Staying the Course Emotionally as Bills Grow Under New System

[dezertbill]

Unlike some of the other comments I've seen on this board, I think it's important to not get too high during big wins or too low after dissappointing losses with this Bills team.

This isn't a Bills team like last year who were supposed to "take the next step". This is a team with a new coach, new QB, and new Offensive and Defensive systems.

 

It's going to take time to build. Whether they are successful or not only time will tell. But certainly three games into the first season with a rookie HC and QB isn't nearly time enough to make that final judgement.

 

The Bills were a game winning drive away from beating the Pats, and I like the fact they went for the kill instead of trying to run out the clock with a bunch of predictable runs up the middle like past regimes have done. Then EJ Manuel drives the team down the field with less than 2 minutes left and no timeouts to pull off a final second touchdown vs Carolina. This after coming back from a fumble and interception that would have crushed the confidence of most rookie...or veteran QBs. I think these are positive things that a young team like the Bills can grow with, and yes...they are young.

 

Against the Jets, EJ Manuel looked like a rookie. He held the ball too long, didn't make good throws and made some bad decisions. But that's what rookies do sometimes. It's a learning process. Our secondary is decimated by injuries and they let up too many big plays that the offense couldn't overcome. Yet they only lost by a touchdown. Not the end of the world by any stretch. Would you rather have been blown out by 38 by a mediocre team like the Giants were.

 

We can all sit here and complain about 13 years of no playoffs, blah...blah...blah. But that's not Doug Whaley, Doug Marrone, or Ej Manual's fault. When you build a team from the Coach and QB up it takes time. Mistakes are going to be made. This isn't Dick Jauron or Chan Gailey after year 3. It's a rookie coach after 3 games. Patience is required. Yes, required.

 

Everyone is dissing Manuel, yet his QBR is better than RGIII, Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Flacco, and Tom Brady. He has thrown for more yards than Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Alex Smith. He also has only 1 INT, compared to Eli Manning (8) and RGIII, Drew Brees, Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub and Kaepernick (all with 4). Mind you, he is a rookie.

 

Then I'm reading craziness about trading CJ Spiller, arguably our best player on the team (and in the league coming into the season), because Cleveland dumped TR in a rebuilding move. Buffalo isn't looking to start from scratch through the draft. They have their offensive foundation. They need to grow as a unit, not tear it down. Granted Spiller has struggled a bit as of late, but fresh off a 103 yard performance where he averaged 6.4 yards per carry and hearing calls of CJ "returning to form" and all of a sudden we need to dump him? Keep in mind he still has more rushing yards than Frank Gore, BenJarvis Ellis, and Lamar Miller...to name a few. And his yards per carry still ranks higher than Gore, Marshawn Lynch, Ray Rice and Ellis. This is after sharing carries with Fred Jackson. Jackson is not the future of this team. Spiller is. That's plain ridiculous.

 

Stats aren't everything, but they are a good indication of production.

 

For everyone who is down and out because of Buffalo's 1-2 record, good thing you weren't running the Bills in 1986-87, when Jim Kelly only won 10 of his first 28 starts for the Bills, or Marv Levy who lost 13 of his first 22 games for Buffalo.

 

Those that think 3 games is enough to crown EJ Manuel a bust, remember that RGIII started 3-6 for Washington (with a veteran head coach in Mike Shanahan that we all would have "killed" for a few years back.) Eli Manning lost 6 of his first 7 starts as a rookie...Joe Montana 5 of his first 7. Steve McNair didn't have a winning record until his 3rd season as a full time starter. I don't think they are looking to label RGIII a bust in Washington just yet, and those other guys turned our pretty good...I think.

 

For those down on Marrone, besides Levy you can point to Bill Walsh's 8-24 record his first two seasons in San Francisco, or Mike Holmgren who didn't post double digit wins until his 3rd season in Green Bay. Both of those teams hadn't seen playoff success in decades, yet stuck with their coaches. Bill Belichick was 5-11 his first year, and that was with a veteran QB Drew Bledsoe at the helm.

