Chef Jim Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 http://americablog.c...-obamacare.html. well, hannity and cruz agree so how could i possibly be wrong? There are a lot of things Americans like that are in the long run not good for the country.
birdog1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 There are a lot of things Americans like that are in the long run not good for the country. yes, but that's a different argument than the one i was presenting. do you concede that the urgency is based on this concern?
3rdnlng Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 Now that is interesting. I looked up delusional in dictionary and this post came up. Dig further, he's the top vote getter in delusional posts in way more than one category.
Doc Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 http://americablog.c...-obamacare.html. well, hannity and cruz agree so how could i possibly be wrong? Dumb article. Cruz is trying to derail it now because once it's implemented, it will be almost impossible to get rid of, not that he thinks Americans will like it. Which they don't and won't even more once the full realization of it hits.
Chef Jim Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 yes, but that's a different argument than the one i was presenting. do you concede that the urgency is based on this concern? No, the concern is that the country is broke and cannot afford it.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) How many people were uninsured before and now will be able to get insurance reasonably @ the expense of others that enjoyed being better off in the system? Is it 30 million, 40 million...?? Call us delusion... birddoggie is right. But that is the 800 pound gorilla in the room for these Teabagging dingbats... Like it or not, somebody is gonna swallow the bitter pill... Glad it isn't them 40 million... Time to step up Cruz old boy and be a good American. Forward! As a federal worker... My outta pocket premium crept up the last 10 years to 305 dollars every two weeks from about 150. My agency is paying about 60%... Myself 40%. My end of the premium now, for the same coverage, is 150. I am paying what I did 10 years ago. Employee/Agency still goes roughly 60/40. Those are my numbers. I gotta a lot of room to give to return to that 300 number! Do the math, between my agency and myself... Premium for the year was under 20 grand... Humana was living the high life! Edited September 28, 2013 by ExiledInIllinois
OCinBuffalo Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) cruz is losing all credibility with any but extremists. divided his party and will still ultimately lose this battle. and it wasn't even good drama. nice work teddy boy. Wow. Holy "I am going to parrot the wishcasting of every leftist columinst I can find, and ignore the poll data" Batman. Have you even considered the data that says: this ain't 1996? Hell, I was gonna do a whole thread...but...for once, the media(right, left, everybody) beat me to it. But then, ever since 2 days ago...they are trying to spin the data that says this is 1996...when 0 suggests this is reality. Instead, I chose to spend my time with some Asian trouble-makers. It's an all-girl thing. I win, you fail. Get used to it. I'm tending to agree with this lately. Come hell or high water, make the Dems own it. Then I'd make them all government employees enroll it. Period. Most Americans hate ACA. Just spend eternity reminding everyone who was responsible for it, over and over and over because everyone knows more people will come to hate long before anyone says they like. Hang in around their necks and make they carry it wherever they go. You know, every time you/somebody says this? I'm reminded that The Stimulus FAIL/green shovels that weren't ready(thanks to corrupt city politicians...like in Detroit/Chicago)...wasn't the Democrats fault. I am reminded that DC_Tom, in clear language, told us all that Obama would be re-elected...based on nothing more than: people are idiots. Yes, a theory, per se, from Tom, that was predicated on nothing more than behavioral psychology, and Tom's, "path of least resistance" reasoning. Edited September 28, 2013 by OCinBuffalo
Keukasmallies Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 I can't keep up with this post. I'm too busy stocking up on toilet paper and bottled water in preparation for shutdown. I've moved the cows to high ground, filled all three gas cans, and stocked up on Twizzlers.
OCinBuffalo Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 I can't keep up with this post. I'm too busy stocking up on toilet paper and bottled water in preparation for shutdown. I've moved the cows to high ground, filled all three gas cans, and stocked up on Twizzlers. Well, at least you have your priorities in order. Life without Twizzlers is simply: not. Now, if we can get this same passion for Twizzlers...oriented towards providing information, to those who are low in information? That's a plan. Perhaps it starts with Free Twizzlers?
