For those of you missing Levitre

[Bill from NYC]

That is also the case with Levitre. The Bills badly miss him and as the season wears on you have to wonder what the future holds for Urbik and Pears. Urbik isn't the athlete Levitre is, he is looking at a short career. Pears is nearing the end. A little pain with the Levitre contract would have made it a lot easier to transition the replacements for Pears and Urbik. This is how effective units become liabilities.

 

So true.

And IF the Bills are looking for help at both guard spots as well as RT (very debatable given their history), I am not seeing a DJ Fluker type RT out there. Are you? I see at least one guard (Gabe Jackson), but filling these holes will certainly use up a ton of resources, this if they actually do it.

 

They should have locked up Levitre and kept him until they needed the money/cap space to pay a qb 20 million or so. This is how the league works these days.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Bill from NYC

[CSBill]

Living here in Banjo land, I get to listen to sports talk every morning about teams I could care less about in all honesty, but it's better than nothing, so I tune in, really just to see what other sports radio shows sound like, compared to ours. So, short story long, the big topic as of late is how Chris Johnson has been struggling, and not able to break runs on the inside this year, and guess whose name came up in conversation? nope.... guess again... yes, they were talking about Andy Levitre, and they were not raving about the guy in any way. In fact, they feel like they may have overpaid for what is being perceived as middling talent. They were concerned about his run blocking mostly, and other names along the offensive line as well, it wasn't a Levitre bash fest, but I was surprised to hear that he wasn't the second coming of Jesus Christ in guard form. From all the comments around here, you's think we let the "all mighty" walk(on water to tennessee at that), and bashed the front office for doing so.

 

Maybe.... Juuuuuust maybe.... our front office was very smart in not over paying for a guard, even if we didn't have a better alternative to replace him. sometimes you have to let a guy walk, especially one who isn't blowing it up on his new team.

 

 

Take this for what it's worth, just thought it would be nice to show a different side to what was perceived as a mistake in not keeping a guy.

 

yeah, but he's still better than what we have now

[OCinBuffalo]

you're missing the point. the Bills are being faulted for not being proactive in re-signing Levitre to a long-term deal a year before his contract was up. he was the line's MVP in Buffalo and was a tremendous loss to the continuity he had established with Eric Wood and C.J. Spiller.

and the Bills are struggling on the line without him.

 

say what you will about Chris Johnson's struggles in Tennessee. his struggles were apparent long before this season started.

 

the Bills running attack hasn't exactly been consistent this season. and Levitre's absence could be regarded as a cause.

 

in your sheer delight in wanting to pile on Andy, you also miss the fact that the BIlls have allowed 43 sacks -- that's the fourth most in the NFL this season. of course, a rookie quarterback is a reason for that. however, given that the LG spot hasn't exactly been solidified, and the Bills might have to retool this line once again this offseason doesn't exactly help the case you might be failing to make for yet a second time.

 

jw

Hold on. Which FO are we talking about?

 

Presumably, you're saying that before last year we should have signed Levitre, right? Or, earlier, if we are to fulfill the condition of "signing him before his contract was up". I don't recall it being anybody's FO...other than Buddy Nix's.

 

This coach, this GM, and this Pro Personnel guy(especially) weren't in place 2 year ago. I mean if the perscribed solution had to have been "extend him way before this even comes up".

 

Sure Whaley was in the office, but, do you know for a fact that this was Whaley's call? That would be a first, since according to Brandon they make "consensus" decisions. So, if that's true, then Whaley wasn't the only voice in this.

 

If it isn't true, and this is Buddy Nix's call, which via your assertion, it would have had to be....

 

....then what's with this "the Bills" crap? It isn't the same "the Bills". If you want to say that "Brandon was there", ok, but, was it Brandon's call to let Levitre walk? Most of the people who made the decision, that are still around, at best served as support for, or were on the periphery of, this decision.

 

Why do I, a humble purveyor of truth, logic, and wiseassery, have to explain this to someone of John Wawrow's exalted status?

 

 

I believe each GM should be given a clean slate, and be judged only on what happens on their watch. Otherwise, he's not really a GM, he's just somebody else's maintenance crew. Alternative example: Does Butler or Polian...as reason Bills made playoffs after 1994? Just like you can't credit Butler for Polian's choices, you can't fault Whaley for Nix's.

 

EDIT: This is like a new, competent manager taking over a failed manager's project: nobody would even entertain the idea that "the Project" is the same old "the Project". It remains to be seen whether Whaley is different, but, his first draft, trade and UFA period went..um just a little bit better than "well". So far we have evidence of good off-season moves translating to good play on the field. No wins yet, but, demonstrably good moves.