 

All extreme cases, and I'm praying I don't have to endure those losing streaks....but I think a little perspective is in order here 3 games into our young season.

 

I'm not jumping ship, and I'm staying level headed until this team grows more. Can't blame the past on them, only the future. I have to give them atleast this year and half of next to see where they are heading before I can begin to doubt Manual or Marrone as leaders. Being a fan for 35 years, I've lived and died in enough December and January wins and losses to know that week to week, anything can happen.

 

With the existance of 0-3 teams who are grossly underperforming such as the Steelers, Redskins, Giants, and Vikings.....I'm excited about the direction the team is going in. I'm excited about the talent they have. I can't wait until we get healthy and experienced. I have faith that Brandon, Whaley, Marrone and staff has this team headed in the right direction. I won't let one game, or one play, sway that!

 

If you don't have the patience, then don't watch.

 

GO BILLS!

Edited September 25, 2013 by dezertbill

[FluffHead]

Who is Manual?

[Meatloaf Sandwich]

13+ years of being patient and you expect me to read that!?!

[Dean Cain]

Let me be the first to say it, Super Bowl 50 Champs! Final score 22-20.

Edited September 25, 2013 by BigCountryBills

[Dragonborn10]

I agree with you in spirit but I think you miss my point. I have no choice but to hope that EJ is the future. I am greatly encouraged by his low interception rate. But should you not also be discouraged by his inaccuracy on deep balls? I would argue a high interception rate can be improved with experience while inaccuracy may never be improved. Next, if he takes three years to be a winning QB, that will be two years after Spiller has signed with another team in FA(he is a FA after 2014) and perhaps two years after his prime. How do you fix the holes at LG, TE x 2, DE, DB, and SS. That assumes you are willing to live with SJ as a #1 WR, an aging KW at DT, and great uncertainty at FS.

 

I was impressed Mike Lombardi had the stones to make the move he did. He was lampooned for days. Next year he has two number 1's and I'm certain Willis can get 3.5 yards per carry this year.

 

In the end however I am just trying to stimulate conversation.

[Matt in KC]

Welcome to the board. Thanks for your thoughts!

[dezertbill]

I agree with you in spirit but I think you miss my point. I have no choice but to hope that EJ is the future. I am greatly encouraged by his low interception rate. But should you not also be discouraged by his inaccuracy on deep balls? I would argue a high interception rate can be improved with experience while inaccuracy may never be improved. Next, if he takes three years to be a winning QB, that will be two years after Spiller has signed with another team in FA(he is a FA after 2014) and perhaps two years after his prime. How do you fix the holes at LG, TE x 2, DE, DB, and SS. That assumes you are willing to live with SJ as a #1 WR, an aging KW at DT, and great uncertainty at FS.

 

I was impressed Mike Lombardi had the stones to make the move he did. He was lampooned for days. Next year he has two number 1's and I'm certain Willis can get 3.5 yards per carry this year.

 

In the end however I am just trying to stimulate conversation.

While I appreciate the effort to stimulate conversation, it's tough to worry about future "what ifs" when it comes to current Bills becoming free agents or aging veterans. Fixing holes are done through draft and free agency...after you have set up your core. (like the Bills did in 88). It takes time is all I'm saying, and it seems everyone is knee-jerk reacting to games and drives as if it defines a player's career after a handful of games? I think that's reaching a bit.

 

All I'm saying is give the team some time and room to grow, without the "sky is falling" mentality that some posters have had with this young team. While dissappointing losses are just that, I realize that this isn't a team at it's peak....nor fully healthy. More growing pains are still to come. I think Manuel has "it". And I'm not alone...and I"m talking people with far more football knowledge than you or I. I also like Marrone, and I'm glad we didn't go after a retread coach.

