PastaJoe Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Why did the Islanders make this trade? It seems that the two players are almost equals, and have equal contract situations..........Yet, they threw in two premium picks?? Vanek is definitely the better player. He's been doing it the whole time with no #1 center, while Moulson has has Tavares. Lets see how Vanek does with someone else being the top forward. And it was reported that if the 2014 pick is in the top 10, the Isles can keep it in return for their 2015 1st round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Exactly! This is where Darcy excels. Think he is bad... On the other end there is Garth Snow. WTF was he thinking? Sabres may get two top 5-10 picks... Fishsticks aren't exactly melting the ice on The Island! Heck, they maybe in the lottery for both number 1 and 2! How sweet would that be? Has that ever happened before in on of the 4 major sports? This reeks of the Kessel trade and how the Bruins came out smelling like a rose... Even if the Leafs are lighting it up finally! Anyway... How's that great Autumn weather in WNY treating you? :nana: It's bright sunshine and 50 today, so not bad. I remember the Colts having the #1 and 2 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 And it was reported that if the 2014 pick is in the top 10, the Isles can keep it in return for their 2015 1st round pick. Really? What kinda deal is that! :-( It's bright sunshine and 50 today, so not bad. I remember the Colts having the #1 and 2 pick. 60 and sunny... I have been getting a lot of freeze warnings for BFLO on my phone. Neighbor just got back from his brother's in Erie, PA and said it was miserable for the whole week. Just busting you! Not much better here either... But @ least a few degrees warmer and more sun... ;-P What year was that for the Colts? Who'd they take... I don't remember it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Yeah, the weather has been horrible the last few weeks. But, awesome throughout September and the first two weeks of October. 1992: Round one Pick # NFL Team Player Position College 1 Indianapolis Colts Steve Emtman Defensive End Washington 2 Indianapolis Colts Quentin Coryatt Linebacker Texas A&M Entman had super bad luck with devastating injuries. I don't think Coryatt turned out to be all that good, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) Yeah, the weather has been horrible the last few weeks. But, awesome throughout September and the first two weeks of October. 1992: Round one Pick # NFL Team Player Position College 1 Indianapolis Colts Steve Emtman Defensive End Washington 2 Indianapolis Colts Quentin Coryatt Linebacker Texas A&M Entman had super bad luck with devastating injuries. I don't think Coryatt turned out to be all that good, either. Wow... They really wiffed on that one! Just looking back, that seemed like one dud of a daft! Edited October 30, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Vanek is definitely the better player. He's been doing it the whole time with no #1 center, while Moulson has has Tavares. Lets see how Vanek does with someone else being the top forward. And it was reported that if the 2014 pick is in the top 10, the Isles can keep it in return for their 2015 1st round pick. On paper it would seem like adding Vanek to the Tavares line would make them better...but it is amazing how often things like that don't pan out. From all I have heard/read, Moulson is not the natural talent that Vanek is. I think some Sabres fans don't realize how good Vanek was/is. Don't know as much about Moulson, though it all sounds good...got off to a rousing start...something tells me he will be in a Leafs jersey in the near future... I would be thrilled with his addition, but adding another guy, similar to Vanek, a little bit older, would seem to not really be in line with what the Sabres mission is right now... it seems like he would be a rental player. From what Burnside said (I think it was Burnside, ESPN) Garth Snow had to move Moulson, because his contract situation (like Vaneks in Buffalo) was starting to become a distraction. Apparently, Moulson wants a big, long-time deal (5 years), and the Islanders weren't prepared to do that...they would, however, be receptive to signing Vanek to a long-term deal. This is all hearsay, of course, but if it true, it gives some insight into the perceived superiority of Vanek to Moulson. All that said, Moulson is a bit scrappier a player...not the natural talent that Vanek is (not as physically imposing in front of the net as TV), but a guy who plays hard (Vanek has been dogged for years for being lazy- I always thought that was BS), and plays with a bit of a chip on his shoulder might be more of a "Buffalo" kind of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 In all fairness to Darcy (believe me, no fan of his) but that is easy to say in hind-sight. Vanek was an up and commer, and they had just bothced the Drury & Briere situation...if they had let Vanek skate, things would have been, perceptually any ways, much worse. In fairness, there isn't a player in the NHL who is worth 4 first round draft choices, though I'd be less likely to make the deal if the team were a perennial President's Trophy contender like Detroit. The fact that it was the Oilers and understanding the likelihood that all 4 of those draft choices were going to be Top 5, makes it even more annoying that we passed. A little foresight back then would have put the Sabres in a much better position than they are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) In fairness, there isn't a player in the NHL who is worth 4 first round draft choices, though I'd be less likely to make the deal if the team were a perennial President's Trophy contender like Detroit. The fact that was the Oilers and understanding the likelihood that all 4 of those draft choices were going to be Top 5, makes the fact that we passed even more annoying. A little foresight back then would have put the Sabres in a much better position than they are today. I completely agree...but if the issue had just been losing Vanek, at that time, the deal would have most likely been done. Not saying it is right, or sound logic. At that time, however, the Sabres were coming off a two highly successful seasons, and most thought they were on the cusp of being an elite team...but management stepped into a PR buzz-saw with the handling of the Drury & Briere situations...keeping Vanek was as much a PR move as a hockey move. You can't really sepearate the three moves... Edited October 30, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I completely agree...but if the issue had just been losing Vanek, at that time, the deal would have most likely been done. Not saying it is right, or sound logic. At that time, however, the Sabres were coming off a two highly successful seasons, and most thought they were on the cusp of being an elite team...but management stepped into a PR buzz-saw with the handling of the Drury & Briere situations...keeping Vanek was as much a PR move as a hockey move. You can't really sepearate the three moves... I completely understand the dynamics of the situation back then but Darcy simply made it worse by "losing" the Vanek deal in addition to the Drury/Briere