Joe Miner Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 My guess is most people (in polls) don't feel shutting down the Government, Restricting Borrowing or try to Defund/delay the ACA with this Tactic is good policy, rather if Republicans really want to affect change, they should achieve this by capturing the sensibilities of hardworking Americans, therefore winning more elections and changing the Government legislatively. Is that what should have happened when bill was passed in the first place? Most polling showed about 60% of the country was against it. MA even elected a Rep to take Kennedy's seat to block it giving the GOP a filibuster. That's about as loudly as this country will every speak. There was no capturing of the sensibilities of hardworking Americans in order to pass this bill. Elections have consequences, and for once the country did it's best to elect people that would give them the result they desired. But the Dems found a way around those election consequences, and are now bitching and moaning when similar round about tactics are being used to attempt to get what the other side wants. If sidestepping the legislative process is not good now, why was it good just a couple of years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) Dr. No Coburn used to be pretty conservative... by his own admission on the Tube the other day he seems like a moderate. I am wondering if the old white folks in the GOP are starting to ask this question: "The Tea Party is no afraid of taking ont he ACA by any means and don't seem to be deterred by elder Statesmen in either party, what will stop them from getting their hand on my Medicare and SS?" Their fierce effort to look at all the Government as debatable, and they're stance that there are no Scared Cows is one reason I find them refreshing, but at the same time, I worry about that recklessness in that furry of small Government sentiment. agree completely (except that in this case i don't find refreshing a good thing). at the same time, everything in the repub party has shifted one space more conservative. no liberals remain, old moderates = rino's, old conservatives = moderates and conservatives = wacko's. Edited October 15, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Can someone (not Gator) summarize the reasons why GOP is getting most of the rap on this shutdown? Other than trying to delay implementation of ACA as a condition of negotiations... DC Tom knows the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Large Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Is that what should have happened when bill was passed in the first place? Most polling showed about 60% of the country was against it. MA even elected a Rep to take Kennedy's seat to block it giving the GOP a filibuster. That's about as loudly as this country will every speak. There was no capturing of the sensibilities of hardworking Americans in order to pass this bill. Elections have consequences, and for once the country did it's best to elect people that would give them the result they desired. But the Dems found a way around those election consequences, and are now bitching and moaning when similar round about tactics are being used to attempt to get what the other side wants. If sidestepping the legislative process is not good now, why was it good just a couple of years ago? right, so its all about Gray areas. One might argue the Supermajorities were sent to congres to get National priority items like Healthcare accomplished, and they were almost there, does one seat negate all momentum? Deem and Pass has been used before... It why I suggested early in this thread that if HCR is untouchable, which I think it should be short-term, why not nogeitiate on change to programs other places in the Government from the Dem perspective? Would further mean-testing of SS or Medicare kills anyone? Both sides can call a win, and we all move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Dr. No Coburn used to be pretty conservative... by his own admission on the Tube the other day he seems like a moderate. I am wondering if the old white folks in the GOP are starting to ask this question: "The Tea Party is no afraid of taking ont he ACA by any means and don't seem to be deterred by elder Statesmen in either party, what will stop them from getting their hand on my Medicare and SS?" Their fierce effort to look at all the Government as debatable, and they're stance that there are no Scared Cows is one reason I find them refreshing, but at the same time, I worry about that recklessness in that furry of small Government sentiment. There's no fraidy cats in the Tea Party either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 right, so its all about Gray areas. One might argue the Supermajorities were sent to congres to get National priority items like Healthcare accomplished, and they were almost there, does one seat negate all momentum? Deem and Pass has been used before... It why I suggested early in this thread that if HCR is untouchable, which I think it should be short-term, why not nogeitiate on change to programs other places in the Government from the Dem perspective? Would further mean-testing of SS or Medicare kills anyone? Both sides can call a win, and we all move on. What about the past decade makes you think that these idiots can ever work together to bring about a solution that's good for America? What was the last major piece of good for America legislation that was passed that both sides worked together to craft and had good support across party lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 What about the past decade makes you think that these