Government Shut Down Looming!

[TakeYouToTasker]

I did make a rational argument. Just because the effects are imperceptible in my day to day life right now, doesn't mean these changes aren't important. Water on a stove reaches boiling one degree at a time. Frogs can't feel the difference.

 

On the flip side, please provide one example of how centralized government made your life better today. Go!

The further things get from local governments, the less control you have over them as citizens, and as a result you begin to stray from actual citizenship, and become more of a subject to your rulers, living in their castle down in DC.

 

I know pretty much everything there is to know about supply chains. The most efficient systems are those in which local managers are able to make vital real time decisions, rather than reporting up through a bureaucratic hierarchy. The bureaucratic hierachy costs more, contains more waste and is bloated with feckless middle managers, and delivers worse overall results.

 

If you see this systemic bloat happening at the local, or state level, you can get involved in your system, and effect real change. At the federal level, the waste and corruption are central to the existence of the system. You can't change it, and you aren't supposed to be able to.

[Azalin]

You are not? But you said in next sentence your biased against it taking the states authority. You are a piece of work man.

that's not a bias. I can't help it if you don't understand the constitutional role of the federal government vs that of the states. your ignorance is your antagonist here, not me.

 

 

So you would just feel better if states had more power?? How would that improve your life?

this alone shows your complete and total lack of understanding of the entire issue. it's not how the government, either federal or state, will improve my life. it's about how I will improve my own life.

[birdog1960]

And that's why the typical "investor" that does it themselves is usually !@#$ed because they get too emotionally involved and they look at their long term investments with their short term glasses. Getting pissed because your 25 year plan on your 401k is down this month is stupid. I do this for a living and I can't tell you how much I have in my retirement.

`you may not have known your balance but i'll bet you had a pretty good idea of your percentage drop the day lehman finally hit the public consciousness. and i'll wager you weren't happy. a protracted debt ceiling debate with tyhreats of default could easily precipitate the same scenario.

[OCinBuffalo]

i suppose you may be right. we can never assume the house republicans will do the right thing. if left to their own devices they'd have done nothing about healthcare. "we're number 37! yeah". but there's already been changes or at least postponements without their say. if they see those as a good thing for their narrow view, they'll likely vote to make them permanent.

In terms of absolute vale for the country as a whole?

 

Doing nothing would have been infinitely better for the economy than Obamacare.

Doing nothing was the right thing, in that context.

 

Now, talking specifically in terms of health care reform, and not, "punish the people we don't like" health insurance reform? No, doing nothing was not acceptable.

 

Health care costs were rising exponentially, and the causes had little/nothing to do with private insurance companies. Insurance companies were simply following Medicare's lead, as they ALWAYS do. If you want a culprit(which is actally pointless in this) start with Medicare.

 

In all cases, if Obamacare becomes the very identity of the Democratic party, which, sans Obama, it very likely will be. Without another "historic"(read: let's vote for the black guy so we can tell ourselves how "moral" we are) candidate, the turnout simply won't be there.

 

This is the biggest, most obvious thing that every Democrat seems to want to wish away, or is too dumb/naive/brainwashed to realize: if Obamacare is the candidate in 2014, and 2016, you guys are completely F'ed. And, you've already used up all your wedge issues. Gay Marriage isn't going to bail you out this time.

Says you. We have not seen it yet, and as for rate increases leadup to the exchanges, of course they have gone up, insurance compaines are loading up before they are more regulated.

It's not just insurance companies(why the F does no one understand this?). I have direct information from a VP of a pharma company you know: they have increased their prices by 1000%, and are trying to push them even higher. That's because: their prices will soon be locked down for the "duration". I say duration, because she said it. She thinks this law will be done in a few years, so, why not take as much profit as they can, and then blame Democrats for it later? That's exactly their gameplan.

 

So, great, your dopey law now found a way to legistlate Weimar Republic-level inflation in health care. This is cutting cost? Locking in punitive pricing forever? Not to mention givng the pharma guys cause to reap windfall profits, and, giving them a way to blame you for it? Democrats whoring themselves out the pharma companies, in order to get Obamacare passed, costs a hell of lot doesn't it? The worst is, in this case the whore also pays the client.

 

What geniuses. These are just some of the intended consequences I know are coming, or have already happened.

Precisely. I am getting tired of discussing it, Obama passed it so it is bad... there is no flipping that conclusion for some no matter he benefits.... as with most things, as after the apocolypse prediction has failed to come to pass, people will go on with their lives and wonder what all the doom and gloom talk was about. I am sure Medicare and SS had the same "world ending, destruction of America" talk as well... people seem to like those, even though they need reform.