birdog1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) Dumb article. Cruz is trying to derail it now because once it's implemented, it will be almost impossible to get rid of, not that he thinks Americans will like it. Which they don't and won't even more once the full realization of it hits. you seemingly ignore the fact that very little of the bill has been implemented yet. people believe what they're told and they're told it won't work. the parts that have been implemented are very popular. and if you're actually right and it's a train wreck, why will it be impossible to remove? it should then be easy. How many people were uninsured before and now will be able to get insurance reasonably @ the expense of others that enjoyed being better off in the system? Is it 30 million, 40 million...?? Call us delusion... birddoggie is right. But that is the 800 pound gorilla in the room for these Teabagging dingbats... Like it or not, somebody is gonna swallow the bitter pill... Glad it isn't them 40 million... Time to step up Cruz old boy and be a good American. Forward! As a federal worker... My outta pocket premium crept up the last 10 years to 305 dollars every two weeks from about 150. My agency is paying about 60%... Myself 40%. My end of the premium now, for the same coverage, is 150. I am paying what I did 10 years ago. Employee/Agency still goes roughly 60/40. Those are my numbers. I gotta a lot of room to give to return to that 300 number! Do the math, between my agency and myself... Premium for the year was under 20 grand... Humana was living the high life! $20,000? wow. and folks are worried that the aca will cause well people to subsidize sick ones?(assuming you are well). mostly this begs the question: why doesn't the federal gov't self insure for it's employees. a medicare type product has to come in cheaper than this? Edited September 28, 2013 by birdog1960
OCinBuffalo Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) you seemingly ignore the fact that very little of the bill has been implemented yet. people believe what they're told and they're told it won't work. the parts that have been implemented are very popular. and if you're actually right and it's a train wreck, why will it be impossible to remove? it should then be easy. Right doctor. Let's ask you a doctor question: If a system of a patient is beginning to fail, do you tell us that the disease hasn't been implemented fully, or do you recognize it as disease, and move to eradicate it immediately? Perhaps DC_Tom can tell you about knowing something is going to fail, and going forward with it anyway. Hehehe...while we are at it...let's talk Medicare! He works with the government. In my world? This kind of excuse/pretend reason for bad behavior/performance? This gets you fired. Yes, real fired, not assign you to a new job someplace else in the mess...no. Real fired. $20,000? wow. and folks are worried that the aca will cause well people to subsidize sick ones?(assuming you are well). mostly this begs the question: why doesn't the federal gov't self insure for it's employees. a medicare type product has to come in cheaper than this? Amazing. How little health care providers know about health care insurance providers....and how willing they are to buy the crap form a non-effected union employee. Apparently none of you unmitigated morons realize that Medicare. Yes, Medicare. Medicare is Reason #1 why health care costs have continuously increased. Yeah in and year out. Either that, or, you do know, but, you don't want to tell the truth about it.. Simple example: If Medicare, out of the blue, decides it's going to cover a treatment for liberal D-baggery...what happens? Be honest. What exactly would happen, in order, with that, and what does that do to cost, system wide? Medicare is NOT the solution here. Medicare is the ENEMY! Edited September 28, 2013 by OCinBuffalo
Nanker Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 He LOVES Medicare. What's not to love? There's one omnipotent bureaucracy setting the rules (as formulated by lobbyist-influenced politicians and their appointees), mandating the provider's performance levels (universally applied minimalism), control the compensation scales (30 cents on the dollar - but hey, they send a ton of patients your way!), and are tougher to deal with than the Politburo. It's so easy therefore to shrug your shoulders, take a deep breath and sigh in numb resignation to the fact that resistance is futile and the government owns you. He takes great comfort in that, as most communist do in having the omnipotent central government authority running the economy and their society. And once those other pesky, nuisance creating healthcare insurance providers are done away with, things will be so much better with a single lowest common denominator in place. Because everyone will have to obey the one true master, the giver and taker, the one true god - government. He's in the business because he's altruistically driven to help his fellow man and isn't in it for the dirty money. But hey, anyone got any really good stock tips? I want to make a killing so I can get out of this ****ty business and do something really neat with my life.
birdog1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 (edited) He LOVES Medicare. What's not to love? There's one omnipotent bureaucracy setting the rules (as formulated by lobbyist-influenced politicians and their appointees), mandating the provider's performance levels (universally applied minimalism), control the compensation scales (30 cents on the dollar - but hey, they send a ton of patients your way!), and are tougher to deal with than the Politburo. It's so easy therefore to shrug your shoulders, take a deep breath and sigh in numb resignation to the fact that resistance is futile and the government owns you. He takes great comfort in that, as most communist do in having the omnipotent central government authority running the economy and their society. And once those other pesky, nuisance creating healthcare insurance providers are done away with, things will be so much better with a single lowest common denominator in place. Because everyone will have to obey the one true master, the giver and taker, the one true god - government. He's in the business because he's altruistically driven to help his fellow man and isn't in it for the dirty money. But hey, anyone got any really good stock tips? I want to make a killing so I can get out of this ****ty business and do something really neat with my life. there goes your black/white thinking again. i don't agree with all consensus decisions although there is some