less about in all honesty, but it's better than nothing, so I tune in, really just to see what other sports radio shows sound like, compared to ours. So, short story long, the big topic as of late is how Chris Johnson has been struggling, and not able to break runs on the inside this year, and guess whose name came up in conversation? nope.... guess again... yes, they were talking about Andy Levitre, and they were not raving about the guy in any way. In fact, they feel like they may have overpaid for what is being perceived as middling talent. They were concerned about his run blocking mostly, and other names along the offensive line as well, it wasn't a Levitre bash fest, but I was surprised to hear that he wasn't the second coming of Jesus Christ in guard form. From all the comments around here, you's think we let the "all mighty" walk(on water to tennessee at that), and bashed the front office for doing so.

 

Maybe.... Juuuuuust maybe.... our front office was very smart in not over paying for a guard, even if we didn't have a better alternative to replace him. sometimes you have to let a guy walk, especially one who isn't blowing it up on his new team.

 

 

Take this for what it's worth, just thought it would be nice to show a different side to what was perceived as a mistake in not keeping a guy.

 

They should of signed him after his third year, not forth, the titans over payed. Lets not forget we re signed wood with that money we saved and he's a much more valuable to the bills.

[C.Biscuit97]

Of our 3 losses, which ones were due to poor LG play?

 

All of them. LG is single handedly holding back this team.

 

Face it, Levitre isn't worth what he got paid. Not many guards are. The Titans signed him and drafted a G with a top 10 (rarely happens) and still struggle to run the ball.

 

Again, the problem isn't that the Bills let AL walk. It's that Brown isn't good enough. But LG is still one of the most replaceable positions in football. And you're delusional if you think our record is any different if we had LEvitre.

[Doc]

All of them. LG is single handedly holding back this team.

 

Face it, Levitre isn't worth what he got paid. Not many guards are. The Titans signed him and drafted a G with a top 10 (rarely happens) and still struggle to run the ball.

 

Again, the problem isn't that the Bills let AL walk. It's that Brown isn't good enough. But LG is still one of the most replaceable positions in football. And you're delusional if you think our record is any different if we had LEvitre.

Exactly. Which gets us back to question of whether giving AL $7.8M/year would have been a good investment. The answer is clearly "no."

[C.Biscuit97]

Exactly. Which gets us back to question of whether giving AL $7.8M/year would have been a good investment. The answer is clearly "no."

 

Yup. I'd rather lock up Wood and Glenn long term and plug in the rest of the oline. LT and C are the main positions on the oline. There's a reason why teams don't pick guards high.

[CBD]

Can anyone here recall a game in which Fitz relinquished a lead late in the game?

Last season vs. Tennessee, Bills were up 34-28 going into 4th quarter, Fitz threw an int with 2:57 left in the game to setup the go ahead TD for the Titans, Bills lose 35-34. Edited October 9, 2013 by Carey Bender

[C.Biscuit97]

Last season vs. Tennessee, Bills were up 34-28 going into 4th quarter, Fitz threw an int with 2:57 left in the game to setup the go ahead TD for the Titans, Bills lose 35-28.

 

That INT cost them -6 points? Very costly turnover.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Even as a Fitz fan (I have his jersey!), I am afraid one can find examples where poor play down the stretch led to lost leads.

 

In 2011, Bills were leading the Giants... Fitz throws an INT on an underthrown bomb, Giants march to winning score.

 

In 2012, the Tennessee Game was already mentioned. One could argue that the offense's poor performance against St. Louis left the door open for their comeback as well.

[mannc]

Exactly. Which gets us back to question of whether giving AL $7.8M/year would have been a good investment. The answer is clearly "no."

How is it not a "good investment" if the team well under the salary cap and hurting at left guard? Good investment for whom? For Ralph? As a fan, assuming the team is comfortably under the cap, which they are, why do you care if they "overpay" one of their best offensive linemen? Please list the top tier players in the prime of their careers that organizations like Green Bay, SF, Baltimore, Seattle, or Denver have allowed to walk out the door in free agency. I believe the Bills are one of the few franchises that has a history of doing so, but I could be wrong.

 

Yup. I'd rather lock up Wood and Glenn long term and plug in the rest of the oline. LT and C are the main positions on the oline. There's a reason why teams don't pick guards high.

Why do you think it was an "either or" situation? Are you are just parroting the company line from OBD? And by the way, there were two guards taken in the top 10 this year, and 3 taken in the first 20 picks. Why do you think that is?