Read what I just wrote above, and tell me where Obama himself figures in. He doesn't. Besides, he had nothing to do with most of this. This was the Democratic whores in the US Sente, letting the pharma companies have their way, and get paid for that, in return for keeping their lobbyists at bay.

 

Obama has nothing to do with any of that.

 

The negaitve outcomes have ALREADY come to pass. I swear health care people like yourself live in a bubble. I have clients who have already laid people off. I have clients who have cancelled new hire initiatives, and expansion. I know people who have cut their employees hours to 29 a week. The reason: Obamacare.

 

WTF do you think is happening out here in the real world, outside your bubble? This ain't about things that might "come to pass", these things have already happened.

 

And, if we don't fix SSI/Medicare we will have even bigger problems. Surely you are aware of that? Or, are you truly a bubble boy?

the healthy people or their employers already are subsidizing the sick. and they're subsidizing the inadequate emergency care of the uninsured. the aca is just forcing an honest accounting for covering the cost of caring for 300 million americans vs 270 million. can the costs be reduced? well, sure if folks would stop screaming about "death panels" and rationing every time someone mentions rational limits on care.

Right, so we should implement rationing of health care as a solution. Rationing is rationing. It's not "rational limits". When you give away something for free, and have the people who recieve it have no responsibility for it, they will abuse it. After you realize this, you WILL respond by rationing it. Why wouldn't you? You arlready believe you know better about who should get what? Why wouldn't you see rationing as merely an extension of that?

 

When are you clowns going to realize that not all health care is created equal, no different than not all patients are the same.

 

Therefore, creating centralized plans that are predicated on everybody being the same, their health needs being the same, and their health providers being the same: is sheer idiocy?

 

You aren't "patient centered" with this approach. Not even close.

[TakeYouToTasker]

`you may not have known your balance but i'll bet you had a pretty good idea of your percentage drop the day lehman finally hit the public consciousness. and i'll wager you weren't happy. a protracted debt ceiling debate with tyhreats of default could easily precipitate the same scenario.

On a personal level, I was thrilled when the markets crashed. 401k's and other qualified plans are built for buy and hold, and you don't lose a nickle unless you panic, like an idiot, and sell. My accounts, invested aggressively, have more than rebounded, as they always will.

 

Now the reason I was thrilled? The crash provided me an opportunity to purchase in my brokerage account and purchase distressed properties at market bottom. Apple at less that 100/share, Google at less than 300, BOA? Less than 5 per share. The deal I got on a large plot in VT and a nice 5 tenment rental property, which after I invested some TLC fix-up dollars, and minor renovations, are always fully rented, locally were foolishly good.

Edited September 19, 2013 by TakeYouToTasker

[birdog1960]

http://www.breitbart...crats-obamacare

it's honest. so when we threaten default, we can now explain to americans using this piece that it was never about the aca (nor were the 30+ other votes against it) but really about winning red senate seats. any bad consequences to the economy, and you'll hear qoutes from this article screamed from rooftops. has anyone on the red team considered that this might not be the brilliant plan they thought it was?

[Keukasmallies]

Shutdown, schmutdown, how will we know the difference since little or nothing gets done in the course of a legislative session at present?

[Tiberius]

 

The squabbling among Republicans has gotten so vicious that a Twitter hashtag — #GOPvsGOPugliness — has become a thick virtual data file for tracking the intraparty insults. Moderates, and even some conservatives, are slamming Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, a tea party favorite, for ramping up grassroots expectations that the GOP will shut down the government if it can’t win concessions from the president to “defund” his signature health care law.

“I didn’t go to Harvard or Princeton, but I can count,” Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) tweeted, subtly mocking Cruz’s Ivy League education. “The defunding box canyon is a tactic that will fail and weaken our position.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/republicans-budget-obama-97093.html#ixzz2fRN49OZm

[Chef Jim]

 

 

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/republicans-budget-obama-97093.html#ixzz2fRN49OZm

 

And toeing the party line is such a good thing because both parties have done such a fantastic job lately. To me the amount partisanship one displays is in direct correlation to someone's lack of critical thought.

[Tiberius]

And toeing the party line is such a good thing because both parties have done such a fantastic job lately. To me the amount partisanship one displays is in direct correlation to someone's lack of critical thought.

 

If toeing the party line means the government will be funded to do its job, then yes its a good thing. Only idiots want the government shut down

[Nanker]

Somebody's afraid he's not going to get his food stamps soon.

[Chef Jim]

`you may not have known your balance but i'll bet you had a pretty good idea of your percentage drop the day lehman finally hit the public consciousness. and i'll wager you weren't happy. a protracted debt ceiling debate with tyhreats of default could easily precipitate the same scenario.

 

My percentage drop that day? No !@#$ing clue. Was I unhappy? Well I wasn't throwing confetti but I don't frett too much over things I have little control over. And to your last sentence? OH NO!!!!!!! LET'S GO TO CASH!!