Edited December 17, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[BuffaloBill]

I think it was an error in letting him walk, no matter how badly he's perceived to be playing in Ten. He's better than Colin Brown, no doubt. The Bills are 20 MILLION dollars under the cap. There's no excuse to let ANYONE walk when you have that much coin laying around.

 

Except that you have to look at it in future years as you build a roster. The Bills were wise to not overpay for a guard. Where they went wrong was not having an answer once he was gone.

[BADOLBILZ]

So true.

And IF the Bills are looking for help at both guard spots as well as RT (very debatable given their history), I am not seeing a DJ Fluker type RT out there. Are you? I see at least one guard (Gabe Jackson), but filling these holes will certainly use up a ton of resources, this if they actually do it.

 

They should have locked up Levitre and kept him until they needed the money/cap space to pay a qb 20 million or so. This is how the league works these days.

 

I think some of the people on this board would approve of the Bills trading their first round pick for $10M in cap space........and then not mind when the Bills didn't use that space.

[QCity]

I'll give the Levitre Fan Club this - what they lack in football acumen they make up for in stubbornness. In about 2-3 years this will be regarded as one of the worst contracts drawn-up in the past decade, and there will still be posters here adamant that we should have given him that money. And no, this is not "how the league works these days." (I have to admit, I love reading the posts defending AL's contract and the accompanying mental gymnastics required - did someone just drop John McCargo's name!?? )

 

Except that you have to look at it in future years as you build a roster. The Bills were wise to not overpay for a guard. Where they went wrong was not having an answer once he was gone.

 

100% spot-on.

/thread

[OCinBuffalo]

/thread

No! Not until wawrow responds! Give me wawrow, or give me...another shot of Jameson!

[Prickly Pete]

If he would have restructured, he would be our backup. If he was our backup, he would have led us to a win over Cleveland. I have no doubts about this.

 

Fitz never gave up games. Plenty of times he failed to bring the team back, but lest we forget he had plenty of games where he did lead them from behind, they fell short in a bunch of those, but that's not the point.

 

Can anyone here recall a game in which Fitz relinquished a lead late in the game?

 

Yeah right...you're joking?

 

 

Bills Lose Heartbreaker 35-34

Devastating loss may dash playoff hopes.

by Steve Saslow at Week 7 Titans 35 Bills 34

The Skinny:

Ryan Fitzpatrick threw a late interception and then Matt Hasselbeck hit Nate Washington with a 15 yard touchdown pass on a 4th and 9 play to lift the Titans to a 35-34 come from behind win over the Bills. Fitzpatrick did throw three touchdown passes to Fred Jackson, Donald Jones, and Stevie Johnson. Brad Smith returned a kickoff 89 yards for a score in the loss. Chris Johnson had an 83 yard touchdown run and ran for 195 yards in just 18 carries to lead the Titans to the victory. We are not doing grades this week but check out our quick recap of the loss.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Marauder'sMicro

[OCinBuffalo]

Yeah right...you're joking?

 

 

Bills Lose Heartbreaker 35-34

Devastating loss may dash playoff hopes.

by Steve Saslow at Week 7 Titans 35 Bills 34

The Skinny:

Ryan Fitzpatrick threw a late interception and then Matt Hasselbeck hit Nate Washington with a 15 yard touchdown pass on a 4th and 9 play to lift the Titans to a 35-34 come from behind win over the Bills. Fitzpatrick did throw three touchdown passes to Fred Jackson, Donald Jones, and Stevie Johnson. Brad Smith returned a kickoff 89 yards for a score in the loss. Chris Johnson had an 83 yard touchdown run and ran for 195 yards in just 18 carries to lead the Titans to the victory. We are not doing grades this week but check out our quick recap of the loss.

One of the ways...to skin a cat.

 

This time, it's a big one!

[Bill from NYC]

I'll give the Levitre Fan Club this - what they lack in football acumen they make up for in stubbornness. In about 2-3 years this will be regarded as one of the worst contracts drawn-up in the past decade

Ya think? You must be forgetting Derrick Dockery. How did you like that 48 million dollar contract at the time? He not only couldn't block, he WOULDN'T!!! The man had the cleanest uniform in the NFL after games.

 

Stubborn? Perhaps. But on this end, I am sensing an all out effort to defend any move the Bills bumbling front office makes, however stupid.