Edited October 9, 2013 by mannc

[Big Turk]

Living here in Banjo land, I get to listen to sports talk every morning about teams I could care less about in all honesty, but it's better than nothing, so I tune in, really just to see what other sports radio shows sound like, compared to ours. So, short story long, the big topic as of late is how Chris Johnson has been struggling, and not able to break runs on the inside this year, and guess whose name came up in conversation? nope.... guess again... yes, they were talking about Andy Levitre, and they were not raving about the guy in any way. In fact, they feel like they may have overpaid for what is being perceived as middling talent. They were concerned about his run blocking mostly, and other names along the offensive line as well, it wasn't a Levitre bash fest, but I was surprised to hear that he wasn't the second coming of Jesus Christ in guard form. From all the comments around here, you's think we let the "all mighty" walk(on water to tennessee at that), and bashed the front office for doing so.

 

Maybe.... Juuuuuust maybe.... our front office was very smart in not over paying for a guard, even if we didn't have a better alternative to replace him. sometimes you have to let a guy walk, especially one who isn't blowing it up on his new team.

 

 

Take this for what it's worth, just thought it would be nice to show a different side to what was perceived as a mistake in not keeping a guy.

 

Levitre's strength is pass blocking not run blocking...definitely overpaid for him....he is a damn good pass blocker tho...

[thebandit27]

How is it not a "good investment" if the team well under the salary cap and hurting at left guard? Good investment for whom? For Ralph? As a fan, assuming the team is comfortably under the cap, which they are, why do you care if they "overpay" one of their best offensive linemen? Please list the top tier players in the prime of their careers that organizations like Green Bay, SF, Baltimore, Seattle, or Denver have allowed to walk out the door in free agency. I believe the Bills are one of the few franchises that has a history of doing so, but I could be wrong.

 

 

Why do you think it was an "either or" situation? Are you are just parroting the company line from OBD? And by the way, there were two guards taken in the top 10 this year, and 3 taken in the first 20 picks. Why do you think that is?

 

As I explained in this very thread before:

 

I don't know if this will change your opinion at all; I just like to point out that the team won't have all that cap space forever, and decisions need to be made. They are currently paying Urbik $4M/year, and just extended Eric Wood for $6.5M/year. In another year and a half, they'll need to re-sign Cordy Glenn to LT money ($9M/year minimum). You can't expect to keep every free agent, and if you intend to be a good all-around team, paying $28M/year to 4 players on the OL isn't practical. Good teams don't do that.

 

You won't find a great team paying top 10 money to more than 1 or 2 offensive linemen. According to Spotrac, here's a list of teams paying top dollar to more than 1 (with average annual salary in parenthesis):

 

Jets - Mangold (2) and Ferguson (7)

Broncos - Clady (1) and Vasquez (10)

Panthers - Gross (6) and Kalil (1)

Rams - Long (8) and Wells (4)

Seahawks - Okung (9) and Unger (6)

TB - Nicks (1), Joseph (5), and Zuttah (10)

NO - Evans (3) and Grubbs (7)

 

That's only 7 teams in the 32-team league that are paying more than 1 OL top 10 money. When Wood's contract kicks in next year, he'll be the 4th-highest paid C in the league in terms of average salary, so saving the big money for Glenn, instead of Levitre, was a wise move IMO.

 

As to your question regarding why 3 guards were taken in the first 20 picks: those teams thought those guards would be elite players. So far, none have proven themselves so (admittedly it's very early).

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Living here in Banjo land, I get to listen to sports talk every morning about teams I could care less about in all honesty, but it's better than nothing, so I tune in, really just to see what other sports radio shows sound like, compared to ours. So, short story long, the big topic as of late is how Chris Johnson has been struggling, and not able to break runs on the inside this year, and guess whose name came up in conversation? nope.... guess again... yes, they were talking about Andy Levitre, and they were not raving about the guy in any way. In fact, they feel like they may have overpaid for what is being perceived as middling talent. They were concerned about his run blocking mostly, and other names along the offensive line as well, it wasn't a Levitre bash fest, but I was surprised to hear that he wasn't the second coming of Jesus Christ in guard form. From all the comments around here, you's think we let the "all mighty" walk(on water to tennessee at that), and bashed the front office for doing so.

 

Maybe.... Juuuuuust maybe.... our front office was very smart in not over paying for a guard, even if we didn't have a better alternative to replace him. sometimes you have to let a guy walk, especially one who isn't blowing it up on his new team.

 

 

Take this for what it's worth, just thought it would be nice to show a different side to what was perceived as a mistake in not keeping a guy.

 

Wrong, Johnson has been going down hill for years, Levitre was our best lineman and would fill the obvious whole we have at guard.