 

If toeing the party line means the government will be funded to do its job, then yes its a good thing. Only idiots want the government shut down

 

So you actaully think the government doesn't have enough money to do it's job? How much do they need exactly?

[B-Large]

In terms of absolute vale for the country as a whole?

 

Doing nothing would have been infinitely better for the economy than Obamacare.

Doing nothing was the right thing, in that context.

 

Now, talking specifically in terms of health care reform, and not, "punish the people we don't like" health insurance reform? No, doing nothing was not acceptable.

 

Health care costs were rising exponentially, and the causes had little/nothing to do with private insurance companies. Insurance companies were simply following Medicare's lead, as they ALWAYS do. If you want a culprit(which is actally pointless in this) start with Medicare.

 

In all cases, if Obamacare becomes the very identity of the Democratic party, which, sans Obama, it very likely will be. Without another "historic"(read: let's vote for the black guy so we can tell ourselves how "moral" we are) candidate, the turnout simply won't be there.

 

This is the biggest, most obvious thing that every Democrat seems to want to wish away, or is too dumb/naive/brainwashed to realize: if Obamacare is the candidate in 2014, and 2016, you guys are completely F'ed. And, you've already used up all your wedge issues. Gay Marriage isn't going to bail you out this time.

 

It's not just insurance companies(why the F does no one understand this?). I have direct information from a VP of a pharma company you know: they have increased their prices by 1000%, and are trying to push them even higher. That's because: their prices will soon be locked down for the "duration". I say duration, because she said it. She thinks this law will be done in a few years, so, why not take as much profit as they can, and then blame Democrats for it later? That's exactly their gameplan.

 

So, great, your dopey law now found a way to legistlate Weimar Republic-level inflation in health care. This is cutting cost? Locking in punitive pricing forever? Not to mention givng the pharma guys cause to reap windfall profits, and, giving them a way to blame you for it? Democrats whoring themselves out the pharma companies, in order to get Obamacare passed, costs a hell of lot doesn't it? The worst is, in this case the whore also pays the client.

 

What geniuses. These are just some of the intended consequences I know are coming, or have already happened.

 

Read what I just wrote above, and tell me where Obama himself figures in. He doesn't. Besides, he had nothing to do with most of this. This was the Democratic whores in the US Sente, letting the pharma companies have their way, and get paid for that, in return for keeping their lobbyists at bay.

 

Obama has nothing to do with any of that.

 

The negaitve outcomes have ALREADY come to pass. I swear health care people like yourself live in a bubble. I have clients who have already laid people off. I have clients who have cancelled new hire initiatives, and expansion. I know people who have cut their employees hours to 29 a week. The reason: Obamacare.

 

WTF do you think is happening out here in the real world, outside your bubble? This ain't about things that might "come to pass", these things have already happened.

 

And, if we don't fix SSI/Medicare we will have even bigger problems. Surely you are aware of that? Or, are you truly a bubble boy?

 

Right, so we should implement rationing of health care as a solution. Rationing is rationing. It's not "rational limits". When you give away something for free, and have the people who recieve it have no responsibility for it, they will abuse it. After you realize this, you WILL respond by rationing it. Why wouldn't you? You arlready believe you know better about who should get what? Why wouldn't you see rationing as merely an extension of that?

 

When are you clowns going to realize that not all health care is created equal, no different than not all patients are the same.

 

Therefore, creating centralized plans that are predicated on everybody being the same, their health needs being the same, and their health providers being the same: is sheer idiocy?

 

You aren't "patient centered" with this approach. Not even close.

 

Of course you know people who have cut jobs, reduced hours and blamed it on the Affordable Care Act... color me shocked from my bubble... lol

[Azalin]

Somebody's afraid he's not going to get his food stamps soon.

read what he said.....he wants the government shut down.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Azalin

[meazza]

If toeing the party line means the government will be funded to do its job, then yes its a good thing. Only idiots want the government shut down

 

So you're basically admitting that you're a tool?

[TakeYouToTasker]

 

 

So you're basically admitting that you're a tool?

I don't understand. Had there been some prior confusion?

[meazza]

I don't understand. Had there been some prior confusion?

 

Touché

[Dante]

Shutdown, schmutdown, how will we know the difference since little or nothing gets done in the course of a legislative session at present?

 

Shut them down for a month who cares. Non productive expense.

[Tiberius]

So you're basically admitting that you're a tool?

You are totally shot

 

I don't understand. Had there been some prior confusion?

 

Oh funny, you two 1% just soooo intimidate me, lol.

[meazza]

You are totally shot

 

 

 

Oh funny, you two 1% just soooo intimidate me, lol.

 

I am what?

 

1%?