EJ's first two games in comparison to other recent rookie QB's

[GG]

I'm trying to put EJ's outings in context of other Bills' youngster QBs, and so far it looks promising.

 

I think that comparing him to JP is probably the most apt, as both came in with raw athletic talent and expectations that it would take them a little time to learn thew pro game. So far based on two outings, I'd say that EJ is already light years ahead of JP and hope that the learning curve continues on this path.

 

Both QBs struggled a bit in their openers, JP won, EJ didn't - but JP played against a worse opponent and needed a lot of help from his teammates. T

 

The bounceback in the second game is even more important. JP just couldn't get over the hump against an average Tampa team and then failed to capitalize on many opportunities against Atlanta in week 3. Each of those games had an "almost" feel to it to entice positive feelings about the team's future, but JP never rose to the occasion despite having a pretty good team around him. And the rest, as they say is history.

 

I think that the major difference between EJ and the past (granted with a very small body of work) is that he has the ability to lead a drive when it's really needed. There are still warts in his game, but there's also a lot about his future to be very optimistic about. The Jets game is the next test in a hostile environment.

[Charles Romes]

Watch for Rex to be sitting on all the check downs this week.

[8-8 Forever?]

Thought I would do a quick breakdown of Manuel's first 2 games and see how they compared to other recent young QB's:

 

 

Griffin: 39 for 55(70.9%) for 526 yards, 3 TDs 1 INT, Rating 111.63

Kaepernick(first full 2 starts): 32 for 48(66.7%) for 474 Yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, Rating 110.94

Manuel: 45 for 66(68.2%) for 446 yards, 3 TDs 1 INT, Rating 95.89

Wilson: 33 for 54(61.1%) for 304 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, Rating 81.1

Dalton: 44 for 73(60.3%) for 489 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INT, Rating 77.94

Luck: 43 for 76(56.6%) for 533 yards, 3 TDs 3 INT, Rating 75.16

Tannehill: 38 for 66(57.6%) for 419 yards, 1 TD, 3 INT, Rating 62.63

Geno: 39 for 73(53.4%) for 470 yards, 1 TD, 4 INT, Rating 55.17

 

 

 

Just for those saying what he has done isn't that impressive, I disagree. Better rating in first two starts than anyone other than Griffin or Kaepernick, and Kaepernick was a 2nd year player, not starting until almost halfway through his 2nd season, so its a little different than a true rookie.

 

What I like about him is he just seems inflappable. Calm, cool, never panics no matter how bad things are going. He could have imploded after those two turnovers on back to back series, but he didn't, then came back and drove them down the field with no timeouts to win the game. Not sure what else we could want from a rookie QB who still has a lot to learn and is doing it on the fly. Oh yeah, he played a couple of pretty good defenses BTW. I know New England has been maligned for a while but the past year and this year their D is pretty solid.

wow, RGIII and Kap tore it up. Those guys are good. The league needs RGIII to make it all the way back. I live in the D.C. area, and that kid is electric when not dragging a 50lb knee brace around. EJ will keep getting better if the team stays healthy.

Edited September 16, 2013 by 8and8Forever

[Big Turk]

 

wow, RGIII and Kap tore it up. Those guys are good. The league needs RGIII to make it all the way back. I live in the D.C. area, and that kid is electric when not dragging a 50lb knee brace around. EJ will keep getting better if the team stays healthy.

 

To be fair Kap was 24+ games into his career when he started his first two games...

 

[K-9]

Watch for Rex to be sitting on all the check downs this week.

 

I hope so.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Reed83HOF]

Stats don't show everything. EJ was having a rough game he really needs to work on his accuracy, even on short throws. If it wasn't for the pass catchers the last couple weeks making some good catches; his stats wouldn't be where they are. It is valid to say this at this point in his career; accuracy is something he needs to work on...

 

That being said, these are his first 2 NFL starts and his first 2 NFL games. He also missed 3 weeks of camp and a couple PS games and practices. The game against NE he got a "pass" from me. His first game after being injured and against NE; some rustiness is ok and to be expected. Yesterday he doesn't get as much of a "pass"; in fact each week it goes down. I do expect a crap game or 2 from him this season as he is a rookie. Each week though I do expect to see some progress and growth. He was able to lead us back with 1:38 and with no TOs; we won the game. That is encouraging. It was also encouraging too see him have presence in the pocket and to shake off his INT and fumble.

 

We are all Bills fans and are all excited and are pulling for EJ to succeed where too many before him have failed. It is ok to point out the parts of his game he needs to work on. Stats don't tell the entire story. If we had lost yesterday, would any of your opinions have changed? The miss to Chandler in the first quarter and his errant passes would be being discussed more.....

 

Disclaimer - I am an EJ fan....

Edited September 17, 2013 by reed83 4th Rounder

[Ralonzo]

He's going to have some bad throws.. bad series.. even bad games. He's even going to throw the game ending interception.

 

Two games in a row of not throwing a game ending interception puts him ahead of Fitz already...

