birdog1960 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite self explanatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 He won't bother to click the links. It doesn't suit his world vision. Yeah. But here's some more: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/149109-romney-is-now-a-birther/page__st__40#entry2540156 http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/148101-romney-opens-5-point-lead-over-obama/page__st__420#entry2539951 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) And the idea about sending simple stuff sounds great in theory. But won't be practical. it's already happening. the system cfo's are already pushing it. no doubt there are problems: patients unhappy seeing lower level providers, doctors potentially unhappy if pay goes down due to decreased volume, more referrals from jittery midlevels, more primary care docs going into concierge practice etc. the suits seem aware of these pitfalls and promise more pay for quality over volume, changing demographics of patients favoring convenience over quality (see jboys post about minute care which btw is an urgent care in essence) and higher staffing ratios for primary care. i'll believe all that when i see it but they've got plenty of incentive to make it work. if the aco model fails, they're one step back from square one and one step closer to single payer. Edited October 10, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 it's already happening. the system cfo's are already pushing it. no doubt there are problems: patients unhappy seeing lower level providers, doctors potentially unhappy if pay goes down due to decreased volume, more referrals from jittery midlevels, more primary care docs going into concierge practice etc. the suits seem aware of these pitfalls and promise more pay for quality over volume, changing demographics of patients favoring convenience over quality (see jboys post about minute care which btw is an urgent care) and higher staffing ratios for primary care. i'll believe all that when i see it but they've got plenty of incentive to make it work. if the aco model fails, they're one step back from square one and one step closer to single payer. If you are foolish enough to believe what a suit tells you... And stop with the single payer stuff. As I've told you, Obamacare will ironically create such a backlash against it, despite being designed to lead to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 If you are foolish enough to believe what a suit tells you... And stop with the single payer stuff. As I've told you, Obamacare will ironically create such a backlash against it, despite being designed to lead to it. It's also going to create a crying need for an epic bailout of the insurance industry. That'll trump any backlash, ultimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 It's also going to create a crying need for an epic bailout of the insurance industry. That'll trump any backlash, ultimately. The timing of this is going to fall on the next watch, too, with any luck...but it will still be blamed on Bush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 The timing of this is going to fall on the next watch, too, with any luck...but it will still be blamed on Bush. Two administrations from now. Figure about 16 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 "the only leverage we have is the budget". uh huh, so if you want to change things start winning elections outside of bright red districts.http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SHUTDOWN_GOP_TEA_PARTY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-10-11-03-56-20. going all in with a jack high is usually a loser. and right on cue, ann coulter's book says the establishment repubs are the problem and need to be removed. with enemies lik e that, whio needs friends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 "the only leverage we have is the budget". uh huh, so if you want to change things start winning elections outside of bright red districts.http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SHUTDOWN_GOP_TEA_PARTY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-10-11-03-56-20. going all in with a jack high is usually a loser. and right on cue, ann coulter's book says the establishment repubs are the problem and need to be removed. with enemies lik e that, whio needs friends? isn't the entire way then political process functions the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 isn't the entire way then political process functions the problem? no this shut down in an effort to defund a standing law is unprecedented. and for good reason as nothing can be accomplished if the minority can continually hold the majority hostage like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 and for good reason as nothing can be accomplished if the minority can continually hold the majority hostage like this. Imagine if the majority had a true leader. Imagine if the country had a true leader. The founders wanted checks and balances, and now you have them. No surprise that progressives see this as a "hostage" thing with words like "ransom" and "terrorists." A true leader fixes this. Hell, even a mediocre leader fixes this. Hell, it could fix itself by mistake, but not if the person who shut the government down refuses to talk to anyone...and Obama has re-buffed everything so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) Imagine if the majority had a true leader. Imagine if the country had a true leader. The founders wanted checks and balances, and now you have them. No surprise that progressives see this as a "hostage" thing with words like "ransom" and "terrorists." A true leader fixes this. Hell, even a mediocre leader fixes this. Hell, it could fix itself by mistake, but not if the person who shut the government down refuses to talk to anyone...and Obama has re-buffed everything so far. the only people that seem to believe that this strategy is reasonable are those on the far right. and they become less accepted by the rest of the electorate every day. the establishment repubs haven't done a great job with the brand but the tea party may actually kill it. edsel anyone? Edited October 11, 2013 by birdog1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 the only people that seem to believe that this strategy is reasonable are those on the far right. and they're become less accepted by the rest of the electorate every day. the establishment repubs haven't done a great job with the brand but the tea party may actually kill it. edsel anyone? Oh, please. First, you sound like a petulant child by repeating my Edsel comment. Next, if you honestly believe the electorate is going to remember ANY of this in a year, you're a bigger fool than even Tom thinks. When this dust clears, Obamacare remains...and it will hang over the Democrats for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Obamacare exchange rates for 2015 will be announced in October next year. They're going to go over like a lead balloon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Obamacare exchange rates for 2015 will be announced in October next year. They're going to go over like a lead balloon. You really think the President will allow the rates to be announced 1 month before the midterms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Oh, please. First, you sound like a petulant child by repeating my Edsel comment. Next, if you honestly believe the electorate is going to remember ANY of this in a year, you're a bigger fool than even Tom thinks. When this dust clears, Obamacare remains...and it will hang over the Democrats for decades. Weren't you the guy hitching your horse to J.P. Losman? LoL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 You really think the President will allow the rates to be announced 1 month before the midterms? I'm sure he'll try to delay it. But the Repubs will just use that to tell people the reason for that is because their rates are skyrocketing and Barry and the Dems don't want to release that info before the elections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Once the Republicans give in here, it will be interesting to see if anyone will make progress on budget management. The Repubs already caved on ACA in this latest round (turns out Ted Cruz's position on ACA was not that popular), but hopefully they can be firm on the spending cuts. Doubtful, but I still hope they can. Telling in this are the stories about how this has been Reid's show and he asked Obama to bench Biden. That's a massive mistake by Obama to give in to Reid's request. Biden, for all the jokes about his public gaffes, is a true dealmaker. Something Obama is not. If you put Biden and Boehner/Ryan/McConnell in a room, the deal that comes out will be bad for both sides, and good for us all. The second Reid or Pelosi or Obama are in that room, it gets divisive. I hope Obama sees that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 (edited) I'm sure he'll try to delay it. But the Repubs will just use that to tell people the reason for that is because their rates are skyrocketing and Barry and the Dems don't want to release that info before the elections. But the narrative of WHY the rate announcement is delayed will be driven by the WH, not the HoR. Edited October 11, 2013 by Taro T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 Telling in this are the stories about how this has been Reid's show and he asked Obama to bench Biden. That's a massive mistake by Obama to give in to Reid's request. Biden, for all the jokes about his public gaffes, is a true dealmaker. Something Obama is not. If you put Biden and Boehner/Ryan/McConnell in a room, the deal that comes out will be bad for both sides, and good for us all. The second Reid or Pelosi or Obama are in that room, it gets divisive. I hope Obama sees that. You're funny. You're still pretending that the administration knows how to govern as opposed to constantly campaigning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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