 

I'm just enjoying the ride, because most of the time with Jauron and Gailey, I couldn't.

 

Welcome to the board. Thanks for your thoughts!

 

Thanks!

[Thirdborn]

Nice post, you obviously did some research. I'm getting off the rollercoaster this year, and gonna just try to observe .... detatched

[billsfan714]

This board is totally bi-polar. You have the eternal optimists(kool-aid drinkers) and the beaten down pessimists(trolls). Personally I think they are both coping mechanisms for dealing with the last 13 years. When the Bills lose the optimists can say, hey there's going to growing pains its going to take time, you cant expect a whole lot. The pessimists will say I knew it, this team sucks.

 

Stats can be twisted any way you want. For instance someone could say, RG3. Luck and Wilson went to the playoffs their rookie year or Big Ben went 14-1 his rookie year. I asked this on another thread and got crickets but I'll try again.

 

If this is a rebuilding year with a new coaching staff(fine I'll accept that) but what is a realistic, fair expectation for Marrone and Co in year 2? Im talking won-loss record not some vague crap about seeing progress.

[Dibs]

This board is totally bi-polar. You have the eternal optimists(kool-aid drinkers) and the beaten down pessimists(trolls). Personally I think they are both coping mechanisms for dealing with the last 13 years. When the Bills lose the optimists can say, hey there's going to growing pains its going to take time, you cant expect a whole lot. The pessimists will say I knew it, this team sucks.

 

Stats can be twisted any way you want. For instance someone could say, RG3. Luck and Wilson went to the playoffs their rookie year or Big Ben went 14-1 his rookie year. I asked this on another thread and got crickets but I'll try again.

 

If this is a rebuilding year with a new coaching staff(fine I'll accept that) but what is a realistic, fair expectation for Marrone and Co in year 2? Im talking won-loss record not some vague crap about seeing progress.

 

No. The optimist says "Hey there's going to be growing pains but we will get better. We are on the path now."

The rationally thinking moderate says "There's bound to be growing pains. We are only 3 weeks in. Lets see what happens." (Like the OP......welcome to the board btw desertbill, good post......and as far as I can tell, most of the longtime respected posters here.).

You were right about the pessimist though.

 

It seems to me that to the pessimist, both optimist and moderate sound the same.

 

I think that at the end of week 2, Bills fans were given more cause to be optimistic......and at the end of week 3, Bills fans were given more cause to be pessimistic. I personally don't mind fans being vocal either way.....it's their poorly thought out strategies, opinions and predictions that I find hard to take.

 

 

You're likely only hearing crickets chirping because we are only week 3 into year 1 and people in general are still unsure of what a reasonable record they should expect this year, let alone in year 2.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Dibs

[TheBrownBear]

This board is totally bi-polar. You have the eternal optimists(kool-aid drinkers) and the beaten down pessimists(trolls). Personally I think they are both coping mechanisms for dealing with the last 13 years. When the Bills lose the optimists can say, hey there's going to growing pains its going to take time, you cant expect a whole lot. The pessimists will say I knew it, this team sucks.

 

Stats can be twisted any way you want. For instance someone could say, RG3. Luck and Wilson went to the playoffs their rookie year or Big Ben went 14-1 his rookie year. I asked this on another thread and got crickets but I'll try again.

 

If this is a rebuilding year with a new coaching staff(fine I'll accept that) but what is a realistic, fair expectation for Marrone and Co in year 2? Im talking won-loss record not some vague crap about seeing progress.

 

Well, i'd say that depends on where we are at the end of this year. If we finish 3-13, I would consider 6-10 or 7-9 to be a fair expectation for year 2. I'd say I want to see SIGNIFICANT progress (+3 wins) and at least a .500 record in the division. I would consider that a successful year for a young rebuilding team in year2.