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I wasn't able to watch the game because I live out of town. I also watched the post-game presser from Coach Marrone and he eluded to the same thing...

 

As a gentle admonishment to a good poster, you should always withhold from any opinionating until you actually watch the game.

 

It's an important ethic.

 

You didn't see any of the numerous good/great plays EJ made that would counterbalance bad plays he had.

 

Almost without exception the people criticizing him here only mention the last minute drive as a positive and otherwise completely ignore the numerous great throws and plays that EJ made that Fitz couldn't even make in his dreams.

 

Hell, I can't even remember the last QB who could make a perfect throw like EJ did to Robert Woods on the 2-point conversion with a pass rusher directly in his face. I don't believe I've seen even one mention of that throw on this forum.

 

Ditto with the scramble just before the game-winning TD pass, when EJ escaped the sack and punished the tackler while stopping the clock at the 2-yard line.

 

The people here who are underwhelmed with EJ's performance are not talking about his laser shot to Stevie over the middle or the numerous other plays he made that we haven't seen from a Bills QB in many years.

 

Watch for Rex to be sitting on all the check downs this week.

 

I'm guessing that after a full preseason and camp of facing Pettine's defense that it'll be hard for the Jets to stymie EJ.

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

I'm trying to put EJ's outings in context of other Bills' youngster QBs, and so far it looks promising.

 

I think that comparing him to JP is probably the most apt, as both came in with raw athletic talent and expectations that it would take them a little time to learn thew pro game. So far based on two outings, I'd say that EJ is already light years ahead of JP and hope that the learning curve continues on this path.

 

Both QBs struggled a bit in their openers, JP won, EJ didn't - but JP played against a worse opponent and needed a lot of help from his teammates. T

 

The bounceback in the second game is even more important. JP just couldn't get over the hump against an average Tampa team and then failed to capitalize on many opportunities against Atlanta in week 3. Each of those games had an "almost" feel to it to entice positive feelings about the team's future, but JP never rose to the occasion despite having a pretty good team around him. And the rest, as they say is history.

 

I think that the major difference between EJ and the past (granted with a very small body of work) is that he has the ability to lead a drive when it's really needed. There are still warts in his game, but there's also a lot about his future to be very optimistic about. The Jets game is the next test in a hostile environment.

Please don't compare ej to jp. It makes me feel kind of nautious.

[Reed83HOF]

You didn't see any of the numerous good/great plays EJ made that would counterbalance bad plays he had.

 

Almost without exception the people criticizing him here only mention the last minute drive as a positive and otherwise completely ignore the numerous great throws and plays that EJ made that Fitz couldn't even make in his dreams.

 

Hell, I can't even remember the last QB who could make a perfect throw like EJ did to Robert Woods on the 2-point conversion with a pass rusher directly in his face. I don't believe I've seen even one mention of that throw on this forum.

 

Ditto with the scramble just before the game-winning TD pass, when EJ escaped the sack and punished the tackler while stopping the clock at the 2-yard line.

 

The people here who are underwhelmed with EJ's performance are not talking about his laser shot to Stevie over the middle or the numerous other plays he made that we haven't seen from a Bills QB in many years.

 

SJ

 

You are correct the 2 yard conversion was a great throw and you bring up great points that he is the best QB we have had in... well; most likely since Kelly. As I think about it...that really doesn't say much for this franchise...

 

My posts regarding EJ is that we can't just be blinded by our hopes for him (based off of our crap QB play since JK) and to ignore or dismiss some of his areas for improvements. Stats only tell one side of the story. Watching the game - he did well in some areas but has some areas he needs to work on.

 

These comments more or less mirror what I am concerned (not a great choice of a word but is all I can think of right now) about:

 

From SJ's comments in the locker room today:

 

Q: The receivers looked like you guys were winning a lot of routes. Is that what you were seeing?

A: Yeah that’s how I see it. We haven’t seen the film of the past game, probably have another hour or so until we check that out and then move on to the Jets, but yeah I felt like our receivers were open the majority of the time. That’s why I feel like we can be a very dominant offense. We’ve got that talent in the receiving room and that’s only the receivers.

 

From Eric Wood:

 

Q: I know that tempo is a process, after two games, where do you feel you are in that arc of where you want to get the tempo to be?

A: We’ve obviously got to get better early in games. We’ve shown we get better as the game goes on. I don’t know if that’s our tempo wearing on the defense, us getting more comfortable or what, but we’ve got to start the game better. We know that and that will be a premium coming up. We’re doing some things well, but when I watch the tape all I think is we still have a lot of potential. We’re leaving a lot of plays out there. All 11 guys could be playing a little bit better and like I said, there’s so many plays out there that we’re not making right now that we should be scoring a lot more points.

 

From Robert Woods:

 

Q: Where do you think your relationship with EJ in the passing game can go from here?

A: Just be more consistent I would say. We always have a slow start, I feel like if we start off early and play well we can go a long way.

