HankBulloughMellencamp Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 It helps that EJ comes from a winning tradition at a big-time college program, I'm sure. He's not used to losing games, and therefore expects to win. Compare and contrast the last several Bills' QBs. Fitz played at Harvard forcrissakes. Trentative got killed at Stanford and won very few games. Losman was at Tulane -- hardly big-time. There's no question EJ's time at FSU prepared him for the bright lights of the NFL, and it shows in his polish. Now he needs to keep getting comfortable with the offense and start showing off that big arm on more intermediate and deep routes. Excellent point about JP/Trentative/Fitz in terms of their lack of a winning college experience. You could probably lump RoJo in with them, as I don't believe USC was up too high near the top when he called signals for them. All of these guys could throw the ball quite well versus 'air' or a limited pass rush in practice, but none of them really effused the will to win (or ultimately inspired much of it in others). That's the "it" factor we all hope EJ has. What also helped EJ to this point is that he got very good coaching from his FSU HC and offensive taskmaster Jimbo Fisher every step of the way. And EJ came through in the clutch many times in big games, including 3 bowl victories. I do remember Buddy Nix summing EJ up by saying "This guy ... is a winner." (I do miss his southern drawl ... Chan's? not so much) I know we are all itching to anoint the next guy, but this winning experience does bode well for the Bills, especially after what we all witnessed in the last few minutes vs. Carolina. The guy looks cool as a cat back there.
BuffaloWings Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) The rest shouldn't be surprising, especially to Bills fans. When you're running the hurry up the whole game, running it with 2 minutes left is no big deal. Getting the plays in, people lined up, etc. It's what the team does in every series. This is the benefit of the no-huddle. You'll see many times when they have a quick 3-and-out and then see the disadvantage of the no-huddle. However, when you're used to getting to the line immediately after the play ends, the 2-minute drill just feels like nothing different. Winning games on 2-minute drives in the 4th quarter are the stuff of Joe Montana, John Elway, & Tom Brady (*shudder*). I'm not saying Manuel is any of those 3 HoF QBs, but when you win games like that, it only helps your confidence and your team's trust in you. What I like already is that they've had a crushing loss and an exhilarating, last-minute win. Both of those are character-builders. That said, let's just remember that we've only seen EJ in two whole games. We all like what we see, but given our recent history of Edwards & Fitz flaming out after great starts, let's temper our enthusiasm until we see more of this. Edited September 18, 2013 by BuffaloWings
Bleed Bills Blue Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 I like the way Marrone & Co. are easing EJ in. No crazy 50 throw days. Reminds me very much how the Steelers handled Ben in his first year. Run the ball, dump it off and play great defense. Good comparison, and thanks for the reminder. I find myself impatient sometimes and down on Hackett a bit; but I'm sure Marrone is in control and it's all part of the careful plan.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 You don't think Ryan Fitzpatrick went into the huddle in similar situations the last couple years and told the offense in the huddle, "lets be legendary and go right down the field no win this game" or "we are going right down the field and scoring and we're gonna win this game?" The sad thing is, everyone probably believed it or him. He even did it once or twice in 2011. I totally get your point but I think deep down, guys like Stevie knew Fitz was limited. When we had guys like Losman and Edwards, I believe they didn't command enough respect from their teammates. EJ has the physical and mental skills that Bills' QB has had since Kelly. Even the "experts" who weren't a fan of the pick said that after talking with Manuel, you understand why the Bills fell in love with him. The guy is a flat out leader and mature beyond his years. Obviously doesn't mean he will become a franchise QB, but we haven't had this type of guy under center in forever.
K-9 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 It helps that EJ comes from a winning tradition at a big-time college program, I'm sure. He's not used to losing games, and therefore expects to win. Compare and contrast the last several Bills' QBs. Fitz played at Harvard forcrissakes. Trentative got killed at Stanford and won very few games. Losman was at Tulane -- hardly big-time. There's no question EJ's time at FSU prepared him for the bright lights of the NFL, and it shows in his polish. Now he needs to keep getting comfortable with the offense and start showing off that big arm on more intermediate and deep routes. Good points all around here. And as his bowl record indicates, he rises to the challenge of big games as well. Parcells' formula for drafting a QB seems to be dead on with regard to EJ Manuel. GO BILLS!!!