[canbuffan34]

Well said Dezertbill, I think the average age of posters on this board is somewhere in the mid 20 range, I too am a 30 plus year fan of the Bills and read the comments posted on this board almost daily. I very rarely respond (as indicated by my number of posts in 10 years as a member) but felt compelled to let you know that I agree with your comments and to say welcome to the board just as EndZoneCrew and Beerball and others welcomed me all those years ago

[dezertbill]

Well said Dezertbill, I think the average age of posters on this board is somewhere in the mid 20 range, I too am a 30 plus year fan of the Bills and read the comments posted on this board almost daily. I very rarely respond (as indicated by my number of posts in 10 years as a member) but felt compelled to let you know that I agree with your comments and to say welcome to the board just as EndZoneCrew and Beerball and others welcomed me all those years ago

 

Thanks bud!

[dezertbill]

This board is totally bi-polar. You have the eternal optimists(kool-aid drinkers) and the beaten down pessimists(trolls). Personally I think they are both coping mechanisms for dealing with the last 13 years. When the Bills lose the optimists can say, hey there's going to growing pains its going to take time, you cant expect a whole lot. The pessimists will say I knew it, this team sucks.

 

Stats can be twisted any way you want. For instance someone could say, RG3. Luck and Wilson went to the playoffs their rookie year or Big Ben went 14-1 his rookie year. I asked this on another thread and got crickets but I'll try again.

 

If this is a rebuilding year with a new coaching staff(fine I'll accept that) but what is a realistic, fair expectation for Marrone and Co in year 2? Im talking won-loss record not some vague crap about seeing progress.

 

Are we really going to have a discussion 3 games into the season as to how bad this team has to be in order for us to bail on our current coach and players a year or year and a half down the road? I want to see the team continue to grow and get healthy. Concern grows when games stop becoming entertaining and blowouts occur week after week and we start to digress. But why go there? We've done some good things so far this year and I expect us to continue to grow on that...as does the Bills mgmt, coaches and players. We are finally grooming playmakers in each side of the ball! I'm enjoying the ride. Just think....we might be onto something. Just....maybe....

 

GO BILLS!

[Thurmal34]

There's no room for that type of well reasoned logic on this board! Someone ban this troll immediately!

[Max997]

Who has the time to post all that and do you really expect anyone to read it all ?

 

I have yet to see anything that resembles a system on offense

[TakeYouToTasker]

Unlike some of the other comments I've seen on this board, I think it's important to not get too high during big wins or too low after dissappointing losses with this Bills team.

This isn't a Bills team like last year who were supposed to "take the next step". This is a team with a new coach, new QB, and new Offensive and Defensive systems.

 

It's going to take time to build. Whether they are successful or not only time will tell. But certainly three games into the first season with a rookie HC and QB isn't nearly time enough to make that final judgement.

 

The Bills were a game winning drive away from beating the Pats, and I like the fact they went for the kill instead of trying to run out the clock with a bunch of predictable runs up the middle like past regimes have done. Then EJ Manuel drives the team down the field with less than 2 minutes left and no timeouts to pull off a final second touchdown vs Carolina. This after coming back from a fumble and interception that would have crushed the confidence of most rookie...or veteran QBs. I think these are positive things that a young team like the Bills can grow with, and yes...they are young.

 

Against the Jets, EJ Manuel looked like a rookie. He held the ball too long, didn't make good throws and made some bad decisions. But that's what rookies do sometimes. It's a learning process. Our secondary is decimated by injuries and they let up too many big plays that the offense couldn't overcome. Yet they only lost by a touchdown. Not the end of the world by any stretch. Would you rather have been blown out by 38 by a mediocre team like the Giants were.

 

We can all sit here and complain about 13 years of no playoffs, blah...blah...blah. But that's not Doug Whaley, Doug Marrone, or Ej Manual's fault. When you build a team from the Coach and QB up it takes time. Mistakes are going to be made. This isn't Dick Jauron or Chan Gailey after year 3. It's a rookie coach after 3 games. Patience is required. Yes, required.

