Hackett not giving Manuel "easy throws" a little frustrating

[ko12010]

Just because everyone does it, that doesn't make it right or the best approach. Not to mention, our OC is drawing on his vast experience... in college! And it shows quite frequently. Not to mention, I recall Marrone talking about he had been studying offense for some time going back to the K-Gun to put together a hybrid offense that is best. I so, why not look at Gailey's last year.

 

I'll say this one laxt time, because you're obviously not getting it. I'll even put it in its own paragraph so perhaps you actually ready it...

 

I'm not saying use all of Gailey's offense. I'm saying adapt SOME of the plays/formations/etc. for use in the new offense. Not everything Gailey did was bad. Just like not everything they're doing now is bad. Take the best of the best and incorporate them together.

Dude, you just are way off, so it's hard to even respond. If you think this makes any sense then you don't understand how football/the NFL works. And I've agreed several times now that not everything Gailey did was bad. I'm not trying to be too scathing, but this mindset is childish. That's really the only way to describe it. It's just not how things are done in the NFL. What I'm disagreeing with is not necessarily your premise, but the fact that you think this is actually something that should/could be applied.

[NoSaint]

 

Dude, you just are way off, so it's hard to even respond. If you think this makes any sense then you don't understand how football/the NFL works. And I've agreed several times now that not everything Gailey did was bad. I'm not trying to be too scathing, but this mindset is childish. That's really the only way to describe it. It's just not how things are done in the NFL. What I'm disagreeing with is not necessarily your premise, but the fact that you think this is actually something that should/could be applied.

 

Nfl coaches are learning and growing- studying each other all the time. It's also wise to understand the commonalities and difference between the scheme last year and the one you are teaching - helps you as a teacher get the most of your students. No we weren't ever going to look at chan for OC but I think your getting a little aggressive in your own thoughts on the topic.

 

That said, bunches and other techniques aren't groundbreaking, and likely exist in our playbook even if we haven't seen them yet.

[ko12010]

Nfl coaches are learning and growing- studying each other all the time. It's also wise to understand the commonalities and difference between the scheme last year and the one you are teaching - helps you as a teacher get the most of your students. No we weren't ever going to look at chan for OC but I think your getting a little aggressive in your own thoughts on the topic.

 

That said, bunches and other techniques aren't groundbreaking, and likely exist in our playbook even if we haven't seen them yet.

This is obvious, yet people seem to think Chan invented them. And yeah, I'm tired of the asinine threads and lines of thinking on this message board. Especially three games into the season.

[DefenseWinzChampionshipz]

 

 

I guess my point is that this has been a long week. Every thread is an airing of grievances on the same points. At this point, I am just hoping we pull out a win on sunday for the sake of everyone's sanity.

 

If and ONLY if we win, that will be a huge game brother.

 

I go in to every game with the hope of winning but this Baltimore defense hasn't allowed an offensive TD since week 1. Definitely a big test for EJ.

 

CJ is my boy too but I think Freddy needs to get the start in this game. Power running will be the key to get some yards. Then maybe, just maybe that will light a fire under CJ's culo...

[Bill from NYC]

 

I agree with all of this Bill; if we're looking at it from the perspective of the only goal is to win football games This Year.

But I don't think the Bills are playing for just This Year. I think they recognize that they're not going to challenge for the division, or even a playoff spot this year, so coaching guys up and building a good foundation becomes one of the primary goals, and if you can happen to win while doing it, then great.

I don't like some of the things I've seen either, but there's a learning process going on here, and if teaching is as important to them as winning right now, I can sort of understand that.

 

And I hear you Simon but it begs the question.....does Marrone have a program that he can sell? Does he have a system in place that is proven? Nick Saban does. He wins, and continues to do so. The Crimson Tide will probably not win the title this year (although they might), but Saban has a system that has worked and will work. So did Parcells, Gibbs, etc.

 

I just feel like this football team is rushing to do things that even the coaches don't really know how to do at the NFL level. Brother, vs. the Panthers they ran the hurry-up before the deuce and gave them an extra time out. They stopped the clock at 2:07. This was 100% insane!