eball Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 Eball, this is a VERY good point. That never occurred to me. About every thousand posts or so, I really hit on something.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 It helps that EJ comes from a winning tradition at a big-time college program, I'm sure. He's not used to losing games, and therefore expects to win. Compare and contrast the last several Bills' QBs. Fitz played at Harvard forcrissakes. Trentative got killed at Stanford and won very few games. Losman was at Tulane -- hardly big-time. There's no question EJ's time at FSU prepared him for the bright lights of the NFL, and it shows in his polish. Now he needs to keep getting comfortable with the offense and start showing off that big arm on more intermediate and deep routes. I agree with your overall point but let's dig deeper. There are plenty of guys that come from smaller schools that become legit NFL starters (Kaepernick, Romo, Flacco). The problem with a guy like Losman is he struggle to win and dominate Conference USA. Following a 3-1 start in the 2003 season, Tulane suffered multiple injuries that depleted its already thin depth on defense, and slumped to a 5-7 finish. Losman completed his collegiate career having completed 570 of 987 passes (57.7 percent) for 6,754 yards, 60 touchdowns, and 27 interceptions. He also ran for 241 yards, with 10 scores on 237 carries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._P._Losman Same thing with Trent. Stanford was terrible and he missed a ton of games. He looked like a 1st round pick but his production really never justified it. Fitz probably had the best career, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Fitzpatrick , and he had the best NFL career but he just was physically limited. In truth, it's insane that anyone got mad at Fitz because the guy completely exceed his physical talent. That's the thing that gives you the most hope with EJ. Great college record, good production against good competition, and still there feels like there is room for growth. Add to the fact this is the most talented offense since the Bledsoe days and a coach who made Ryan Nassib into a NFL QB (Nassib was a joke before Marrone). Hopefully, the sky is the limit. Good points all around here. And as his bowl record indicates, he rises to the challenge of big games as well. Parcells' formula for drafting a QB seems to be dead on with regard to EJ Manuel. GO BILLS!!! Except Parcells did draft Chad Henne.
Gordio Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 It helps that EJ comes from a winning tradition at a big-time college program, I'm sure. He's not used to losing games, and therefore expects to win. Compare and contrast the last several Bills' QBs. Fitz played at Harvard forcrissakes. Trentative got killed at Stanford and won very few games. Losman was at Tulane -- hardly big-time. There's no question EJ's time at FSU prepared him for the bright lights of the NFL, and it shows in his polish. Now he needs to keep getting comfortable with the offense and start showing off that big arm on more intermediate and deep routes. This is an excellent point. EJ is used to playing big games & in front of 80K + crowds from his days @ FSU. The situation does not seem to big for him. Compare to a guy like Losman who would cry to his girlfriend every night because he could not handle the pressure, or Edwards who never played a big game in his life in college because his teams were so rotten.
Wayne Cubed Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 In the words of Sean Connery: "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and !@#$ the prom queen."
K-9 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 I agree with your overall point but let's dig deeper. There are plenty of guys that come from smaller schools that become legit NFL starters (Kaepernick, Romo, Flacco). The problem with a guy like Losman is he struggle to win and dominate Conference USA. http://en.wikipedia....ki/J._P._Losman Same thing with Trent. Stanford was terrible and he missed a ton of games. He looked like a 1st round pick but his production really never justified it. Fitz probably had the best career, http://en.wikipedia....yan_Fitzpatrick , and he had the best NFL career but he just was physically limited. In truth, it's insane that anyone got mad at Fitz because the guy completely exceed his physical talent. That's the thing that gives you the most hope with EJ. Great college record, good production against good competition, and still there feels like there is room for growth. Add to the fact this is the most talented offense since the Bledsoe days and a coach who made Ryan Nassib into a NFL QB (Nassib was a joke before Marrone). Hopefully, the sky is the limit. Except Parcells did draft Chad Henne. HaHa! LOL! His formula was dead wrong on Henne, I guess. GO BILLS!!!
tennesseeboy Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 What I'm seeing in Manuel is a rookie who has come in and without a lot of flash and "me-isms" took charge of the offense and gained the confidence of the coaching staff and got everyone on the same page. Is it going to get us to the playoffs this year? I kind of doubt it...but it will mean some great football that the Bills haven't had in a long time. Seems the offense has bought into this guy. I have been saying six wins okay and eight wins a stretch. I'm starting to lean in the eight win direction.