 

Everyone is dissing Manuel, yet his QBR is better than RGIII, Roethlisberger, Kaepernick, Flacco, and Tom Brady. He has thrown for more yards than Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Alex Smith. He also has only 1 INT, compared to Eli Manning (8) and RGIII, Drew Brees, Roethlisberger, Matt Schaub and Kaepernick (all with 4). Mind you, he is a rookie.

 

Then I'm reading craziness about trading CJ Spiller, arguably our best player on the team (and in the league coming into the season), because Cleveland dumped TR in a rebuilding move. Buffalo isn't looking to start from scratch through the draft. They have their offensive foundation. They need to grow as a unit, not tear it down. Granted Spiller has struggled a bit as of late, but fresh off a 103 yard performance where he averaged 6.4 yards per carry and hearing calls of CJ "returning to form" and all of a sudden we need to dump him? Keep in mind he still has more rushing yards than Frank Gore, BenJarvis Ellis, and Lamar Miller...to name a few. And his yards per carry still ranks higher than Gore, Marshawn Lynch, Ray Rice and Ellis. This is after sharing carries with Fred Jackson. Jackson is not the future of this team. Spiller is. That's plain ridiculous.

 

Stats aren't everything, but they are a good indication of production.

 

For everyone who is down and out because of Buffalo's 1-2 record, good thing you weren't running the Bills in 1986-87, when Jim Kelly only won 10 of his first 28 starts for the Bills, or Marv Levy who lost 13 of his first 22 games for Buffalo.

 

Those that think 3 games is enough to crown EJ Manuel a bust, remember that RGIII started 3-6 for Washington (with a veteran head coach in Mike Shanahan that we all would have "killed" for a few years back.) Eli Manning lost 6 of his first 7 starts as a rookie...Joe Montana 5 of his first 7. Steve McNair didn't have a winning record until his 3rd season as a full time starter. I don't think they are looking to label RGIII a bust in Washington just yet, and those other guys turned our pretty good...I think.

 

For those down on Marrone, besides Levy you can point to Bill Walsh's 8-24 record his first two seasons in San Francisco, or Mike Holmgren who didn't post double digit wins until his 3rd season in Green Bay. Both of those teams hadn't seen playoff success in decades, yet stuck with their coaches. Bill Belichick was 5-11 his first year, and that was with a veteran QB Drew Bledsoe at the helm.

 

All extreme cases, and I'm praying I don't have to endure those losing streaks....but I think a little perspective is in order here 3 games into our young season.

 

I'm not jumping ship, and I'm staying level headed until this team grows more. Can't blame the past on them, only the future. I have to give them atleast this year and half of next to see where they are heading before I can begin to doubt Manual or Marrone as leaders. Being a fan for 35 years, I've lived and died in enough December and January wins and losses to know that week to week, anything can happen.

 

With the existance of 0-3 teams who are grossly underperforming such as the Steelers, Redskins, Giants, and Vikings.....I'm excited about the direction the team is going in. I'm excited about the talent they have. I can't wait until we get healthy and experienced. I have faith that Brandon, Whaley, Marrone and staff has this team headed in the right direction. I won't let one game, or one play, sway that!

 

If you don't have the patience, then don't watch.

 

GO BILLS!

Do you have the other half of my locket?

 

Welcome to the board.

[dezertbill]

Do you have the other half of my locket?

 

Welcome to the board.

 

lol

 

thanks bud

[jaybee]

13+ years of being patient and you expect me to read that!?!

Seriously you should read it sammich. He makes some good points. He did forget to mention Troy Aikmans early struggles but I'll give him a pass there. LOL !

 

To the OP...thanks for your thoughts. Good stuff.

[3rdand12]

lol

 

thanks bud

you realize you are still in a probationary period dont you ?

If you continue to have reasonable opinions we here will take sides and potential exists for castle storming . Especially with your valid points and then some less so.

You seem a good fit.

I vote yes .

Carry on brother