YoloinOhio Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 must be an awful feeling, to have an owner that wants to win. Eaxactly... while Irsay cam come off as a bit crazy at times, he wants to win and win now. The fan base certainly can't complain about that. When there was uncertainty about Manning's health and the team had just gone 2-14, he got rid of everyone, a HOF Exec, HOF QB, Freeney, etc, etc, and started over, albeit with the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning (maybe). They were going to take an RB in the 1st round anyway... but who knows where they would draft and who they would get. They already know what they have in Trent and his contract is dirt cheap. A bird in the hand...
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 A Cleveland perspective: http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf/2013/09/post_14.html#incart_big-photo#incart_maj-story-2 . The trade makes sense for them in the context of everything else. They will be loaded for next year's draft, which is supposed to be absolutely loaded itself.
YoloinOhio Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 A Cleveland perspective: http://www.cleveland...art_maj-story-2 . The trade makes sense for them in the context of everything else. They will be loaded for next year's draft, which is supposed to be absolutely loaded itself. The trade should benefit both teams. It is just a tough pill to swallow for Browns fans in the short term. They have gone through so many QBs, they are conditioned to think that the next one won't work out no matter who they take. it is a doomsday scenario for them, because they are dependent on this new regime (it seems they change FOs every couple years there) to make the right decisions on draft day when it seems they have had to keep starting ver year after year. It will be a PR mess in that city until the draft is not only over, but they see what the rookie class can contribute. The Browns traded a bunch of picks in last year's draft too and it was clear they were stocking up for 2014. It is even worse when the Bengals down I-71 are gunning for an SB. They are usually both bad teams, now it is just the Browns.
mannc Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 EDIT: Not to mention this could all blow up in the Browns faces. What if Manziel or Bridgwater don't come out? What if there isn't a clear cut franchise QB? They will. But if they don't, lots of others will, like Mariota, Boyd, Hundley, McCarron, Murray. It will be a far, far, better class than this year's. I think there is a much better chance this blows up in Indy's face: Richardson continues to be the injury-plagued, underperforming back he has been so far in his career, Indy has a worse year than expected and misses out on a great draft.
1B4IDie Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) How do you figure he is one of the best young backs in the league? He averaged 3.6 YPC last year and is averaging only 3.4 this year. The current Browns regime, which has the opportunity to see him up close every day, obviously is not nearly as high on him as you are. And we are talking about a Running Back here. His loss will make little difference in how Cleveland fares this year. 1.) I actually watch the games. Not look at a YPC numbers. (My Wife's family are Brown's fans for some reason.) 2.) Really? So starting Chris Rainey is the same as starting Trent Richardson? Having a RB get 0.1 YPC is the same as running the ball 3 times and getting a first down? That won't effect wins? 3.) Lets see what happens to Trent's YPC number in Indi? Want to take a bet it increases? I'll take any bets. "He averaged 3.6 YPC with broken ribs in teh factory of sadness therefore he sucks." Just Genius reasoning there. We're talking about a dude name Chud and Norv "The worst winning record in NFL history for a HC" Turner. He brought the San Diego Chargers offense to a grinding halt. Yes they are actually (just barely) employed by a NFL team, but I'm willing to go with my opinion over Norv "Why isn't every QB like Troy Aikman and every RB like Emmit Smith?" Tuner. Edited September 19, 2013 by Why So Serious?
