Andy Levitre

[thebandit27]

Losing a good free agent usually hurts the team that lost them more than the team that acquires them. It often takes a while to get impact from a new veteran acquisition. Case in point, Mario Williams. He started off slow last year and had a good second half of the season but what he brought to the Bills was far less impactful than what he took away from Houston. By the end of the season Houston was dying for the impact that Williams was producing. Barwin and Reed looked good replacing the injured Mario part way thru the 2011 season, but with Mario out of the picture for an entire season they got exposed. Houston was the team to beat until their defense lost it's teeth late in the year.

 

And they had a good deal invested in replacements for Mario including Whitney Mercilus. That differs from the Bills plugging in a jouneyman who had been on IR last year to replace Levitre. Still, it didn't help Houston much last year. They had a window last year and they missed it, perhaps simply due to bad timing with a free agent.

 

Losing Levitre has had a big impact on CJ Spiller's game.....it has basically returned Fred Jackson to the primary offensive weapon role when Spiller was supposed to be some great superstar difference maker........and Colin Brown has been pretty awful and was horrendous in the loss to the Jets.

 

Yeah, they miss Levitre. A lot.

 

Would they be 4-0 with Levitre here? I think they probably would. A little more space for Spiller and a little more time for EJ would go a long way. They have had 3 home games, and the pass rush has been outstanding in all 3 and that has put the team in position to win all three despite an otherwise tattered secondary and scuffling offense. In the one road game they have played, the pass rush was a step late and that was the difference in the tenor of that entire game versus the three home games....... but the Jets did everything they could otherwise do to lose that game and the Bills offense was just anemic because of poor OL and subsequently poor QB play. You can mock the loss of Levitre all you want but I would gladly trade those two more wins for $8M in cap space, even if all the Bills had was $8M in cap space instead of $20M.

 

It doesn't come down to whether it is a good idea to overpay a guard or draft one in round one....it comes down to having a good, highly invested player and keeping him as long as you can afford it and especially...ABSOLUTELY.... if you have no backup plan. The Bills could afford it and they had no backup plan whatsoever. I mean, I am very skeptical about the draft value of DB's.......and this season is bolstering my point considerably.....but that doesn't mean I thought they shouldn't have re-signed Leodis McKelvin. You gotta' make the best of the hand you are dealt 100% of the time. That is the least you can do.

 

I have to respectfully disagree here. Levitre's better than Brown by a country mile; that doesn't equate to two more wins to me.

 

Unless Levitre was going to jar the ball from Danny Amendola's hands or replace Justin Rodgers vs. the Jets, I'm thinking we're the same 2-2 with him as we are without him.

[thewildrabbit]

No offense but this is such faulty logic.

 

1) The Titans are going to see growing pains with a 3rd year QB, yet the Bills won't with a rookie?

 

2) The Bills average more points than the Titans.

 

3) If you take away Chris Johnson's longest run, he is 3.4 ypc. That's silly logic. Also, CJ is one of the most explosive backs in the game. Why isn't he getting to the 2nd level better? Could that possibly be the fault of the oline.

 

It's funny how some criticize the Bills, yet make excuses for other teams. i've said all along I wanted AL if the price was right. But you're kidding yourself if he is the reason the Titans are 2-1. Guards are very replaceable. The problem is the Bills didn't find the right guy. But spending that much money on a guard is foolish.

1) where did I state the Bills wouldn't have growing pains?

 

2) not anymore, Bills PF 88, PA 93 / Titans PF 98, PA 69

 

3) CJ's YPC avg didn't drop to 1/2 of what it was last season

 

Re-read what i said in my last sentence,

 

Andy Levite is missed on that line no question about it. But I highly doubt his absence is the sole reason as to why the Bills have having so much trouble running CJ Spiller this season.

Where was I criticizing the Bills, and making excuses for the Titans? Where did I say Levitre is the reason the Titans are 2-1?

 

 

If guards are so replaceable, then why did the Bills end up with one of the worst guards in the NFL Colin Brown (-26.0 grade on the year heading in) Also, the depth behind Brown isn't any better.

 

 

Do I think the Buffalo Bills should have kept Andy Levitre, you bet! Would they be a better team right now as a result of keeping him, you bet! The Bills have a rookie QB, and my biggest concern is protecting that QB so he can develop properly.

[Alaska Darin]

I'm far from insulting him. I think the Bills would be better with him. But not for that money. And it's hilarious that people want to rip the team for letting him go after a loss. I just find it funny that the same folks don't bump the thread after the Bills ran for 200 yards against the champs.

 

The Bills had an outliner game in which they gave up 8 sacks against the Jets. Additionally, they rushed for 120 yards, 4.8 ypc, against the same Jets team the Titans struggled against. My whole point is be consistent. IMO, Andy Levitre's loss is not worth the money he is now getting paid.

Take away the 59 yard run by Fred Jackson that should have been at best a no-gainer, and you have 24 carries for 61 yards. The JETS D-Line dominated the BILLS OLine in the running game. Smashed it like a pancake.

 

I don't disagree that Levitre's contract is way outta whack for his position. That much is clear.

[Beerball]

With all due respect, this entire thread was made to rub it in Bills' fans faces. And I'm not rubbing it anyone's face. Just because consistent. The Bills are running the ball better than the Titans.

With all due respect, based on the thread this weekend I would think that you understand that this is the type of behavior we are trying to avoid. Yet, you resurrect a thread for one reason only. How about leaving it in the past and moving on?

