Bucs bench Josh Freeman

[JohnC]

Given that Freeman is a quarterback with some talent, it just seems both like bad asset management and a poorly considered hire to go with a guy like Schiano so soon after having drafted Freeman. QBs with first round talent are usually going to be the cornerstone of a rebuilding plan, and following Freeman's drafting with the hire of Schiano suggests a rudderless ship.

 

There is an irony in a Buffalo Bill fan lecturing other organizations on bad asset management and poorly considered hires.

 

I'm not trying to be mean-spirited and I hope you don't take my response in that way. But how many times have we (Bills' fans) said the same thing about the Bills' organization and what the hell are they doing and thinking?

 

You make an excellent point that when you make a bad critical hire it has negative reverberations all down the line. Instead of moving the organization forward you have to go back and address the same issue again, and again, and again.

[RuntheDamnBall]

There is an irony in a Buffalo Bill fan lecturing other organizations on bad asset management and poorly considered hires.

 

I'm not trying to be mean-spirited and I hope you don't take my response in that way. But how many times have we (Bills' fans) said the same thing about the Bills' organization and what the hell are they doing and thinking?

 

You make an excellent point that when you make a bad critical hire it has negative reverberations all down the line. Instead of moving the organization forward you have to go back and address the same issue again, and again, and again.

I understand this. But we've seen it all. The mishandling of defensive schemes and talent alone has set this team back immeasurably. The many transitions mean your depth is suspect, and you have to fill holes that didn't exist before, meaning you can't afford to address longer-standing holes.

 

It's a game of dominoes.

[JohnC]

Sorry, this sounds like a lot of mumbo-jumbo to me.

 

There are coaches whose style doesn't mesh well with certain players. That doesn't seem that out of the question, nor does the idea that Schiano might not have a very long NFL career ahead of him. It seems like he's had it out for Freeman from the get-go and would prefer to develop and control a guy drafted during his regime.

 

The "passion for football" thing is just a big blanket for a bunch of little things like preparation, studying, actual honest-to-goodness smarts and ability to learn and process information, and more. Sure, those things matter, but one might have said Drew Brees didn't have "passion for football" before he started to find consistent success and "get it."

 

I think we expect way too much, way too quickly of most players. I think very few people who play football aren't really passionate about it on some level. It doesn't need to be reduced to a catchphrase or a kind of new agey characterization of footballness that emanates from the inner core.

 

Josh Freeman could easily find the right match in a system with a coach where mutual trust can develop.

 

He could also be a fine backup for the rest of his career. Schiano seems to be losing control of his team and I'll wager that Freeman will be around long after he is gone.

 

When you have your captaincy status taken away it is not an affirmation of your leadership skills.

 

Whether Schiano is a good HC or not is not my central point. (I'm not a fan of his rigid style of leadership.) Sometimes people are placed in very difficult work environments. It is how you react to the challenging environment that is most telling about the character of a person.

 

I understand this. But we've seen it all. The mishandling of defensive schemes and talent alone has set this team back immeasurably. The many transitions mean your depth is suspect, and you have to fill holes that didn't exist before, meaning you can't afford to address longer-standing holes.

 

It's a game of dominoes.

 

You got it. The cycle of futility. I'm hoping that it has changed.

[Nanker]

Amazing Bills fans ALWAYS want other teams left overs

Why would anyone want Freeman?

History.

 

Doug Williams 1978

Steve Young 1984

Trent Dilfer 1994

 

All three were TB first round picks, and each was traded to another team and went on to win a SB (or two).

Josh Freeman 2009 might be a good vet backup for our team.

 

Edit: Vinny Testaverde 1987 almost did it with the JESTS.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Nanker

[Meatloaf Sandwich]

 

History.

 

Doug Williams 1978

Steve Young 1984

Trent Dilfer 1994

 

All three were TB first round picks, and each was traded to another team and went on to win a SB (or two).

Josh Freeman 2009 might be a good vet backup for our team.

 

Edit: Vinny Testaverde 1987 almost did it with the JESTS.

Thing is Josh Freeman wasn't any of those guys.