mannc Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) 1.) I actually watch the games. Not look at a YPC numbers. (My Wife's family are Brown's fans for some reason.) 2.) Really? So starting Chris Rainey is the same as starting Trent Richardson? Having a RB get 0.1 YPC is the same as running the ball 3 times and getting a first down? That won't effect wins? 3.) Lets see what happens to Trent's YPC number in Indi? What to take a bey it increases? I'll take any bets. "He averaged 3.6 YPC with broken ribs in teh factory of sadness therefore he sucks." Just Genius reasoning there. We're talking about a dude name Chud and Norv "The worst winning record in NFL history for a HC" Turner. He brought the San Diego Chargers offense to a grinding halt. Yes they are actually employed by NFL team, just barely but I'm willing to go with my opinion over Norv "Why isn't every QB like Troy Aikman and every RB like Emmit Smith?" Tuner. In 236 carries last year, he had TWO runs of 20 yards or more. This year his longest is 10. What is it that you are seeing that the Brown apparently are not? We are not talking about CJ Spiller here. And he has had 2 knee surgeries. No thanks. Edited September 19, 2013 by mannc
eball Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Something to keep in mind -- Indy's record last year was built on absolutely every break going their way down the stretch. Luck was good but not spectacular. Their defense was borderline awful and they needed a red zone INT against Terrelle freaking Pryor to win in W1 this year. What has their current GM proven, other than he can pick the obvious 1st round QB? The jury hasn't even been sent into deliberations yet. Yee-haw for Colts fans that their owner acts like a wild west gunslinger. He's apparently trying to be the NFL's version of Mark Cuban. Well, this ain't the NBA. While this trade kicks Browns fans in the shorts just two weeks into the season, I hope it works out for them in the long run. And I also hope Richardson continues his uninspiring play and the Colts limp home with a 7-9 record and no 2014 first round pick.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 For the Colts, I'm shaking my head. Richardson has injury issues and hasn't really shown he warranted such a high pick in the first place, nor that he's worth giving up another 1st rounder for. Why would the Colts be desperate right now? They have a young team -- this smacks of a move of a team that has a "last chance" to win the big one and wants to add the final piece for the stretch run. And that's the thing. The Colts are not "the final piece" away from being a championship team. They're not even two or three pieces away IMO. If I were a Colts fan I wouldn't like the trade. They could have traded for Mikel LeShoure (who looked godly in preseason after losing some weight after a fine rookie season) for a much lower pick. How do you figure he is one of the best young backs in the league? He averaged 3.6 YPC last year and is averaging only 3.4 this year. The current Browns regime, which has the opportunity to see him up close every day, obviously is not nearly as high on him as you are. And we are talking about a Running Back here. His loss will make little difference in how Cleveland fares this year. Again I agree with mannc completely. Richardson has proven nothing except that he's been an ineffective NFL running back. Eaxactly... while Irsay cam come off as a bit crazy at times, he wants to win and win now. The fan base certainly can't complain about that. When there was uncertainty about Manning's health and the team had just gone 2-14, he got rid of everyone, a HOF Exec, HOF QB, Freeney, etc, etc, and started over, albeit with the 2nd coming of Peyton Manning (maybe). They were going to take an RB in the 1st round anyway... but who knows where they would draft and who they would get. They already know what they have in Trent and his contract is dirt cheap. A bird in the hand... I think the whole "be happy that the owner wants to win" analysis is a big miss. Yeah it's great but you have to analyze the move itself. For instance, I didn't like when the Bills traded for Drew Bledsoe. I'd seen enough of the guy to feel that he wasn't the answer at QB. Was it a bold and aggressive move by a regime that wanted to win? Yes. Was it a good trade? Perhaps. They will. But if they don't, lots of others will, like Mariota, Boyd, Hundley, McCarron, Murray. It will be a far, far, better class than this year's. I think there is a much better chance this blows up in Indy's face: Richardson continues to be the injury-plagued, underperforming back he has been so far in his career, Indy has a worse year than expected and misses out on a great draft. You're dead-on again. This is shaping up as a great QB draft with numerous candidates emerging. This is possibly a historic QB draft class.
1B4IDie Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 In 236 carries last year, he had TWO runs of 20 yards or more. This year his longest is 10. What is it that you are seeing that the Brown apparently are not? We are not talking about CJ Spiller here. And he has had 2 knee surgeries. No thanks. Put your money where your mouth is.
