K-9 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I am wondering if any of the scheme-knowledgeable posters here might be able to give some feedback as to which safety(SS or FS) is more important to Pettine's defense? Jboyst62 maybe? Anyone with more understanding of this than me would do. Depends on the personnel he has available at the positions, but Pettine often uses his safeties interchangeably. He's gonna have his SS play more coverage on TEs and RBs, and will use his FS in run support more often than other DCs. Getting back to the idea of specific personnel, Pettine is gonna want Byrd to play more of a centerfield-type where he can read a QB and roam a bit more. Kinda like what A Williams was doing early on in the season before injuries forced him back to CB for a spell. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 The simple answer to the question is a yes. The better question is, How easily is Byrd replaced? The answer to that is not so easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Byrd is replaceable, but by an inferior player. The question is does the amount of dollars and cap room we save in getting that inferior player to play for us add more value to our team elsewhere on the roster, or does it just allow Ralphy Wilson to die a richer billionaire? I think that we struggle to get better enough elsewhere while losing Byrd, and I'm very happy to overpay him a little in the way that we didn't want to with Levietre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timtebow15 Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Who is Byrd's backup? Searcy? Things are clicking with Byrd but we may be better off using those dollars for a real hole. To me it depends on the draft. We need a TE, LB and 2 OL let alone keeping other key players. At some point you have to have drafted someone capable of stepping up. Pittsburgh seems to be able to do that if someone gets away. I've been impressed with Searcy. I think we need to use resources elsewhere. Just like Stevie Johnson. They are going to have to let him walk when he's due I think and Woods is going to have to be ready by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 We could have another him in a minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 The simple answer to the question is a yes. The better question is, How easily is Byrd replaced? The answer to that is not so easily. Man, I never expected to see this thread getting dragged up again, two months after I first posted it. I think seeing Byrd coming back in form against Pitt and the Jets quashed any thoughts about trying to replace him. Is he really the best safety in the league? No, I still don't think so. Do I think that having Byrd happily locked up in Buffalo long term puts this defense only a piece or two away from being one of the elite groups in the NFL? Yes. Is it worth paying a bit extra to get that? Now, I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 (edited) Well, I searched out this thread, I have something to say. Byrd is a ball hawk, that is he sees the ball and can catch it pretty good, hence his history and current performance. BUT, I watched the Tampa game on DVR today, and I now know for sure how slow Byrd is on the field.....and the reason he is not quite at the top of the safety list. On the play where the TB rb went off left tackle for 80 yards, Byrd was in pursuit. He could not close on the rb...maybe that was not really a surprise, but the guy next to him, also in pursuit, ran Byrd down and passed him running flat out after the back. That was Nigel Bradham. Now, if our right lb is faster than our safety, something is wrong....and its Byrd's speed that is wrong. He may eventually get top dollar, but, he is not Palomulu. I would say the Bills are correct offering good but not super great dollars. Byrd is 2/3 of a stud safety, not the real deal as he cannot possibly get over to cover the sideline from the center of the field as quickly as he needs to all the time. And, if the Bills offer of good money isn't getting it done, let Aaron Williams have the job. (never thought I would say that) A Williams did pretty good at that job until they had to put him back a CB. (and he had 3 picks as well, I recall) Edited December 10, 2013 by bigK14094 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Most INTs in the NFL since he entered the league. If the Bills don't sign him long term or at the very least franchise him and try and trade them, that would be super awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Well, I searched out this thread, I have something to say. Byrd is a ball hawk, that is he sees the ball and can catch it pretty good, hence his history and current performance. BUT, I watched the Tampa game on DVR today, and I now know for sure how slow Byrd is on the field.....and the reason he is not quite at the top of the safety list. On the play where the TB rb went off left tackle for 80 yards, Byrd was in pursuit. He could not close on the rb...maybe that was not really a surprise, but the guy next to him, also in pursuit, ran Byrd down and passed him running flat out after the back. That was Nigel Bradham. Now, if our right lb is faster than our safety, something is wrong....and its Byrd's speed that is wrong. He may eventually get top dollar, but, he is not Palomulu. I would say the Bills are correct offering good but not super great dollars. Byrd is 2/3 of a stud safety, not the real deal as he cannot possibly get over to cover the sideline from the center of the field as quickly as he needs to all the time. And, if the