[Nanker]

Thing is Josh Freeman wasn't any of those guys.

Buzz kill.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I'd trade a late round pick for Freeman.

 

no thanks

 

we better hope that's not us in three yrs

[H2o]

I personally think Freeman has gotten a raw deal in Tampa. I also think Schiano is one of the crappier coaches in the league. Revis also thinks he is a crappy coach, but had to reconsider his comments after remembering his $ is not promised beyond the current week. Ever since the departure of Gruden that franchise has been in the downward spiral for the most part. The team Dungy built got old or moved on and they have never recovered.

[C.Biscuit97]

Surprised tis hasnt happned sooner. Freeman is essentially Mark Sanchez without the media coverage

 

Mark Sanchez: 68 td to 69 ints. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm

 

Josh Freeman: 80 td to 66 int. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeJo00.htm

 

Thing is Josh Freeman wasn't any of those guys.

 

You're right. Steve Young in Tampa: 2 years, 11 tds, 21 ints. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm

 

Doug Williams in Tampa: 5 years, 73 tds, 73 ints.

 

Trent Dilfer: 6 years, 70 tds, 80 ints.

 

So Freeman had a better td to int ratio than every single one of those guys.

 

Look, I'm not saying he's a savior but the way people are dismissing him is hilarious, especially if you could get him for a low round pick. His regression is directly related to the hiring of the Rutgers' coach. A GM should always be looking to improve the team. IMO, Freeman is a major upgrade as a backup QB.

 

no thanks

 

we better hope that's not us in three yrs

 

You're right. He's no Levi Jones, John Skleton, Blaine Gabbert or any of the studs you wanted us to get.

[H2o]

You're right. He's no Levi Jones, John Skleton, Blaine Gabbert or any of the studs you wanted us to get.

 

Don't get him started because he'll pull the Ryan Tannehill card out.

[Meatloaf Sandwich]

 

 

Mark Sanchez: 68 td to 69 ints. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SancMa00.htm

 

Josh Freeman: 80 td to 66 int. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeJo00.htm

 

 

 

You're right. Steve Young in Tampa: 2 years, 11 tds, 21 ints. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Y/YounSt00.htm

 

Doug Williams in Tampa: 5 years, 73 tds, 73 ints.

 

Trent Dilfer: 6 years, 70 tds, 80 ints.

 

So Freeman had a better td to int ratio than every single one of those guys.

 

Look, I'm not saying he's a savior but the way people are dismissing him is hilarious, especially if you could get him for a low round pick. His regression is directly related to the hiring of the Rutgers' coach. A GM should always be looking to improve the team. IMO, Freeman is a major upgrade as a backup QB.

 

 

 

You're right. He's no Levi Jones, John Skleton, Blaine Gabbert or any of the studs you wanted us to get.

You have no idea about football if all you can do is link stats.

[Ramius]

Leaving Schiano out of this, as someone who watches Tampa all the time (when not watching the Bills), i can tell you that Freeman is garbage. He's the typical guy who has shown some flashes and has the physical tools, but lacks the remaining skills to ever develop into an elite QB. Tampa is a cluster-f*** for sure, but Freeman is part of the problem, not the solution.

 

Freeman is NOT a leader. He's far from it. He's whiny and pouty. He's not the type of guy that teammates look up to.

 

Freeman is INACCURATE. He simply doesn't have the accuracy of the top level QBs. 2/4 his 4 seasons as a starter he was completing passes at a 54% clip. That won't cut it. 3 games into this season, he's at an ugly, almost tebow-like 45% completion %.

 

Freeman put up big numbers last year, but was a big problem as to why the Buccs tanked at the end of last year. His poor decision making and inaccurate passes led them to finish 1-5 after a promising 6-4 start. Adding in this season, in Freeman's last 9 games, he's 1-8 as a starter, with 8 TDs compared to 13 INTs. Those are rookie QB numbers, not "potential franchise QB" numbers, especially for a guy in his 5th season. And its not as if the Buccs don;t have a ridiculous OL and a plethora of talent on offense.