[C.Biscuit97]

How is it not a "good investment" if the team well under the salary cap and hurting at left guard? Good investment for whom? For Ralph? As a fan, assuming the team is comfortably under the cap, which they are, why do you care if they "overpay" one of their best offensive linemen? Please list the top tier players in the prime of their careers that organizations like Green Bay, SF, Baltimore, Seattle, or Denver have allowed to walk out the door in free agency. I believe the Bills are one of the few franchises that has a history of doing so, but I could be wrong.

 

 

Why do you think it was an "either or" situation? Are you are just parroting the company line from OBD? And by the way, there were two guards taken in the top 10 this year, and 3 taken in the first 20 picks. Why do you think that is?

 

1) Are you really going by the Arizona Cardinals and Tennessee Titans as model franchises of what you should do? The Cards have been drafting 1st round bust olinemen for years (Leonard Davis, Levi Brown) and average 3.5 ypc. The Titans average 3.7 ypc. The Bills average 4.3. Wow, what a difference those top 10 pick Gs have made!

 

2) This is why fans can't be GMs. You can't just sign everybody if you want to have a consistently good team. You get yourself in salary cap jail. At some point, you have to let players go. The Bills have signed guys like Stevie, Wood, Mario, etc. to big time deals. Pittsburgh for years let players walk and they were always good. Now, age has finally caught up to them.

[mannc]

As I explained in this very thread before:

 

 

 

As to your question regarding why 3 guards were taken in the first 20 picks: those teams thought those guards would be elite players. So far, none have proven themselves so (admittedly it's very early).

You make a good point, but I'm not convinced yet that (1) Glenn merits being paid as one of the top 10 tackles in the league, and (2) even if he does, that the Bills couldn't "afford" Glenn, Wood and Levitre in 2015, when Glenn's new deal would kick in. The 49ers have at least three former high no. 1 picks on their O-line. How are they able to "afford" that? Also, I don't think Glenn's rookie deal would expire for another two years, so the Bills would not have three "top ten highest paid" linemen on the roster until 2015, right?. And of course, Wood's and Levitre's deal might not even be top ten by that time. I just don't believe that the way to build a championship team, especially in a place like buffalo, is to allow your top players to walk in the prime of their careers, even if you have to "overpay" to retain them.

[The Big Cat]

Last season vs. Tennessee, Bills were up 34-28 going into 4th quarter, Fitz threw an int with 2:57 left in the game to setup the go ahead TD for the Titans, Bills lose 35-28.

 

Final score of that game was 34-35. All 5 TD's given up by the defense. Still blaming that one on the quarterback?

[mannc]

1) Are you really going by the Arizona Cardinals and Tennessee Titans as model franchises of what you should do? The Cards have been drafting 1st round bust olinemen for years (Leonard Davis, Levi Brown) and average 3.5 ypc. The Titans average 3.7 ypc. The Bills average 4.3. Wow, what a difference those top 10 pick Gs have made!

 

2) This is why fans can't be GMs. You can't just sign everybody if you want to have a consistently good team. You get yourself in salary cap jail. At some point, you have to let players go. The Bills have signed guys like Stevie, Wood, Mario, etc. to big time deals. Pittsburgh for years let players walk and they were always good. Now, age has finally caught up to them.

Your statement was that guards are not drafted high for good reason. I refuted that by giving three examples in THIS YEAR'S draft. Apparently, that's not good enough for you. And , yes, Pittsburgh has let good players walk, but those have been guys who are on the downside of their careers, or who have other issues, like Wallace. And, as you note, it has hurt them. Also, I could point out that some of the guys the Bills have extended, like Fitz and Kelsay, did not merit it, but that's ancient history, I guess.

[The Big Cat]

Your statement was that guards are not drafted high for good reason. I refuted that by giving three examples in THIS YEAR'S draft. Apparently, that's not good enough for you. And , yes, Pittsburgh has let good players walk, but those have been guys who are on the downside of their careers, or who have other issues, like Wallace. And, as you note, it has hurt them. Also, I could point out that some of the guys the Bills have extended, like Fitz and Kelsay, did not merit it, but that's ancient history, I guess.

 

Okay, but what outcome are you looking for when it comes to having kept Levitre? How would this team be different?

[CBD]

Final score of that game was 34-35. All 5 TD's given up by the defense. Still blaming that one on the quarterback?

The interception that put them in scoring postion at the end of the game i'll put on the QB.

[The Big Cat]

The interception that put them in scoring postion at the end of the game i'll put on the QB.

 

They were in scoring position from their own 48? Wow.

 

If you have to lie to make your point, it's probably not a point worth making.