For those who have watched Manuel

[IronyAbounds]

Don't you think IF there was a QB the Bills were hugely excited about that would be available in 2014, that they WOULD HAVE passed on drafting a QB in 2013 and shored up another position of need with a potential impact player? Perhaps they just aren't that impressed by any of them, or did not see them as being appreciably better. No one was exactly forcing them to take a QB. They had (still have) big needs at WR, TE and the OL, plus LB on the defensive side. There isn't exactly an Andrew Luck-type prospect in 2014. They must have felt 2013 was as good a time as any. Then there is the highly unlikely theory being thrown about that they drafted one knowing they could blame Nix if it didn't work out in 2013, then just use another first rounder in 2014. Which do you think is more likely?

 

Neither. I think it was clear that Fitz was not the guy and they panicked. Plus, we can't dismiss the notion that Nix was never GM material so he just made a mistake. I don't think they wanted Nix as a fall guy. It is not unlikely that no one at One Bills Drive is all that bright. Let's face it, the organization has been hapless for a long long time.

[Orton's Arm]

 

 

 

Here are some statistics compiled by Football Outsiders, which show E.J. ranked 30th or below in basically each of the 4 statisitical categories they have.

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/QB

 

Good find. Manuel ranked between 30th - 34th in the four categories. Compare that to the rookie seasons of the following players:

Andy Dalton: 12th - 13th

Russell Wilson: 6th - 12th

Cam Newton: 13th - 16th

 

Anyone who has compared Manuel's rookie season to that of those other three players is just being silly. Manuel's rookie season more closely parallels Brandon Weeden's. As a rookie, Weeden ranked 29th - 34th in the four categories in question.

[YoloinOhio]

Good find. Manuel ranked between 30th - 34th in the four categories. Compare that to the rookie seasons of the following players:

Andy Dalton: 12th - 13th

Russell Wilson: 6th - 12th

Cam Newton: 13th - 16th

 

Anyone who has compared Manuel's rookie season to that of those other three players is just being silly. Manuel's rookie season more closely parallels Brandon Weeden's. As a rookie, Weeden ranked 29th - 34th in the four categories in question.

Are those rookie seasons you put up after their full seasons? Probably more accurate to compare EJ at the end of his.

[Orton's Arm]

Are those rookie seasons you put up after their full seasons? Probably more accurate to compare EJ at the end of his.

 

> Are those rookie seasons you put up after their full seasons?

 

Yes.

 

> Probably more accurate to compare EJ at the end of his.

 

Agreed. My post was partly inspired by a link earlier in this thread; in which some sports writer compared Manuel's rookie season to Dalton's and Wilson's. Thus far this year Manuel's numbers don't even come close to supporting such a comparison. There's a chance that that will change over the final six games of this season. I personally feel that unless Manuel turns into a whole new player--someone very different than the EJ Manuel who played in college--he's very unlikely to ever become a Dalton or a Russell Wilson. There are some who disagree with me; and we'll know who's right soon enough!

[K-9]

> Are those rookie seasons you put up after their full seasons?

 

Yes.

 

> Probably more accurate to compare EJ at the end of his.

 

Agreed. My post was partly inspired by a link earlier in this thread; in which some sports writer compared Manuel's rookie season to Dalton's and Wilson's. Thus far this year Manuel's numbers don't even come close to supporting such a comparison. There's a chance that that will change over the final six games of this season. I personally feel that unless Manuel turns into a whole new player--someone very different than the EJ Manuel who played in college--he's very unlikely to ever become a Dalton or a Russell Wilson. There are some who disagree with me; and we'll know who's right soon enough!

 

You sure do waste a lot of bandwidth on a QB you've already deemed a bust. Why bother? Are you trying to convince yourself or are you looking for converts?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[YoloinOhio]

> Are those rookie seasons you put up after their full seasons?

 

Yes.

 

> Probably more accurate to compare EJ at the end of his.