pretty compelling evidence for herd behavior being effective. i can disagree with some ideas/policies (and usually do, loudly) and yet still like the system. similarly, i can enjoy and feel fulfilled by my work while making comparatively much less than my specialist colleagues yet still want to do well in the stock market so that i feel secure in my future and enjoy more freedom in personal decisions (ie, you don't have to vow poverty to support universal health care). i can also advocate for lessening of the differential in reimbursement both because it will make the system work better and more efficiently and because i will also benefit directly. these are not mutually exclusive goals. and i have no plan for early retirement. i like my job. alot. now, a 3 day week in a few years... Right doctor. Let's ask you a doctor question: If a system of a patient is beginning to fail, do you tell us that the disease hasn't been implemented fully, or do you recognize it as disease, and move to eradicate it immediately? Perhaps DC_Tom can tell you about knowing something is going to fail, and going forward with it anyway. Hehehe...while we are at it...let's talk Medicare! He works with the government. In my world? This kind of excuse/pretend reason for bad behavior/performance? This gets you fired. Yes, real fired, not assign you to a new job someplace else in the mess...no. Real fired. Amazing. How little health care providers know about health care insurance providers....and how willing they are to buy the crap form a non-effected union employee. Apparently none of you unmitigated morons realize that Medicare. Yes, Medicare. Medicare is Reason #1 why health care costs have continuously increased. Yeah in and year out. Either that, or, you do know, but, you don't want to tell the truth about it.. Simple example: If Medicare, out of the blue, decides it's going to cover a treatment for liberal D-baggery...what happens? Be honest. What exactly would happen, in order, with that, and what does that do to cost, system wide? Medicare is NOT the solution here. Medicare is the ENEMY! there is very little truth to this. medicare has been covering preventive services almost from day one after the aca was passed. many private policies still don't (but soon will). i have an hsa. it covers very little except catastrophic care. medicare hasn't influenced it very much, if at all. but the truth in your statement is in the fact that the hybrid private/public model is inherently inefficient. Edited September 28, 2013 by birdog1960
Tiberius Posted September 28, 2013 Author Posted September 28, 2013 No, the concern is that the country is broke and cannot afford it. The United States is broke? Really? Then raise taxes. Know who was really broke and still instituted national health care? The British after WW2. Broke as hell yet they gave all their citizens health care and it works great.
Doc Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 How many people were uninsured before and now will be able to get insurance reasonably @ the expense of others that enjoyed being better off in the system? Is it 30 million, 40 million...?? Call us delusion... birddoggie is right. But that is the 800 pound gorilla in the room for these Teabagging dingbats... Like it or not, somebody is gonna swallow the bitter pill... Glad it isn't them 40 million... Time to step up Cruz old boy and be a good American. Forward! As a federal worker... My outta pocket premium crept up the last 10 years to 305 dollars every two weeks from about 150. My agency is paying about 60%... Myself 40%. My end of the premium now, for the same coverage, is 150. I am paying what I did 10 years ago. Employee/Agency still goes roughly 60/40. Those are my numbers. I gotta a lot of room to give to return to that 300 number! Do the math, between my agency and myself... Premium for the year was under 20 grand... Humana was living the high life! About 11M people will be able to purchase insurance thanks to Obamacare. For now. When premiums skyrocket...not so much. And the $150 is your portion of the premium on an exchange? Depends on who you believe, but you seemingly ignore the fact that very little of the bill has been implemented yet. people believe what they're told and they're told it won't work. the parts that have been implemented are very popular. and if you're actually right and it's a train wreck, why will it be impossible to remove? it should then be easy. What do you think that has yet to be implemented that people will like? Does it promise one free trip to Hawaii every year? The only thing people care about is cost and access to health care. Costs will rise and access will decrease. And quality will likely also decrease as fewer doctors remain/enter the field.
/dev/null Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 About 11M people will be able to purchase insurance thanks to Obamacare. For now. When premiums skyrocket...not so much. Costs will rise and access will decrease. And quality will likely also decrease as fewer doctors remain/enter the field. Welcome to The New Normal
Doc Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 Welcome to The New Normal Really. When you can't be good, just lower the standards.
/dev/null Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 Really. When you can't be good, just lower the standards. Forward!
birdog1960 Posted September 28, 2013 Posted September 28, 2013 About 11M people will be able to purchase insurance thanks to Obamacare. For now. When premiums skyrocket...not so much. And the $150 is your portion of the premium on an exchange? What do you think that has yet to be implemented that people will like? Does it promise one free trip to Hawaii every year? The only thing people care about is cost and access to health care. Costs will rise and access will decrease. And quality will likely also decrease as fewer doctors remain/enter the field. millions of working poor are going to love being able to get subsidized insurance. i know many already waiting for it. those newly enrolled in medicaid are going to be happy. early retirees or those who find themselves unemployed past middle age who will now be able to find an affordable policy will be happy (know many already waiting for this as well and some who are waiting for it to retire). those with preexisting conditions will be very happy. that's millions of folks. but again, what's the worry if opponents are so sure it will fail? should be easy to remove and will be a big pr and poltical win for the right. this should be viewed as opportunity in that case, right?
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