 

From FJ:

 

Q: How was EJ’s (Manuel) demeanor as he led the team down the field in the two-minute drill?

A: He knew what he wanted to get done. He was poised. He did what he had to do to move us down the field. Took whatever the defense was giving him and made throws and did whatever we needed to win that game. That’s all we can ask for. He got the calls out to the field, got everybody lined up, knew where everybody was supposed to be and he made the throws to win a football game for us.

 

We have left a lot of points out there. I think by design EJ is being coached to go through his progressions and not to force the ball. Taking what the D gives us is what we have been doing for what seems like forever now. I get that we are doing it to ease EJ along and not put him in a position to kill his drive and morale and put too much on him. At some point he is going to take what he wants from the D. In order for him to be successful with that, he has to become less erratic on some of his passes. He sure as hell can make some great throws and has all the arm strength in the world. He also has a calm, cool demeanor and the players are following him. Like I have said before the intangibles are there; the stuff you can't teach. This is great for us. Each week I just want to see him get better; he has to improve his accuracy and become less erratic with his throws...I am not looking for counterbalance; I just want to see growth and he needs to get better with that. JP had a hell of an arm too but was terribly erratic....

[San Jose Bills Fan]

^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

 

You'll see that I've never invoked statistics when arguing that EJ played well.

 

You'll also see that I've never said that he won't get better.

 

It just amazes me that people can say stupid things like "he played poorly for 58 minutes" when completely ignoring the context that this is a rookie playing in his 2nd regular season game and moreover, a rookie who missed half the preseason with an injury.

 

Anyone who would compare EJ's performance to that of an established NFL quarterback when he's only played two regular season games in his career is a moron.

[Reed83HOF]

^^^^^^^^^^^

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

 

You'll see that I've never invoked statistics when arguing that EJ played well.

 

You'll also see that I've never said that he won't get better.

 

It just amazes me that people can say stupid things like "he played poorly for 58 minutes" when completely ignoring the context that this is a rookie playing in his 2nd regular season game and moreover, a rookie who missed half the preseason with an injury.

 

Anyone who would compare EJ's performance to that of an established NFL quarterback when he's only played two regular season games in his career is a moron.

 

You are one of my favorite posters on here. I only have a few. After our game I was watching the Manning bowl; damn Peyton is friggin awesome Eli isn't have bad either. I would love for EJ to turn out like that. He isn't even close to being on the same level. It also makes me realize how far this team has to go

 

You are entirely correct with the point of EJ playing "poorly for 58 minutes", He wasn't playing poorly; wasn't setting the world on fire either. He was a rookie in his second game ever. He had some great passes as well...

 

The only reason I brought stats up is that the ones who say he played damn well and they will take it, point to the stats, which on themselves look pretty good. Kelly the Dog explained that fairly well in a few posts. You have to take it all in context.

 

Here is an excerpt from Marrone last night. It sums it up well:

 

Marrone was asked about Manuel's resilience.

 

"Yeah, he keeps telling me, and it gets me upset, he keeps telling me, 'I'm all right,' " Marrone said. "He's asking me, like, he's turning around on me that I'm not all right. I'm all right. I've got the control. I'm making sure he's all right."

 

"If he's all right, then why is he making these decisions?"

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Thanks very much. I really appreciate it.

 

EJ's a very talented player and I think the sky's the limit for him.

 

I think he's only scratching the surface and the fact that he can play so well so early on is very exciting.

 

I could be wrong but I think he'll become an elite quarterback.

 

I'm just holding my breath as to when he might have "one of those games" that all rookies have.

[Big Turk]

You are one of my favorite posters on here. I only have a few. After our game I was watching the Manning bowl; damn Peyton is friggin awesome Eli isn't have bad either. I would love for EJ to turn out like that. He isn't even close to being on the same level. It also makes me realize how far this team has to go

 

You are entirely correct with the point of EJ playing "poorly for 58 minutes", He wasn't playing poorly; wasn't setting the world on fire either. He was a rookie in his second game ever. He had some great passes as well...

 

The only reason I brought stats up is that the ones who say he played damn well and they will take it, point to the stats, which on themselves look pretty good. Kelly the Dog explained that fairly well in a few posts. You have to take it all in context.

 

Here is an excerpt from Marrone last night. It sums it up well:

 

Marrone was asked about Manuel's resilience.

 

"Yeah, he keeps telling me, and it gets me upset, he keeps telling me, 'I'm all right,' " Marrone said. "He's asking me, like, he's turning around on me that I'm not all right. I'm all right. I've got the control. I'm making sure he's all right."

 

"If he's all right, then why is he making these decisions?"

 

I love Marrone...he sounds like the type of coach that players will go through a wall for and a coach they really believe in. Can't wait to see how far this train can take us...

[ganesh]

I love Marrone...he sounds like the type of coach that players will go through a wall for and a coach they really believe in. Can't wait to see how far this train can take us...

 

+1. And it was good to see Marrone show his softer side when he broke down discussing the demise of one of his best friend. I think players respect and will play hard for such a coach.