 

With a halfway decent QB this year, Tampa could easily be 3-0. Any semblence of decent QB play would have won them the 1st 2 games, and would have put up 17-21 points last week in newengland* instead of 3.

 

Tampa will suck with Freeman, so they've got nothing to lose by going with Glennon. If he's good, they his on a QB. If he sucks, the end result is the same and they take a QB high next year.

[KD in CA]

All I know is, someone better start throwing the ball to Vincent Jackson or my fantasy teams are sunk.

 

Thanks Ramius, for the viewpoint from someone who has actually watched the guy play.

[NDBUFFCUSEFAN]

Leaving Schiano out of this, as someone who watches Tampa all the time (when not watching the Bills), i can tell you that Freeman is garbage. He's the typical guy who has shown some flashes and has the physical tools, but lacks the remaining skills to ever develop into an elite QB. Tampa is a cluster-f*** for sure, but Freeman is part of the problem, not the solution.

 

Freeman is NOT a leader. He's far from it. He's whiny and pouty. He's not the type of guy that teammates look up to.

 

Freeman is INACCURATE. He simply doesn't have the accuracy of the top level QBs. 2/4 his 4 seasons as a starter he was completing passes at a 54% clip. That won't cut it. 3 games into this season, he's at an ugly, almost tebow-like 45% completion %.

 

Freeman put up big numbers last year, but was a big problem as to why the Buccs tanked at the end of last year. His poor decision making and inaccurate passes led them to finish 1-5 after a promising 6-4 start. Adding in this season, in Freeman's last 9 games, he's 1-8 as a starter, with 8 TDs compared to 13 INTs. Those are rookie QB numbers, not "potential franchise QB" numbers, especially for a guy in his 5th season. And its not as if the Buccs don;t have a ridiculous OL and a plethora of talent on offense.

 

With a halfway decent QB this year, Tampa could easily be 3-0. Any semblence of decent QB play would have won them the 1st 2 games, and would have put up 17-21 points last week in newengland* instead of 3.

 

Tampa will suck with Freeman, so they've got nothing to lose by going with Glennon. If he's good, they his on a QB. If he sucks, the end result is the same and they take a QB high next year.

[C.Biscuit97]

Leaving Schiano out of this, as someone who watches Tampa all the time (when not watching the Bills), i can tell you that Freeman is garbage. He's the typical guy who has shown some flashes and has the physical tools, but lacks the remaining skills to ever develop into an elite QB. Tampa is a cluster-f*** for sure, but Freeman is part of the problem, not the solution.

 

Freeman is NOT a leader. He's far from it. He's whiny and pouty. He's not the type of guy that teammates look up to.

 

Freeman is INACCURATE. He simply doesn't have the accuracy of the top level QBs. 2/4 his 4 seasons as a starter he was completing passes at a 54% clip. That won't cut it. 3 games into this season, he's at an ugly, almost tebow-like 45% completion %.

 

Freeman put up big numbers last year, but was a big problem as to why the Buccs tanked at the end of last year. His poor decision making and inaccurate passes led them to finish 1-5 after a promising 6-4 start. Adding in this season, in Freeman's last 9 games, he's 1-8 as a starter, with 8 TDs compared to 13 INTs. Those are rookie QB numbers, not "potential franchise QB" numbers, especially for a guy in his 5th season. And its not as if the Buccs don;t have a ridiculous OL and a plethora of talent on offense.

 

With a halfway decent QB this year, Tampa could easily be 3-0. Any semblence of decent QB play would have won them the 1st 2 games, and would have put up 17-21 points last week in newengland* instead of 3.

 

Tampa will suck with Freeman, so they've got nothing to lose by going with Glennon. If he's good, they his on a QB. If he sucks, the end result is the same and they take a QB high next year.

 

Both of their very good starting guards were out by the halfway point of last year. Doug Martin also struggled after Nicks went out for the season. Those injuries are killers to an offense.

 

Like I originally said, he is well worth a low round draft pick as a backup qb. He's had success in the league & is still only 25. If EJ gets hurt, I'd feel a lot more confident having Freeman than Tuel. TB is a tire fire right now.