 

Agreed. My post was partly inspired by a link earlier in this thread; in which some sports writer compared Manuel's rookie season to Dalton's and Wilson's. Thus far this year Manuel's numbers don't even come close to supporting such a comparison. There's a chance that that will change over the final six games of this season. I personally feel that unless Manuel turns into a whole new player--someone very different than the EJ Manuel who played in college--he's very unlikely to ever become a Dalton or a Russell Wilson. There are some who disagree with me; and we'll know who's right soon enough!

I wouldn't compare his style to either one of those guys either. More like a Jake Locker/Blaine Gabbert type.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at the stupidity of judging a rookie QB who:

 

1) Played in only 2 preaseason games

 

2) Then played in 5 regular season games

 

3) Then missed 4 regular season games

 

4) Then returned to play against Pittsburgh and LeBeau in Pittsburgh.

 

I'm really surprised at how many of you are out of touch with reality.

[YoloinOhio]

I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at the stupidity of judging a rookie QB who:

 

1) Played in only 2 preaseason games

 

2) Then played in 5 regular season games

 

3) Then missed 4 regular season games

 

4) Then returned to play against Pittsburgh and LeBeau in Pittsburgh.

 

I'm really surprised at how many of you are out of touch with reality.

I am one of the few who has not judged him yet and actually really liked what I saw of him in the first 5 games, esp for a rookie. I think the disconnect is that based on all the reports of him at FSU/pre-draft, he was not quite NFL-ready because he isn't a natural passer and has footwork issues, etc. It has been discussed ad naseum, there is some other stuff too on the Tomahawk Nation but take it with a grain of salt since it is a fan site for the most part. I think the Bills intended him to sit behind Kolb, at least initially, as they worked him into the NFL and their system. They drafted him because he has everything you could want but was kind of a diamond in the rough. I think they thought their system would work with this flaws and that they could develop him. He outplayed Kolb in TC and the PS and then Kolb got hurt and he had to start, regardless. It may have been too soon, we'll see. But his development may not be immediate to that of some of the other guys who have come in and started at QB, and I include Geno in that because although he has other issues that aren't desirable he did come from a system that made him NFL ready and he is a natural passer. I completely agree with you... it may take a bit longer than what some fans are willing to live with, but the Bills knew it going in and are willing to live with it. This is what I think some fans are the most upset about, but they took the best QB prospect, in their opinion, in the draft because they needed one.

[seq004]

I would say unlike most of the other posters disappointing on many of his throws, short, intermediate, or long. I thought he played decent early on but for a rook no signs of greatness.

Edited November 17, 2013 by seq004

[Boatdrinks]

Neither. I think it was clear that Fitz was not the guy and they panicked. Plus, we can't dismiss the notion that Nix was never GM material so he just made a mistake. I don't think they wanted Nix as a fall guy. It is not unlikely that no one at One Bills Drive is all that bright. Let's face it, the organization has been hapless for a long long time.

That is even MORE unlikely. Even if Fitz was obviously not the guy, he was under contract and the Bills decided to release him. No need for "panic" as they could have just kept him as a stopgap until 2014 or as they groomed a younger replacement. They also had TJax under contract, and signed Kolb to replace Fitz on the roster.It's widely known that the 2013 draft was Whaley's, not Nix's. So Nix did not make a mistake. While the Bills have lost for many years and had some dubious Coaching/ GM hires in their past, this is no reflection on Whaley or Marrone. Both seem widely respected by their peer group and Whaley was viewed as on the way up by the Steelers organization, which is thought of as a well run franchise. Thinking that everyone at OBD are dunces has little basis in reality. It is an NFL franchise, I doubt they hold job fairs at the mall to fill high level poistions You clearly dislike the Manuel pick, but your theories of how it transpired sound juvenile and irrational. It's not like they took some division III product in the first round or something. They liked a certain player and you don't. It's no more complicated than that.