situations. There aren't many teams who lose their top 2 centers in free agency that are able to stay near the top of the mountain. I'm not sure waiting a bunch of fruitless seasons to run into the PR buzzsaw makes that decision any better in hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 (edited) I completely understand the dynamics of the situation back then but Darcy simply made it worse by "losing" the Vanek deal in addition to the Drury/Briere situations. There aren't many teams who lose their top 2 centers in free agency that are able to stay near the top of the mountain. I'm not sure waiting a bunch of fruitless seasons to run into the PR buzzsaw makes that decision any better in hindsight. They were trying to sell youth, and selling fans on the idea that "even without Drury & Briere" this is still a great team..look, we have Thomas Vanek! Paul Gaustadt! Drew Stafford! Jason Pomminville! The future looked bright...but it just never panned out. People get very emotional about sports, and I think Darcy has been almost as guilty of that as fans tend to be. He falls in love with the guys he picks, and can't even imagine them not panning out. I would argue Vanek came the closest to living up to his advance billing, though there always something a little disappointing about him too. Seemed like whenever he would get on a hot streak, he would, inevitably, miss games for some mysterious "upper" or "lower" body injury, and then lose his momentum. Just a bad couple of seasons we are experiencing. I really wish there was a fresh set of eyes in charge of re-shaping the franchise. Edited October 30, 2013 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I really didn't hear too many (or any) people saying let Vanek go back then...........Everybody was saying "we have" to match the offer, including me.............Who cares about future draft picks when you just won the President's Trophy. I don't think this whole stocking up on draft picks is going to work at all, and it sure doesn't get me excited. If it was the NFL, I'd be like holy crap, we have all these picks. But, in the NFL, the high draft picks contribute immediately. In the NHL, a few elite ones will, but even with somebody as talented as Vanek (who went to college and wasn't 18), he was a healthy scratch in his first playoff run almost every game. So, this whole tanking idea and stocking up on draft picks is going to pay off in 5 years or so?? I'll be lucky to be alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I really didn't hear too many (or any) people saying let Vanek go back then...........Everybody was saying "we have" to match the offer, including me.............Who cares about future draft picks when you just won the President's Trophy. I don't think this whole stocking up on draft picks is going to work at all, and it sure doesn't get me excited. If it was the NFL, I'd be like holy crap, we have all these picks. But, in the NFL, the high draft picks contribute immediately. In the NHL, a few elite ones will, but even with somebody as talented as Vanek (who went to college and wasn't 18), he was a healthy scratch in his first playoff run almost every game. So, this whole tanking idea and stocking up on draft picks is going to pay off in 5 years or so?? I'll be lucky to be alive! I kind of agree. With the NHL draft, even if the Sabres finish with the very worst record in the leauge, that is no guarantee they get the first pick in the draft...and most NHL prospects will take a good 2 years, if you are lucky, to really come into their own at the pro level. We have guys like Grigorenko who is all world in the minors, but can't seem to make the jump to the NHL. Some are already writing him off as a bust...was there a Sabres rookie, in recent memory who had more hoopla surrounding him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I really didn't hear too many (or any) people saying let Vanek go back then...........Everybody was saying "we have" to match the offer, including me.............Who cares about future draft picks when you just won the President's Trophy. I don't think this whole stocking up on draft picks is going to work at all, and it sure doesn't get me excited. If it was the NFL, I'd be like holy crap, we have all these picks. But, in the NFL, the high draft picks contribute immediately. In the NHL, a few elite ones will, but even with somebody as talented as Vanek (who went to college and wasn't 18), he was a healthy scratch in his first playoff run almost every game. So, this whole tanking idea and stocking up on draft picks is going to pay off in 5 years or so?? I'll be lucky to be alive! It'll work with the right front office. Teams like LA, Chicago, St Louis, and Pittsburgh did exactly that, then enhanced their rosters with cheap veteran free agents and the occasional trade. Darcy's late to the ball, as usual. And I'm sure most people didn't jump on the "trade Vanek" bandwagon. Most people are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I kind of agree. With the NHL draft, even if the Sabres finish with the very worst record in the leauge, that is no guarantee they get the first pick in the draft...and most NHL prospects will take a good 2 years, if you are lucky, to really come into their own at the pro level. We have guys like Grigorenko who is all world in the minors, but can't seem to make the jump to the NHL. Some are already writing him off as a bust...was there a Sabres rookie, in recent memory who had more hoopla surrounding him? Looking over all of the post-lockout drafts, I wouldn't mind the 2nd overall pick one bit. Granted, the fall from Crosby to Bobby Ryan is a big one just like the fall from McDavid may wind up being the same, but there is some prime talent available at #2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 At least the Flyers suck too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 At least the Flyers suck too. There's that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Sell the team Pegula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Why did the Islanders make this trade? It seems that the two players are almost equals, and have equal contract situations..........Yet, they threw in two premium picks?? Vanek is the better talent by far, even though the last few seasons the numbers are close. But the timing is great for the Islanders. If Vanek doesn't fit with the team, they can try to deal him at the deadline. I think it's a good move by both teams, 1 trying for immediate impact and the other banking on future returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Sell the team Pegula. Jeeze Louise. Yeah... Move right outta BFLO. That will teach those fans to support their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Vanek is the better talent by far, even though the last few seasons the numbers are close. But the timing is great for the Islanders. If Vanek doesn't fit with the team, they can try to deal him at the deadline. I think it's a good move by both teams, 1 trying for immediate impact and the other banking on future returns. Thanks for the info. Hockey is the weakest of the four sports as far as my knowledge of the players goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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