Bills offer of good money isn't getting it done, let Aaron Williams have the job. (never thought I would say that) A Williams did pretty good at that job until they had to put him back a CB. (and he had 3 picks as well, I recall) He was also pretty bad in the Atlanta game on a couple of long runs. Byrd is a ball hawk as you point out. Other then that i believe the rest of his skill are average. he is by no means a Troy P. I doubt highly the Bills bring him back. Byrd will get paid, and good for him. I want Byrd but at a fair price. Maybe the 5-7 best safety area. Byrd believes i THINK he deserves 1-3 best safety value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Well, I searched out this thread, I have something to say. Byrd is a ball hawk, that is he sees the ball and can catch it pretty good, hence his history and current performance. BUT, I watched the Tampa game on DVR today, and I now know for sure how slow Byrd is on the field.....and the reason he is not quite at the top of the safety list. On the play where the TB rb went off left tackle for 80 yards, Byrd was in pursuit. He could not close on the rb...maybe that was not really a surprise, but the guy next to him, also in pursuit, ran Byrd down and passed him running flat out after the back. That was Nigel Bradham. Now, if our right lb is faster than our safety, something is wrong....and its Byrd's speed that is wrong. He may eventually get top dollar, but, he is not Palomulu. I would say the Bills are correct offering good but not super great dollars. Byrd is 2/3 of a stud safety, not the real deal as he cannot possibly get over to cover the sideline from the center of the field as quickly as he needs to all the time. And, if the Bills offer of good money isn't getting it done, let Aaron Williams have the job. (never thought I would say that) A Williams did pretty good at that job until they had to put him back a CB. (and he had 3 picks as well, I recall) He's also not as good as Ronnie Lott. But he again will be the top safety in free agency in 2014, and will command the top free agent contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Hi. I would like to chat some time about the differences of free safety and strong safety. Also, the important of speed in an WLB. I am wondering if any of the scheme-knowledgeable posters here might be able to give some feedback as to which safety(SS or FS) is more important to Pettine's defense? Jboyst62 maybe? Anyone with more understanding of this than me would do. sorry Dibs I missed this.The FS in my opinion is more valuable in Pettines system. The SS is the extra cover guy in the middle meant to keep the box, or area in front of him between the DE's from being broken. If an LB loses containment or over pursues then the SS in Pettines system is to be the player to wedge the opponent if not tackle him. Pettines system is very aggressive with 10 guys getting to the ball. The 11th is to isolate on the top WR - make him an island. The SS needs pursuit angles and awareness to play this well, which seems to be working with Aaron Williams. His angles at CB were poor at best. When the play is in front of him there is improvement. If he can funnel the ball carrier and cut him off he can rely on gang tackles from other defenders to help stop the ball. This is why the 11 players on the field must all play succesfully and a reason Bradham had struggled. He is inconsistent and doesn't have a feel for this system Byrd is left to be isolated against the ball reading the QB and finding the space that the QB wants to go. It becomes a one on one game. QB vs Byrd. If he had top shelf speed it would help but it might not be the difference maker people think. Bird in a cover one system is usually money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoName Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Did anyone else notice how Bradham was way faster than Byrd during the Bucs 1st qtr Touchdown run? Just shows how good his ball instincts must be to be that slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qblax16 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Byrd is really good, there was a big step from Jim Lenorard to him. I've heard countless times that if you had the choice to cut Stevie to keep Byrd, would you do it. Yes. Byrd is a top 5 saftey. Stevie is a top 30 WR. Playing the anaylitics game, you can find another WR to get Stevie numbers, but Byrd numbers are not as easily replaced. Bottom Line: Keep Byrd, pay him as a top 3 saftey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Most INTs in the NFL since he entered the league. If the Bills don't sign him long term or at the very least franchise him and try and trade them, that would be super awful. It's improbable that the Bills will franchise him again at an $8.2 M price. The organization had the opportunity to get a deal done last year, and they didn't. They held the line, and he stood his ground. Now he will be on the market and go where he wants to go. Even if the Bills give him the most lucratice offer that doesn't mean that he will decide to stay with a team that for a generation has been relegated to near the bottom of the heap. You don't think that playing on a team that has a legitimate chance to be in the playoffs isn't appealing to a player who has never played beyond the end of a regular season? You don't think that heading into the tail end of the season and still have meaningful games with playoff implications is appealing to a player whose fanbase turns their focus onto the upcoming draft in the second half of the season? Byrd is well