[Ramius]

Just for consideration: tomahawk nation has had it in for EJ almost his entire tenure here at FSU. Those guys have never liked him.

 

While some of their critcisms are valid, they are coming from a biased, extremely negative point of view.

[Boatdrinks]

Are those rookie seasons you put up after their full seasons? Probably more accurate to compare EJ at the end of his.

 

This would require being measured, rational, and patient enough for a comparable number of starts to be amassed before reaching any conclusions. These traits are uncommon on TSW. Even after one season it would not mean that because player A had superior stats to player B in his rookie season, his career will therefore be better than player B's at its end. Most players are given more than one season before a team makes any decision on them, and that will likely be the case here.

[IronyAbounds]

That is even MORE unlikely. Even if Fitz was obviously not the guy, he was under contract and the Bills decided to release him. No need for "panic" as they could have just kept him as a stopgap until 2014 or as they groomed a younger replacement. They also had TJax under contract, and signed Kolb to replace Fitz on the roster.It's widely known that the 2013 draft was Whaley's, not Nix's. So Nix did not make a mistake. While the Bills have lost for many years and had some dubious Coaching/ GM hires in their past, this is no reflection on Whaley or Marrone. Both seem widely respected by their peer group and Whaley was viewed as on the way up by the Steelers organization, which is thought of as a well run franchise. Thinking that everyone at OBD are dunces has little basis in reality. It is an NFL franchise, I doubt they hold job fairs at the mall to fill high level poistions You clearly dislike the Manuel pick, but your theories of how it transpired sound juvenile and irrational. It's not like they took some division III product in the first round or something. They liked a certain player and you don't. It's no more complicated than that.

If your franchise doesn't go to the playoffs for 14 straight seasons, and you have one winning season in those 14 years, comparatively speaking your organization is full of dunces. There is no way a well run franchise has those kind of results (and the evidence you cite, the releases of Fitz and Jackson and the signing of Kolb only bolsters the case that OBD is full of people not capable of making NFL quality decisions. Moreover, suggesting that EJ shouldn't have been picked is the first round is hardly the same as saying he was some D-III product. Suggesting that I said that or even implied that is, in your words, juvenile and irrational, not to mention just plain stupid. I still hope EJ turns out well, but nothing I have read or seen to date indicates that EJ has demonstrated that he will be a star in the NFL.

[Boatdrinks]

If your franchise doesn't go to the playoffs for 14 straight seasons, and you have one winning season in those 14 years, comparatively speaking your organization is full of dunces. There is no way a well run franchise has those kind of results (and the evidence you cite, the releases of Fitz and Jackson and the signing of Kolb only bolsters the case that OBD is full of people not capable of making NFL quality decisions. Moreover, suggesting that EJ shouldn't have been picked is the first round is hardly the same as saying he was some D-III product. Suggesting that I said that or even implied that is, in your words, juvenile and irrational, not to mention just plain stupid. I still hope EJ turns out well, but nothing I have read or seen to date indicates that EJ has demonstrated that he will be a star in the NFL.

 

While no one would say the Bills have been a well run franchise in recent times, they have made changes and are trying to right the ship. Show me where I suggest that YOU said anything about EJM being a division III product? That was MY OWN example, chosen to demonstrate that it was NOT CRAZY that they selected him where they did, regardless of your opinion on what an acceptable draft slot for EJM was. Call it hyperbole, used to make a point.Given their need at the position, and perhaps their opinion on future prospects as well, they made the pick. I suggest you work on your reading comprehension before calling other posters "stupid". Your response is even more irrational than your opinion on the intelligence level of highly paid execs in the NFL. You may have a difference of opinion with their choices, but it does not make them idiots.

[KikO M G]

Manuel's stats through 6 games are comparable to Russell Wilson's. This is notable because I am quite certain the organization was hoping he would be a Russell Wilson type when they drafted him early. Remember, no one thought the Seahawks got a steal immediately when they drafted him in the 3rd round. So the Bills did their homework and took a calculated risk that they could get that value from EJ and wanted to make sure they got him.