 

That said, I appreciate the dialogue.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Bill from NYC

[Rob's House]

Ya think? You must be forgetting Derrick Dockery. How did you like that 48 million dollar contract at the time? He not only couldn't block, he WOULDN'T!!! The man had the cleanest uniform in the NFL after games.

 

Stubborn? Perhaps. But on this end, I am sensing an all out effort to defend any move the Bills bumbling front office makes, however stupid.

 

That said, I appreciate the dialogue.

 

Following up a big mistake by duplicating it isn't using good judgment. Throwing a long term contract like TN did at Levitre would not have been a wise move. I fully agree that the team should have and could have found a better replacement for LG, and I understand the continuity on the Oline argument, but If you're going to drop that kind of coin on a player you should get a lot more return on your investment than Andy Levitre.

[3rdand12]

Except that you have to look at it in future years as you build a roster. The Bills were wise to not overpay for a guard. Where they went wrong was not having an answer once he was gone.

You are hired !

[thewildrabbit]

Hold on. Which FO are we talking about?

 

Presumably, you're saying that before last year we should have signed Levitre, right? Or, earlier, if we are to fulfill the condition of "signing him before his contract was up". I don't recall it being anybody's FO...other than Buddy Nix's.

 

This coach, this GM, and this Pro Personnel guy(especially) weren't in place 2 year ago. I mean if the perscribed solution had to have been "extend him way before this even comes up".

 

Sure Whaley was in the office, but, do you know for a fact that this was Whaley's call? That would be a first, since according to Brandon they make "consensus" decisions. So, if that's true, then Whaley wasn't the only voice in this.

 

If it isn't true, and this is Buddy Nix's call, which via your assertion, it would have had to be....

 

....then what's with this "the Bills" crap? It isn't the same "the Bills". If you want to say that "Brandon was there", ok, but, was it Brandon's call to let Levitre walk? Most of the people who made the decision, that are still around, at best served as support for, or were on the periphery of, this decision.

 

Why do I, a humble purveyor of truth, logic, and wiseassery, have to explain this to someone of John Wawrow's exalted status?

 

 

I believe each GM should be given a clean slate, and be judged only on what happens on their watch. Otherwise, he's not really a GM, he's just somebody else's maintenance crew. Alternative example: Does Butler or Polian...as reason Bills made playoffs after 1994? Just like you can't credit Butler for Polian's choices, you can't fault Whaley for Nix's.

 

EDIT: This is like a new, competent manager taking over a failed manager's project: nobody would even entertain the idea that "the Project" is the same old "the Project". It remains to be seen whether Whaley is different, but, his first draft, trade and UFA period went..um just a little bit better than "well". So far we have evidence of good off-season moves translating to good play on the field. No wins yet, but, demonstrably good moves.

You do know that Buddy Nix was STILL the GM thru the draft, and STILL is employed by the Buffalo Bills in a consultant capacity as a "special assistant!

[dave mcbride]

 

 

If he would have restructured, he would be our backup. If he was our backup, he would have led us to a win over Cleveland. I have no doubts about this.

 

Fitz never gave up games. Plenty of times he failed to bring the team back, but lest we forget he had plenty of games where he did lead them from behind, they fell short in a bunch of those, but that's not the point.

 

Can anyone here recall a game in which Fitz relinquished a lead late in the game?

Fitz blew the game against TN last year - he threw a bad pick when they had a lead.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Who cares and if their name isn't Wilson why should they?

 

The Bills are more than $20M under the salary cap this season.

 

Did you even see how his contract was structured? It's by no means a hard $8M per season.

 

As for the original LAMPer......Mario Williams is among the leading sackers and one of the most impactful LOS players in the NFL and there have been plenty of people here or in the media disappointed in his play. This year and last year may well end up being the best two season production in his career......and yet disappointment by many. Illogical.

 

But that's the nature of being a highly paid free agent. It is usually a given that the team that loses a player in free agency is hurt worse by their departure than the team that acquires them is helped by their gain. That was actually the case with Houston. They poo-pooed Mario's departure and then came unraveled defensively late in the season.

 

That is also the case with Levitre. The Bills badly miss him and as the season wears on you have to wonder what the future holds for Urbik and Pears. Urbik isn't the athlete Levitre is, he is looking at a short career. Pears is nearing the end. A little pain with the Levitre contract would have made it a lot easier to transition the replacements for Pears and Urbik. This is how effective units become liabilities. One minute you have Pat Williams and Sam Adams dominating the middle with Ron Edwards providing quality reserve play......then you let Williams walk.....Adams rapidly declines without PW next to him, Edwards proves ineffective as a starter and you are trading up in the draft to select John McCargo.