suited to play FS in this new era of NFL mandated player safety rules. The era of being a headhunter is out. A player such as Byrd has more value in this era than a Troy P or Ronnie Lott would because although he is not as much of a tackling cruncher, he is an instinctive player that finds the ball and makes the interception when it is there to be made. It's not unfair to say that he has better hands than any receiver on the team. Losing Byrd and replacing him with a player such as Searcy is as bad as losing Levitre and replacing him with Brown/Legursky. The dropoff is so stark that it sets back a team that already inhabits the back of the bus. What this second-rate franchise doesn't understand or cared about is that winning the battle of the contracts has little to do with success on the field. Byrd took a stand that he was the best free safety in the game. Is he the best? Without a doubt he is one of the top three at his position. The end result is that a team that is not competitive and lacking in talent will lose one of their most talented players and get nothing in return. Oh I forgot to mention that the Bills are $20 M under the cap! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 Now, don't get me wrong. I would love it it Jairus Byrd and the Buffalo Bills came to a long term deal in which both sides are happy and a very talented safety is out there playing his heart out for us. But as the season wears on, and we've heard rumblings that Byrd is unhappy, and he seems to refuse to play with the same injury he had during the best season of his career (and one that his teammate Mario Williams is productively playing through). He seems to not want to be here. So with that in mind, I have to ask: How irreplaceable is Byrd to this defense? Yes, we could use him out there. Our DB corps is one of the most snakebitten in the league and I am counting the days until Gilmore comes back. But how much would they improve by the return of Byrd as compared to Gilmore or...I can't believe that I'm saying this, McKelvin? Aaron Williams has done a surprisingly good job transitioning to safety, and oddly enough, it seems that his time there has made him a better CB as well. Seacry, while certainly leaving something to be desired is a good run stuffer and has made some big plays. And the veteran Jim Leonard has looked pretty damn good. Of course, we may have to lose Williams to CB duty from time to time, and Leonard is reaching the end of his career, but this seems to be something that can be solved with the draft or picking up some depth in FA while our last two safety picks develop. So I want to ask: with a group which has gotten 9 interceptions in four games without Byrd, how badly do we need him back? No he is not. We need him. We don't need another hole on this team. Give him whatever he wants to stay. End of conversation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRT88 Posted December 10, 2013 Share Posted December 10, 2013 I'd cut Stevie and use his money to help resign Byrd. The guy makes more impact plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Hi. I would like to chat some time about the differences of free safety and strong safety. Also, the important of speed in an WLB. sorry Dibs I missed this. The FS in my opinion is more valuable in Pettines system. The SS is the extra cover guy in the middle meant to keep the box, or area in front of him between the DE's from being broken. If an LB loses containment or over pursues then the SS in Pettines system is to be the player to wedge the opponent if not tackle him. Pettines system is very aggressive with 10 guys getting to the ball. The 11th is to isolate on the top WR - make him an island. The SS needs pursuit angles and awareness to play this well, which seems to be working with Aaron Williams. His angles at CB were poor at best. When the play is in front of him there is improvement. If he can funnel the ball carrier and cut him off he can rely on gang tackles from other defenders to help stop the ball. This is why the 11 players on the field must all play succesfully and a reason Bradham had struggled. He is inconsistent and doesn't have a feel for this system Byrd is left to be isolated against the ball reading the QB and finding the space that the QB wants to go. It becomes a one on one game. QB vs Byrd. If he had top shelf speed it would help but it might not be the difference maker people think. Bird in a cover one system is usually money. Awesome......just what I wanted. Thanks greatly. My take from that is......in the system we use, Byrd would be well worth the money to re-sign as replacing such an important cog would be very difficult to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Is a thread started in September relevant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 Is a thread started in September relevant? I guess that would depend on whether the premise of the thread was still relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 11, 2013 Share Posted December 11, 2013 everyone is replaceable with either someone better or someone just as good for less money. as far as Tyrd goes, he is the slowest safety in the league. heck a 40 lb heavier LB named nigel bradham caught and passed byrd chasing down a runner in the TB game. Tyrd does have good hands though. but williams or searcy can basket hang for about $6-7 mil yr less. besides he doesn't want to be here anyways and will NOT sign long term with the bills. good riddance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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