 

So obviously Manuel will need to improve in order to keep pace with Wilson, but we can't just decide that he won't do that until he has a chance to play the games.

Edited November 17, 2013 by KikO M G

[Saint Doug]

I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at the stupidity of judging a rookie QB who:

 

1) Played in only 2 preaseason games

 

2) Then played in 5 regular season games

 

3) Then missed 4 regular season games

 

4) Then returned to play against Pittsburgh and LeBeau in Pittsburgh.

 

I'm really surprised at how many of you are out of touch with reality.

 

Are you out of touch with Manuel's entire body of work as a college QB? His (lack of) NFL development is paralleling his (lack of) development as a college QB exactly, except for him being injury-prone, which is new.

 

Besides, his limited body of work as a NFL QB doesn't really change his potential for being a great NFL QB, which significant doubts existed even before he took a NFL snap. That's faulty logic. And, just because he was drafted by the Bills in the 1st round doesn't mean we should give him the benefit of the doubt. In fact, in this regard, he should be guilty until proven otherwise.

 

Manuel's stats through 6 games are comparable to Russell Wilson's. This is notable because I am quite certain the organization was hoping he would be a Russell Wilson type when they drafted him early.

 

The main difference between these two is that as college QBs, EJ couldn't even hold Wilson's jock. Wilson was a great college QB (unlike EJ), who's prospects were likely hurt by him being short, and I hate to say it, but probably also by the color of his skin. As physical specimens, Wilson was no Newton.

[San-O]

Track the game via NFL.com. Let's see what is going on via the stats before any gar'bage time happens.

[Gerry]

EJ had an opportunity to make a statement against a declining Steelers team last week, and he fell flat on his face with the rest of the team. He has another opportunity today against the Jets at home-will he take advantage of it? He needs to step up his performance for the rest of the season starting today. Let's see what he does.

[macaroni]

I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at the stupidity of judging a rookie QB who:

 

1) Played in only 2 preaseason games

 

2) Then played in 5 regular season games

 

3) Then missed 4 regular season games

 

4) Then returned to play against Pittsburgh and LeBeau in Pittsburgh.

 

I'm really surprised at how many of you are out of touch with reality.

....... sooooooo, do you have an opinion on Lewis and Tuel?????

[chris heff]

 

 

Are you out of touch with Manuel's entire body of work as a college QB? His (lack of) NFL development is paralleling his (lack of) development as a college QB exactly, except for him being injury-prone, which is new.

 

Besides, his limited body of work as a NFL QB doesn't really change his potential for being a great NFL QB, which significant doubts existed even before he took a NFL snap. That's faulty logic. And, just because he was drafted by the Bills in the 1st round doesn't mean we should give him the benefit of the doubt. In fact, in this regard, he should be guilty until proven otherwise.

 

 

 

The main difference between these two is that as college QBs, EJ couldn't even hold Wilson's jock. Wilson was a great college QB (unlike EJ), who's prospects were likely hurt by him being short, and I hate to say it, but probably also by the color of his skin. As physical specimens, Wilson was no Newton.

 

Before you wright things use Google.

 

EJ Manuel at FSU,

 

"Manuel led the Seminoles to a 12-win season for just the third time in program history and the first time since their dominant stretch in the 1990s. During his senior season, he threw for the second most yards in team history with 3,392, trailing only Chris Weinke's Heisman Trophy winning season, in which Weinke threw for 4,167 yards. Manuel went 25-6 as a starter, won the first BCS bowl for Florida State since 2000, won five out of six games against intrastate rivals Miami and Florida, and he also led the offense to its most prolific season in team history, cleanly surpassing the 1999 National Championship squad with 6,591 yards."

 

Four bowl game wins., 47 TDs, 29 INTs for a rating of 150.4. Boy he stunk!