[Gugny]

With all due respect, based on the thread this weekend I would think that you understand that this is the type of behavior we are trying to avoid. Yet, you resurrect a thread for one reason only. How about leaving it in the past and moving on?

In all seriousness ... is this about the delivery? Or is it really the content of the discussion that's been resurrected? I ask because I think the conversation regarding our RG play vs. the play of Levitre this season in TEN is a relevant one. Especially with CJ doing so poorly. I'm only looking for clarity; not trying to ruffle feathers. I think it's a fair question.

[tennesseeboy]

Are people actually arguing that we aren't being hurt by our interior O'Line play? Levitre would have been, and was an excellent guard and we don't have an excellent or even an adequate replacement. This has to be a top consideration in the draft this year, and in fact I'd consider a trade (Byrd?) for a good solid guard.

[YoloinOhio]

Shoot we paid $5M a year for Derrick freaking Dockery. And he was average. We couldn't have ponied up an extra mil a year for Andy?

 

There is no question we made a mistake letting Levitre walk, I've been saying it since training camp. Colin gets an A for effort and admittedly he has gone against 3 studs in three games so far, but if you don't think we miss Andy badly out there I invite you to rewatch the games and see how fast EJ's pocket collapses from the inside left.

 

Its a joke. Manuel and CJ should be pissed at overdorf and whaley for their New Englandesque front office arrogance. I believe it cost us the patriots game and possibly the Jets as well.

Dockery was a different FO. I don't think that would have happened under Russ & Whaley.

[Coach Tuesday]

Are people actually arguing that we aren't being hurt by our interior O'Line play? Levitre would have been, and was an excellent guard and we don't have an excellent or even an adequate replacement. This has to be a top consideration in the draft this year, and in fact I'd consider a trade (Byrd?) for a good solid guard.

 

Yes, people are actually arguing that. They'll come back every time the Bills win and the Titans lose, because they think it somehow proves their point.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Coach Tuesday

[JM57]

My take is this:

Looking big picture, they decided that they only had the money for a big money long term deal for Wood OR Levitre. Because its easier to find a guard than a center, the choice was made right there.

 

As far as the Dockery discussion goes, they didn't really have many big money players back then did they? Now they have Stevie, Wood, Byrd, both Williams, raises coming (relatively--remember big picture) soon to Spiller, Gilmore, Bradham, etc.

 

Signing too many players at too long a term is what gets you in cap hell.

Edited September 30, 2013 by JM57

[Beerball]

 

In all seriousness ... is this about the delivery? Or is it really the content of the discussion that's been resurrected? I ask because I think the conversation regarding our RG play vs. the play of Levitre this season in TEN is a relevant one. Especially with CJ doing so poorly. I'm only looking for clarity; not trying to ruffle feathers. I think it's a fair question.

Delivery, not content.

[dave mcbride]

 

 

Losing a good free agent usually hurts the team that lost them more than it helps the team that acquires them. It often takes a while to get impact from a new veteran acquisition. Case in point, Mario Williams. He started off slow last year and had a good second half of the season but what he brought to the Bills was far less impactful than what he took away from Houston. By the end of the season Houston was dying for the impact that Williams was producing. Barwin and Reed looked good replacing the injured Mario part way thru the 2011 season, but with Mario out of the picture for an entire season they got exposed. Houston was the team to beat until their defense lost it's teeth late in the year.

 

And they had a good deal invested in replacements for Mario including Whitney Mercilus. That differs from the Bills plugging in a jouneyman who had been on IR last year to replace Levitre. Still, it didn't help Houston much last year. They had a window last year and they missed it, perhaps simply due to bad timing with a free agent.

 

Losing Levitre has had a big impact on CJ Spiller's game.....it has basically returned Fred Jackson to the primary offensive weapon role when Spiller was supposed to be some great superstar difference maker........and Colin Brown has been pretty awful and was horrendous in the loss to the Jets.

 

Yeah, they miss Levitre. A lot.

 

Would they be 4-0 with Levitre here? I think they probably would. A little more space for Spiller and a little more time for EJ would go a long way. They have had 3 home games, and the pass rush has been outstanding in all 3 and that has put the team in position to win all three despite an otherwise tattered secondary and scuffling offense. In the one road game they have played, the pass rush was a step late and that was the difference in the tenor of that entire game versus the three home games....... but the Jets did everything they could otherwise do to lose that game and the Bills offense was just anemic because of poor OL and subsequently poor QB play. You can mock the loss of Levitre all you want but I would gladly trade those two more wins for $8M in cap space, even if all the Bills had was $8M in cap space instead of $20M.

 

It doesn't come down to whether it is a good idea to overpay a guard or draft one in round one....it comes down to having a good, highly invested player and keeping him as long as you can afford it and especially...ABSOLUTELY.... if you have no backup plan. The Bills could afford it and they had no backup plan whatsoever. I mean, I am very skeptical about the draft value of DB's.......and this season is bolstering my point considerably.....but that doesn't mean I thought they shouldn't have re-signed Leodis McKelvin. You gotta' make the best of the hand you are dealt 100% of the time. That is the least you can do.

Awesome post. WAR is obviously hard to calculate in the NFL, but if we had it, fan analysis could conceivably be brought up up to the level of baseball analysis, which is generally higher than football because the numbers are better (for analysis, that is). Also, people have less time for anecdotal arguments.

Edited October 1, 2013 by dave mcbride