[CardinalScotts]

guys smells, funny how many here wanted to trade for him

[dezertbill]

When you look at qbs such as Brady, Peyton and Brees what distinguishes them is not their physical tools (although they have them) but it is their passion for the game that is exhibited by their incredible work ethic in their preparation for the game. That passion for the game is a self-centered drive that can't be induced by outside influences. You either have it or you don't.

 

There is no doubt that Freeman has the physical tools. That has never been an issue. The concern is whether he has the desire to do what is necessary to be great. Physical abilities are easy to measure. Leadership abilities are less tangible and less receptive to being measured. There are a variety of leadership styles and personality traits that can successfully work. But if you don't have the inner drive that comes from one's core then in the long run you will falter.

 

Tampa's HC is challenging Freeman and coaching him hard. Freeman isn't responding to well to that style of coaching. The source of the conflict stems from Freeman's makeup more than it does the coach. Schiano whats a certain type of person leading his team. It's not Freeman.

 

This hit's it squarely on the head! Freeman has all the tools. Probably the reason why he was given as long as he had.

 

It's obvious that Schiano is old school. He's very passionate, and it sounds like he challenged Freeman to have a "Peyton" type work ethic, and he fell on his face. Even the players didn't name him captain this year, which speaks volumes, and also shows it wasn't just Schiano who saw this. All the crap about Schiano "politicing" the players into not voting for Freeman is bull. If players want someone to be captain, they will make them their captain. Even if he did have influence, it shows the players believe in Schiano over Freeman, not a good sign for the QB.

 

You don't need guys like Freeman in your locker room. Saw him in an interview last year and he had the attitude that he is and always will be a starter and didn't show much humility to what he was dealing with on and off the field. He'll be a cancer to EJ, and EJ's attitude is night and day compared to Freemans.

[Orton's Arm]

Leaving Schiano out of this, as someone who watches Tampa all the time (when not watching the Bills), i can tell you that Freeman is garbage. He's the typical guy who has shown some flashes and has the physical tools, but lacks the remaining skills to ever develop into an elite QB. Tampa is a cluster-f*** for sure, but Freeman is part of the problem, not the solution.

 

Freeman is NOT a leader. He's far from it. He's whiny and pouty. He's not the type of guy that teammates look up to.

 

Freeman is INACCURATE. He simply doesn't have the accuracy of the top level QBs. 2/4 his 4 seasons as a starter he was completing passes at a 54% clip. That won't cut it. 3 games into this season, he's at an ugly, almost tebow-like 45% completion %.

 

Freeman put up big numbers last year, but was a big problem as to why the Buccs tanked at the end of last year. His poor decision making and inaccurate passes led them to finish 1-5 after a promising 6-4 start. Adding in this season, in Freeman's last 9 games, he's 1-8 as a starter, with 8 TDs compared to 13 INTs. Those are rookie QB numbers, not "potential franchise QB" numbers, especially for a guy in his 5th season. And its not as if the Buccs don;t have a ridiculous OL and a plethora of talent on offense.

 

With a halfway decent QB this year, Tampa could easily be 3-0. Any semblence of decent QB play would have won them the 1st 2 games, and would have put up 17-21 points last week in newengland* instead of 3.

 

Tampa will suck with Freeman, so they've got nothing to lose by going with Glennon. If he's good, they his on a QB. If he sucks, the end result is the same and they take a QB high next year.

 

Good post.

 

I currently live in the Tampa Bay area; and I sometimes get a chance to listen to sports radio while driving around. The general consensus is that there are extremely serious concerns with Freeman; and that Tampa would be foolish to offer him anywhere near the going rate for starting QBs as a contract extension. The sports radio guys have questioned Freeman's work ethic, leadership, accuracy, mental ability, etc. You seem to be doing the same, and you have the statistics to back up your assertions.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Edwards' Arm

[thebug]

This may not be a popular opinion, but I think Glennon is going to be a good QB.....

[26CornerBlitz]

Schiano will be the 1st NFL HC to be fired this season:

@ProFootballTalk

Schiano says Freeman in suite by mutual decision, Freeman's agent says otherwise http://wp.me/p14QSB-9hTp