BobChalmers Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) I totally get your point but I think deep down, guys like Stevie knew Fitz was limited. When we had guys like Losman and Edwards, I believe they didn't command enough respect from their teammates. EJ has the physical and mental skills that Bills' QB has had since Kelly. Even the "experts" who weren't a fan of the pick said that after talking with Manuel, you understand why the Bills fell in love with him. The guy is a flat out leader and mature beyond his years. Obviously doesn't mean he will become a franchise QB, but we haven't had this type of guy under center in forever. Losman and Edwards were also REALLY BADLY COACHED in Buffalo. Exposure to Jauron-Skeletor created a losing attitude - as was obvious from the sideline decisions. Compare and contrast Skeletor with what EJ is hearing from Hackett and Marrone... Fitz got decent coaching from Gailey but just didn't have the whole physical tool set to work with. Edited September 18, 2013 by BobChalmers
chris heff Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 You don't think Ryan Fitzpatrick went into the huddle in similar situations the last couple years and told the offense in the huddle, "lets be legendary and go right down the field no win this game" or "we are going right down the field and scoring and we're gonna win this game?" The sad thing is, everyone probably believed it or him. He even did it once or twice in 2011. What exactly is your point? That it is no big deal to try and rally your teammates? Everybody does it so why bother. What should he have done? Gone to his teammates and said "we're probably going to lose so let's get this over with".
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 Losman and Edwards were also REALLY BADLY COACHED in Buffalo. Exposure to Jauron-Skeletor created a losing attitude - as was obvious from the sideline decisions. Compare and contrast Skeletor with what EJ is hearing from Hackett and Marrone... Fitz got decent coaching from Gailey but just didn't have the whole physical tool set to work with. I disagree with this and I think it is excuse making. Tom Clements was the QB coach during the Losman/ Edwards. He is the offensive coordinator in GB. Did he suddenly learn to coach or does he now have better talent? Honestly, the fact the Bills were about to go 7-9/ 6-10 with Losman/ Edwards is a miracle. It also illustrates that the Bills' talent was never as bad some fans made it out to be. The Colts, constructed by the great Bill Polian, went 2-14 without Manning. I simply believe that Manuel is just an overall better all around talent than any QB we've had in forever. Maybe Marrone and company could have made Losman/ Edwards into a slightly better players but they simply weren't good enough to begin with.
San Jose Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2013 Author Posted September 18, 2013 And again, does anyone actually recall a camera shot of Fitz getting the offense together on the sidelines and pumping them up before the final possession of the game? It may have happened but I don't recall it. The very act of EJs demonstrative and public leadership is noteworthy in itself, success or failure notwithstanding.
Meatloaf Sandwich Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 that's what dogs do, they pee on everything they sniff IF, he outplays Smith this weekend, AND the Bills win, they will have to break their vows of silence, AND MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, admit they were "wwwwwwwrrrong." Kiper and them DON'T CARE if they are wrong now since they are already looking at next year's draft. Only TBD cares about what kiper said half a year ago.
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 Kiper and them DON'T CARE if they are wrong now since they are already looking at next year's draft. Only TBD cares about what kiper said half a year ago. Very good point. Kiper never gets held accountable. If he was an actual GM, he would have been fired years ago. He has an easier, stress free job than NFL GMs.
jimmy10 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 What I like already is that they've had a crushing loss and an exhilarating, last-minute win. Both of those are character-builders. What a great point. Much more so than being on either end of a ho-hum blowout.
atlbillsfan1975 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 It helps that EJ comes from a winning tradition at a big-time college program, I'm sure. He's not used to losing games, and therefore expects to win. Compare and contrast the last several Bills' QBs. Fitz played at Harvard forcrissakes. Trentative got killed at Stanford and won very few games. Losman was at Tulane -- hardly big-time. There's no question EJ's time at FSU prepared him for the bright lights of the NFL, and it shows in his polish. Now he needs to keep getting comfortable with the offense and start showing off that big arm on more intermediate and deep routes. Minnie Fans with Christian Ponder may disagree right now.
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