 

My fear wrt Marrone was that he was hired because he was a Brandon (who I wish would be fired) crony. I hope that I am wrong Simon, I really do. I hope that Marrone has a clue.

[Not at the table Karlos]

 

What is people's fascination with Gailey. His offense was figured out about a third of the way through the season. Yeah he used screens well, so what. How does every forget how stagnant and terrible our offense was once teams started pressing our WR's and taking away the quick hitters, which were the only ones FItz could do consistently? The offense was absolutely stopped in its tracks once teams got physical with our WR's.

 

Our offense wasn't figured out our quarterback was.

[Dan]

Dude, you just are way off, so it's hard to even respond. If you think this makes any sense then you don't understand how football/the NFL works. And I've agreed several times now that not everything Gailey did was bad. I'm not trying to be too scathing, but this mindset is childish. That's really the only way to describe it. It's just not how things are done in the NFL. What I'm disagreeing with is not necessarily your premise, but the fact that you think this is actually something that should/could be applied.

You're right. I apologize. I'm being totally childish... hell even immature and absurd to think, or hope actually, that a professional individual with $100s of millions of dollar at stake as well as his and others professional career at stake would ever consider something other than his own experiences and personal knowledge to run a team or design a system.

 

Again, forgive me. Gailey sucks! We're way better without his loser plans anymore!!

[Dragonborn10]

That's what frustrates me most about Bills fans lately...of course we're ALL frustrated and sick of losing....but when you bring in a new regime to try and right the ship, they deserve a reasonable amount of time to get the job done. The first year gives them a chance to lay a foundation and serves as a baseline...from there we should see growth and improvement by year two and by year three we should be cooking with gas. Unfortunately guys like Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey (and Greggo...and Mularkey) are successful coordinators who deserved a look as head coaches. But they each proved that they best served doing what they do best - coordinate. The guys who are truly legit head coaches are few and far between, and unfortunately we've missed horribly for a long damn time. But Marrone deserves a reasonable amount of time to prove he's going to be able to successfully make the transition to a legit head coach in the NFL. That's not even factoring in our rookie QB, rookie WRs, etc.

 

It's just asinine to assume that things will be turned around immediately, or that EJ will do EVERYTHING right, or whatever else. And then you have injuries, combined with a lack of depth.

 

Perspective, people. I know some people are always so eager to jump off the bridge and grab as many others as they can on the way down, but try to have a little perspective and give this new group of folks some time to prove they are different.

Dude the 1990's is calling. It is not asinine to make great stides in one off-season any longer. Seattle, Kansas City, and Miami all are or did turn things around immediately. Perspective is not settling for the same **** results from this **** FO and demented absentee owner. It is fine to develop a rookie QB. It is not fine to start Colin Brown at LG and to not sign a veteran DB to help now. If they lose to Baltimore they are 1-3, 0-3 in the AFC, 0-2 in the division, and will have a tie breaker disadvantage with Baltimore. Season over before October 1st. That is why people are so upset. We see Miami getting better. We see winnable games lost. We see bad clock management from the new regime. We see $20 million in cap money not being used. Yet you ask for patience????

[NoSaint]

 

Dude the 1990's is calling. It is not asinine to make great stides in one off-season any longer. Seattle, Kansas City, and Miami all are or did turn things around immediately. Perspective is not settling for the same **** results from this **** FO and demented absentee owner. It is fine to develop a rookie QB. It is not fine to start Colin Brown at LG and to not sign a veteran DB to help now. If they lose to Baltimore they are 1-3, 0-3 in the AFC, 0-2 in the division, and will have a tie breaker disadvantage with Baltimore. Season over before October 1st. That is why people are so upset. We see Miami getting better. We see winnable games lost. We see bad clock management from the new regime. We see $20 million in cap money not being used. Yet you ask for patience????

 

Seattle went 7-9 in Carroll's first season

 

Dolphins likewise 7-9 in philbins

 

 

And the chiefs with a roster full of probowlers and terrible qb and coaching brought in a good coach and decent qb... Who have led them through only 3 games so far.

 

Just perspective on those examples.