mannc Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Eaxactly... while Irsay cam come off as a bit crazy at times, he wants to win and win now. Wow, sounds kind of like Al Davis trading a 1 and a 2 to the Bengals for Carson Palmer. Edited September 19, 2013 by mannc
YoloinOhio Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Wow, sounds kind of like Al Davis trading a 1 and a 2 to the Bengals for Carson Palmer. I know a little about Indy's FO, and Grigson is a little bit of a puppet and a little bit of a PR guy. This is why Irsay brought him in when he only had 1 year exp as a Personnel guy - the rest of his exp was as a scout. Grigson played at Purdue and is a big "Indiana" guy. He is kind of like a Russ Brandon but with a scouting background. He knew little about how to run a FO. When Polian was there, he was the President of the Colts and really kept what that org was doing pretty quiet. He controled a lot. When he ws cut loose, all of a sudent Irsay is tweeting all over the place, the team website focused on the cheerleaders more than the team, and everything they did was more PR-related than anything. This a "splash" for a team that just lost their starting RB, TE, and an OL for the year. They could tell Luck needed more to win and they didn't want to wait until the draft or sign a FA. They wanted a press conference. They wanted a splash. They got one, we'll see what they do with it. Edited September 19, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo
mannc Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 I know a little about Indy's FO, and Grigson is a little bit of a puppet and a little bit of a PR guy. This is why Irsay brought him in when he only had 1 year exp as a Personnel guy - the rest of his exp was as a scout. Grigson played at Purdue and is a big "Indiana" guy. He is kind of like a Russ Brandon but with a scouting background. He knew little about how to run a FO. When Polian was there, he was the President of the Colts and really kept what that org was doing pretty quiet. He controled a lot. When he ws cut loose, all of a sudent Irsay is tweeting all over the place, the team website focused on the cheerleaders more than the team, and everything they did was more PR-related than anything. This a "splash" for a team that just lost their starting RB, TE, and an OL for the year. They could tell Luck needed more to win and they didn't want to wait until the draft or sign a FA. They wanted a press conference. They wanted a splash. They got one, we'll see what they do with it. Did not mean to pick on you. It just seems that "win now" trades like this never turn out well in the NFL. As others pointed out, Indy seems to be a lot more than an average running back away from a title run.
YoloinOhio Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Did not mean to pick on you. It just seems that "win now" trades like this never turn out well in the NFL. As others pointed out, Indy seems to be a lot more than an average running back away from a title run. They are definitely more than 1 RB away, to be sure. But the AFC is fairly open this year... and they want tp strike when the iron is hot. I like Denver to go to the SB, but something tells me they will get tripped up with all their OL problems and once the weather gets bad Peyton is a different QB. It will be a very interesting season. Edited September 19, 2013 by YoloInTheBlo
Captain Hindsight Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Wow, sounds kind of like Al Davis trading a 1 and a 2 to the Bengals for Carson Palmer. Well Al Davis was dead then, it was Hue jackson
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) Did not mean to pick on you. It just seems that "win now" trades like this never turn out well in the NFL. As others pointed out, Indy seems to be a lot more than an average running back away from a title run. SF's trade for Deion Sanders in 1994 was a win-now trade. It worked. And let's not forget Seattle's trade for Marshawn Lynch. Edited September 19, 2013 by dave mcbride
eball Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 SF's trade for Deion Sanders in 1994 was a win-now trade. It worked. Unfortunately Indy couldn't talk Deion out of the booth, so they settled for Richardson.
The Big Cat Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 I can't believe all these reports I'm reading of people bending over backwards to justify this trade. not here, mind you. but cleveland media, et al.
YoloinOhio Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 Wow, sounds kind of like Al Davis trading a 1 and a 2 to the Bengals for Carson Palmer. I dont think you can compare these trades. The Raiders went all in for a QB and it didn't work and they didn't give it a chance to work. The Colts already have a QB, if Trent doesn't work out they move on without much upheaval. Maybe they don't have their late round 1, but they tried to win now.
1B4IDie Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 I can't believe all these reports I'm reading of people bending over backwards to justify this trade. not here, mind you. but cleveland media, et al. I concur. I think our optimistic Buffalo Media would have taken a different route if it happened in Buffalo.
dave mcbride Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) I can't believe all these reports I'm reading of people bending over backwards to justify this trade. not here, mind you. but cleveland media, et al. How was this a bad trade for Cleveland? The new FO there clearly doesn't believe that the Weeden/Richardson combo is the answer, so why not start anew ASAFP? It wasn't like they drafted them, and judging from the results so far, they're probably right. Also, the draft is going to be phenomenal next season. Sure, they're giving up on this season, but they were obviously going to be dreadful anyway. Edited September 19, 2013 by dave mcbride
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