idiots can ever work together to bring about a solution that's good for America? What was the last major piece of good for America legislation that was passed that both sides worked together to craft and had good support across party lines? The USA PATRIOT Act? Just kidding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Can someone (not Gator) summarize the reasons why GOP is getting most of the rap on this shutdown? Other than trying to delay implementation of ACA as a condition of negotiations... Part of the answer lies in the media. If you pay attention to the way the WH handles the media, you will learn that many journalists and reporters have lost their key contacts: those people who would talk off the record to help them get a scoop. This happened when it was released that the Justice Department was investigating some journlalists like the WH reporter from Fox News. Once that happened, the well dried up and all contacts shut up for fear of being tapped and followed by Holder. The only thing left is for the media to take the leaks the WH gives them (CNN Today: Source says Boehner can't get the votes and is sabotaging any deal), and do what it says, lest they lose what little access they have left to the WH. Fortunately, it doesn't matter what the press does because you can't look at any shutdown that ever took place in our history and not tie it directly back to the president. Come 2014, no one will remember anything except that the guy in charge is a thin-skinned punk who believes the way to get things done is to throw a temper tantrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Their fierce effort to look at all the Government as debatable, and they're stance that there are no Scared Cows is one reason I find them refreshing, but at the same time, I worry about that recklessness in that furry of small Government sentiment. Clearly, they have not had grassfed charolais... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Can someone (not Gator) summarize the reasons why GOP is getting most of the rap on this shutdown? Other than trying to delay implementation of ACA as a condition of negotiations... because most people can understand baseball http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/08/applying-government-shutdown-logic-to-the-baseball-playoffs/screen-shot-2013-10-08-at-11-59-41-am/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/15/20960588-the-new-american-center-why-our-nation-isnt-as-divided-as-we-think?lite. this is why the republicans are losing in the polls in this fight. and it ain't gonna change by 2014... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 http://nbcpolitics.n...s-we-think?lite. this is why the republicans are losing in the polls in this fight. and it ain't gonna change by 2014... Do you think the reason that the dems are so good at the blame game is because it comes natural for them, or is it because they've had so much practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Do you think the reason that the dems are so good at the blame game is because it comes natural for them, or is it because they've had so much practice? i think i took the quiz and am very surprised by the outcome: minivan moderate. 1 bar away from the median group. perhaps the folks here are outliers compared to the rest of the population...but i've never owned anything remotely resembling a minivan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 (edited) http://dish.andrewsu...te-republicans/from andrew sullivan, widely regarded as a conservative "there is effectively no republican party anymore. there is a radical movement to remove the modern American state..." Edited October 15, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 http://nbcpolitics.n...s-we-think?lite. this is why the republicans are losing in the polls in this fight. and it ain't gonna change by 2014... The only people who think Americans are going to remember this stupid funding fight, let alone who is to blame for it, when the mid-terms come around are people who still think Barack Obama is an effective leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 The only people who think Americans are going to remember this stupid funding fight, let alone who is to blame for it, when the mid-terms come around are people who still think Barack Obama is an effective leader. the one thing i agree on is that this is a stupid funding fight. this fight hits people's wallets and they'll long remember..."it's the economy, stupid" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Gerrymandering will make it moot anyway, even if by some chance they do remember. Which I doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Gerrymandering will make it moot anyway, even if by some chance they do remember. Which I doubt. maybe. and maybe the 75-80% (and growing) of the electorate who currently don't subscribe to the will of the tea party will demand the gerrymandering undone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 maybe. and maybe the 75-80% (and growing) of the electorate who currently don't subscribe to the will of the tea party will demand the gerrymandering undone. I gotta know. In your mind what is wrong with reducing the waste and spending within the Federal Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) I gotta know. In your mind what is wrong with reducing the waste and spending within the Federal Government. nothing. reinventing the wheel is generally a bad idea though. and no, the current us healthcare system isn't a wheel but a plough. Edited October 16, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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