[ajzepp]

Dude the 1990's is calling. It is not asinine to make great stides in one off-season any longer. Seattle, Kansas City, and Miami all are or did turn things around immediately. Perspective is not settling for the same **** results from this **** FO and demented absentee owner. It is fine to develop a rookie QB. It is not fine to start Colin Brown at LG and to not sign a veteran DB to help now. If they lose to Baltimore they are 1-3, 0-3 in the AFC, 0-2 in the division, and will have a tie breaker disadvantage with Baltimore. Season over before October 1st. That is why people are so upset. We see Miami getting better. We see winnable games lost. We see bad clock management from the new regime. We see $20 million in cap money not being used. Yet you ask for patience????

 

YOu're right. Let's just run this regime out of town by the bye week and then put a restriction on the new group that they have two games to show results or they're gone, too.

 

This is just so absurd...

 

You have fun, man...back to Off the Wall for me!

 

[BillsWatch]

Dude, you just are way off, so it's hard to even respond. If you think this makes any sense then you don't understand how football/the NFL works. And I've agreed several times now that not everything Gailey did was bad. I'm not trying to be too scathing, but this mindset is childish. That's really the only way to describe it. It's just not how things are done in the NFL. What I'm disagreeing with is not necessarily your premise, but the fact that you think this is actually something that should/could be applied.

 

So if you do not agree with the great and wise ko12010 you don't understand how football/the NFL works.and are childish. Would like to give us your qualifications or is that childish to ask too?

[3rdnlng]

Dude, you just are way off, so it's hard to even respond. If you think this makes any sense then you don't understand how football/the NFL works. And I've agreed several times now that not everything Gailey did was bad. I'm not trying to be too scathing, but this mindset is childish. That's really the only way to describe it. It's just not how things are done in the NFL. What I'm disagreeing with is not necessarily your premise, but the fact that you think this is actually something that should/could be applied.

So, you are of the mindset that the NFL is not a "copycat" league?

[ko12010]

So if you do not agree with the great and wise ko12010 you don't understand how football/the NFL works.and are childish. Would like to give us your qualifications or is that childish to ask too?

If that's what you gleaned from any of my posts in this thread then there is no response I can give that will be satisfactory to you. This entire thread is a great example of how Bills fans on TBD seem to be split between those irrational folk who have one hand on the keyboard and one on the bottle and those who actually take a few seconds to think before going ahead and posting a thought. Not hard to figure out which camp you're in. Don't even try to tell me you read this entire thread before commenting. Pretty clear you read maybe the last page or so before swooping in and posting your snarky response.

 

You're right. I apologize. I'm being totally childish... hell even immature and absurd to think, or hope actually, that a professional individual with $100s of millions of dollar at stake as well as his and others professional career at stake would ever consider something other than his own experiences and personal knowledge to run a team or design a system.

 

Again, forgive me. Gailey sucks! We're way better without his loser plans anymore!!

Your responses only continue to show how off base you are. You like to take what others say, ignore what they agree with you on, and then completely generalize what they may disagree with. Saying that Hackett won't be looking at Gailey's offenses is not the same as saying he and other coaches only draw from their own experiences and never study other coaches. And I believe this is the third time I've explicitly stated this--I don't think Gailey sucked. He did some things well and other things not so well. But please, continue to ignore that I've said that multiple times now.

[thewildrabbit]

And I hear you Simon but it begs the question.....does Marrone have a program that he can sell? Does he have a system in place that is proven? Nick Saban does. He wins, and continues to do so. The Crimson Tide will probably not win the title this year (although they might), but Saban has a system that has worked and will work. So did Parcells, Gibbs, etc.

 

I just feel like this football team is rushing to do things that even the coaches don't really know how to do at the NFL level. Brother, vs. the Panthers they ran the hurry-up before the deuce and gave them an extra time out. They stopped the clock at 2:07. This was 100% insane!

 

My fear wrt Marrone was that he was hired because he was a Brandon (who I wish would be fired) crony. I hope that I am wrong Simon, I really do. I hope that Marrone has a clue.

Bill, Brandon isn't going anywhere as he is the sole reason RW stepped away. Which is a great thing because no NFL HC wants to be micromanaged by phone from another city all day. Russ wants a job after Ralph, so i'll assume he really actually wants to build a winner...just as frugal as possible to make the owner happy.