Absolutely. Another point missing here is that a player like Levitre would probably have been a better player this year for the Bills than the Titans given continuity issues. I can only think of Peerless Price, who had a great year in 02 and then cashed in with a team that was a terrible fit for him (Atlanta with Vick). People say that the Bills made out by getting a first for him (McGahee, as it turns out), but in retrospect they would have been better off paying Price to produce in the 03 and 04 seasons -- the last playoff window that team had. It's generally wise to keep your good players who are entering their prime. Price was a good player for them.

Edited December 17, 2013 by dave mcbride

[Leelee Phoenix]

Titans fans that I talk to are generally displeased with how highly their team values guards (Levitre and 10th overall pick Warmack). I agree with them.

 

Losing Levitre hurt, I would have kept him at under $8M per. You're Buffalo, you have a rare top player at a position, I think it was a time to pony up. I would have easily kept him over Wood. But, I can definitely see why the team wouldn't. Losing Rinehart for relative peanuts to the Chargers and not replacing him with NFL caliber players is where anger arises.

 

I'll give the Levitre Fan Club this - what they lack in football acumen they make up for in stubbornness. In about 2-3 years this will be regarded as one of the worst contracts drawn-up in the past decade

Sure, in 3 years when he can be cut for minimal dead money loss

 

Shut up, fool.

[atlbillsfan1975]

you're missing the point. the Bills are being faulted for not being proactive in re-signing Levitre to a long-term deal a year before his contract was up. he was the line's MVP in Buffalo and was a tremendous loss to the continuity he had established with Eric Wood and C.J. Spiller.

and the Bills are struggling on the line without him.

 

say what you will about Chris Johnson's struggles in Tennessee. his struggles were apparent long before this season started.

 

the Bills running attack hasn't exactly been consistent this season. and Levitre's absence could be regarded as a cause.

 

in your sheer delight in wanting to pile on Andy, you also miss the fact that the BIlls have allowed 43 sacks -- that's the fourth most in the NFL this season. of course, a rookie quarterback is a reason for that. however, given that the LG spot hasn't exactly been solidified, and the Bills might have to retool this line once again this offseason doesn't exactly help the case you might be failing to make for yet a second time.

 

jw

I think you are missing the point.

I am not sure anyone here is upset with Andy.

The Bills would not pay an above average OG like one of the best. Levitre's best attribute was his ability to stay healthy. Honestly he was good, but not worth what Tenn. paid. No way no how. They will regret that signing.

The Bills need to addres OG this offseason.

The Bills chose to resign Wood over Levitre. I do not blame them. Wood is better at his position then Levitre. Wood has been healthy.

[thewildrabbit]

Following up a big mistake by duplicating it isn't using good judgment. Throwing a long term contract like TN did at Levitre would not have been a wise move. I fully agree that the team should have and could have found a better replacement for LG, and I understand the continuity on the Oline argument, but If you're going to drop that kind of coin on a player you should get a lot more return on your investment than Andy Levitre.

My take is that was all Buddy Nix, and his half-assed philosophy of "guards are a dime a dozen" that allowed Levitre & Rinehart to walk, while then employing the very worst replacements in the league.

 

 

This from Nix a week before the draft,

 

"Our roster in house is better than I think we get credit for especially offensive line. We’re pretty deep there. We’ve got six guards and we think a couple of them can play.”

 

Apparently, they couldn't!

 

http://espn.go.com/b...uard-not-a-need

 

Buddy Nix and his moronic moves are still stinging this team IMO. I'll breath a sigh of relief when Nix is finally history from this org, as I think Whaley will do alright without Nix. Whaley stated after the draft that it was "his'' draft and his job will depend on the players "he" drafted to preform well. Judging by this last draft, and If he learns from the mistake at guard this year. Then builds the line properly with the draft / free agency instead of the waiver wire, then he will be far superior to Nix.

 

 

 

 

BTW there are 3 OT's graded in the top 10 this year, and 4 in the top 15.

Edited December 17, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[K-9]

... Last season PFF (pro football focus) graded Andy Levitre as the best O lineman on the team. This year after 5 games Colin Brown was graded as the very worst player in the entire NFL, and his backup was just as bad.

 

Would that be the same PFF that rated Levitre the 39th best run blocking guard in the league last year as well? Man, our Oline was worse than I thought.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Would that be the same PFF that rated Levitre the 39th best run blocking guard in the league last year as well? Man, our Oline was worse than I thought.

 

GO BILLS!!!

60 percent of the Bills plays last year were passing plays.