 

So far this regime hasn't made any "Cornell Green" type mistakes. Although they have made a Geoff Hangartner type mistake with Chad Rinehart. It can't be easy being the GM of this team when someone is always looking over your shoulder asking if such and such a player is an absolute need.

 

Anyway, Marrone has a new staff and I'd imagine game situation things will get better as the season goes on. We know the defense should improve greatly with McKelvin, Byrd, Gilmore get healthy. Anyone at CB besides Rodgers would be an upgrade.

---------------------------------

 

In regards to the OP, read this. http://www.buffaloru...kett/in/4504483

 

"Poor blocking. Especially when Spiller is on the field, the Bills are getting dominated at the point of attack. Teams are gearing up to shut down Spiller, and knowing that the Bills are running out of the read-option, they're blowing up Bills blockers on the line of scrimmage left and right. They're aided in doing so by the fact that Manuel has missed some golden opportunities to make big plays with his legs on these play calls."

 

 

""Pointing solely at the play-calling as the reason for Spiller's lack of success to this point is highly simplistic, and largely stems from in-game observations focused exclusively on play results. Hackett's play-calling is okay; it might behoove him to pull back on his reliance on the read option, particularly with Spiller in the lineup, but he's folding a lot of different sub-options into these calls that have big-play ability when executed correctly. Until Buffalo's young quarterback and skill players are fully assimilated to the offense, we should expect missed opportunities like this, and only stretches of the offense "clicking" as a result.""

 

LG Colin Brown is just killing that O line with some absolutely horrible play the last three games. Will he improve as time goes on? Because if not, I highly doubt anyone behind him is any better. Sam Young allowed two sacks in the short time he was in the game subbing for Urbik, and Legursky has never graded well, and his versatility to play center might be the only reason he is even on the roster. The Bills need to bring in a FA tackle, and move him to LG or try Welch in that position. JMO.

Edited September 29, 2013 by FeartheLosing

[ko12010]

Our offense wasn't figured out our quarterback was.

Ok, I guess that's one way of looking at it, although any opposing coach knew exactly what Fitzpatrick brought to the table long before he donned a Bills uniform. So I don't agree.

 

So, you are of the mindset that the NFL is not a "copycat" league?

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. As the direction of this thread quickly went in, I've been talking specifically about Chan Gailey and Bills fans' sudden love for his offensive 'prowess', although more than likely, those same fans were screaming at the television (and then typing feverishly on TBD) about how inept of an OC he was at times. I've actually mentioned several times now that there are plenty of other coaches for Hackett to look at and study who are/were far better than Chan Gailey.

[3rdnlng]

Ok, I guess that's one way of looking at it, although any opposing coach knew exactly what Fitzpatrick brought to the table long before he donned a Bills uniform. So I don't agree.

 

 

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. As the direction of this thread quickly went in, "I've been talking specifically about Chan Gailey and Bills fans' sudden love for his offensive 'prowess', although more than likely, those same fans were screaming at the television (and then typing feverishly on TBD) about how inept of an OC he was at times. I've actually mentioned several times now that there are plenty of other coaches for Hackett to look at and study who are/were far better than Chan Gailey.

 

I sorta got the impression from you that you didn't think a coach would look at what others are doing and if they liked it, incorporate it into thier system. You must admit that you have been stating "how things are done in the NFL", as an example:

 

"Dude, you just are way off, so it's hard to even respond. If you think this makes any sense then you don't understand how football/the NFL works. And I've agreed several times now that not everything Gailey did was bad. I'm not trying to be too scathing, but this mindset is childish. That's really the only way to describe it. It's just not how things are done in the NFL. What I'm disagreeing with is not necessarily your premise, but the fact that you think this is actually something that should/could be applied."

 

You obviously have been speaking to more than Chan Gailey 's competence. You on the one hand have stated that NFL coaches have their own philosophy and don't/won't adopt other coaches philosophies but on the other hand state that there are plenty of other coaches to emulate. Make up your mind. It's impossible to agree with or debate your polar opposite positions.

Edited September 29, 2013 by 3rdnlng

[GG]

Ok, I guess that's one way of looking at it, although any opposing coach knew exactly what Fitzpatrick brought to the table long before he donned a Bills uniform. So I don't agree.

 

 

I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. As the direction of this thread quickly went in, I've been talking specifically about Chan Gailey and Bills fans' sudden love for his offensive 'prowess', although more than likely, those same fans were screaming at the television (and then typing feverishly on TBD) about how inept of an OC he was at times. I've actually mentioned several times now that there are plenty of other coaches for Hackett to look at and study who are/were far better than Chan Gailey.

 

Difference being that Gailey coached most of the guys on this particular roster and got decent results out of them.

 

You may be Bill Walsh's relative and you know how the NFL works, but I know a bit about turning around troubled organizations. And the first thing you when you get there is see what works and what doesn't, and fix what doesn't work. You don't blow things up and insist on running things the way you ran the last organization.

 

That's why the Bills are on a perpetual three year rebuilding plan.

[ko12010]

Difference being that Gailey coached most of the guys on this particular roster and got decent results out of them.

 

You may be Bill Walsh's relative and you know how the NFL works, but I know a bit about turning around troubled organizations. And the first thing you when you get there is see what works and what doesn't, and fix what doesn't work. You don't blow things up and insist on running things the way you ran the last organization.

 

That's why the Bills are on a perpetual three year rebuilding plan.

So what Gailey did as Bills HC was 'decent' in your opinion? Too bad Brandon didn't contact you for the GM or HC position. Sounds like you have a good idea on how to turn the Bills into a winner again. What's unbelievable is how many people don't understand that Marrone and co. have their own ways of doing things and really don't need Chan Gailey to help them along. We actually had quite a bit of turnover on offense, which is the main concern in this thread. And that fact should illustrate that Hackett and Marrone have their own plan, and they should be allowed more than THREE games to implement what they're trying to do.

[GG]

Shall we review that little tidbit about reading comprehension? Who in this thread said anything about Chan Gailey as a head coach?

 

And yes, next time I need to make an important hire, I will roll the dice on a 33 year old who's never done this job before.

Edited September 29, 2013 by GG

[ko12010]

I sorta got the impression from you that you didn't think a coach would look at what others are doing and if they liked it, incorporate it into thier system. You must admit that you have been stating "how things are done in the NFL", as an example:

 

"Dude, you just are way off, so it's hard to even respond. If you think this makes any sense then you don't understand how football/the NFL works. And I've agreed several times now that not everything Gailey did was bad. I'm not trying to be too scathing, but this mindset is childish. That's really the only way to describe it. It's just not how things are done in the NFL. What I'm disagreeing with is not necessarily your premise, but the fact that you think this is actually something that should/could be applied."

 

You obviously have been speaking to more than Chan Gailey 's competence. You on the one hand have stated that NFL coaches have their own philosophy and don't/won't adopt other coaches philosophies but on the other hand state that there are plenty of other coaches to emulate. Make up your mind. It's impossible to agree with or debate your polar opposite positions.

You need to read the whole thread before commenting, then you wouldn't have to go through all the trouble to make posts like this. All coaches have years and years of experiences and knowledge to draw on that involve other coaches and different philosophies. I never stated that "NFL coaches have their own philosophy and don't/won't adopt other coaches philosophies". All coaches learn from other coaches. The topic of this thread is Chan Gailey. And no, I don't for one second think that Hackett and Marrone will suddenly abandon what they're doing and look to what 'worked' (however briefly) in Chan Gailey's offenses at this point in time, as people in this thread are suggesting. Or, as others are saying, take the best of Chan and combine it with the best of what they're doing. Chan the man started what, 0-8? These threads shouldn't even exist at this point. They've played three games.

 

Shall we review that little tidbit about reading comprehension? Who in this thread said anything about Chan Gailey as a head coach?

 

And yes, next time I need to make an important hire, I will roll the dice on a 33 year old who's never done this job before.

Gailey was the HC/OC, so it's one in the same. Good plan. Well, when you get to Brandon's stature within an NFL organization, you can hire anyone you want. Good luck with that.