The Affordable Care Act is Coming Home to Roost

[boyst]

Juan. You're not getting it. You said something. they are asking you to back up what you said. They called you out. You can't back yourself up. So back yourself out.

 

If you say something you need to be able to stand behind it.

[DC Tom]

WTF is your definition of a mandate? Losing the House and barely holding onto both the Senate and the White House hardly fits the description.

 

Comes from the same dictionary as his definition of "efficient."

[OCinBuffalo]

I know the polls measure Obamacare as unpopular, part of that is the terrible roll out of the program, and part of that is the negative emphasis the republican's place on it. But I think when you ask American's about individual pieces of the law e.g., should insurers be dis-allowed from denying insurance based pre-existing conditions? you find general support for a lot of ACA principles

 

I'm of a mind the the polls will change once people see that the law is helpful and the tea party hyperbole is shown to hot air, Obama won the election that was the most important feedback the american people gave, he won a mandate. Sure if you want to repeal the law by all means do it through the elecoral process, elect a president promising to repeal obamacare, elect senators and congressman who will get rid of it etc. But you can't just go ripping up legislation because polls about a program that hasn't even been fully implemented show xx per cent of people are against it etc.

This per-supposes that people can't think for themselves, or can't judge for themselves. This like having 2 friends argue, come to you for a decision, but, one of them says you're too dumb to make that decision, and too easily influenced by the other guy

 

You have, never bought into such nonsense, just like the American people have never bought the BS that it is the Republicans that are keeping Obamacare from working. No. The American people have passed their judgement on Obamacare, soundly, since the day it was passed.

 

WTF are you talking about? We did elect someone: Scott Brown, an R, in a massively blue state, Massachusetts, for the specific reason of being the Obamacare blocking vote. That was Democrats doing that. I say again, Scott Brown required 55% min of Mass Democrats to vote for him, and they did.

 

Then what happened? They scumbags bastardized the Senate rules and used an obscure vehicle to slide this thing by during Christmas. Yeah, why do that...if this law is so great, is such a "great achievement", can stand on it's own, or whatever other empty wish you'd like to attach?

 

You want to make predictions? Predict for me what it will take for Mass. to elect another Republican to anything, and tell me when that is going to happen again.

 

You don't think anything. That's become obvious.

 

You wish. You wish what you were saying was true. There's as much evidence for it becoming true, as there was that Obamacare was a sound program based on sound business principles and sound economics three years ago. In other words: none.

 

You wish Obama won a mandate, when the statistical evidence and virtually every exit poll said: no. He won a crap, negative campaign, largely by disqualifying his opponent. Nobody voted for Obama's agenda, or Obama himself, because he didn't run on those things. If they had, then don't you think he'd be able to win on Gun Control? He got destroyed, and he cashed in most of his chips on that.

 

That alone destroys your ignorant, or wishful, take your pick, "Mandate" argument. There never was a mandate...it only exists as one of your wishes-->delusions.

 

What is it going to take for you to realize that the polls on Obamacare have been flat, and negative, for years? What's it going to take for you to accept that straightforward and consistent measure?

 

You wont, and why? Because yet again: you think you can wish it away.

 

You wish that someday, somebody would agree with you...yet nobody produces the results, nor did they design a plan, that allows a reasonable, informed person to agree with you.

Edited December 19, 2013 by OCinBuffalo

[B-Large]

I know the polls measure Obamacare as unpopular, part of that is the terrible roll out of the program, and part of that is the negative emphasis the republican's place on it. But I think when you ask American's about individual pieces of the law e.g., should insurers be dis-allowed from denying insurance based pre-existing conditions? you find general support for a lot of ACA principles

 

I'm of a mind the the polls will change once people see that the law is helpful and the tea party hyperbole is shown to hot air, Obama won the election that was the most important feedback the american people gave, he won a mandate. Sure if you want to repeal the law by all means do it through the elecoral process, elect a president promising to repeal obamacare, elect senators and congressman who will get rid of it etc. But you can't just go ripping up legislation because polls about a program that hasn't even been fully implemented show xx per cent of people are against it etc.

 

a few thoughts:

 

1. roughly 50% of Americasn will hate the ACA, even if they have little understanding of what it does, what is changes or how it positvely/negaitvely affects them- we're in a hyperpatisan environment, I am not sure I expected anything less- it does make The Five fun to watch though, they love to bash the ACA and sure do having the talking points nailed down like a well built deck.

2. Most of Democratic voting friends dislike the ACA very much. They also don't tend to know anything about it, at least the details, they see it as a gift to insurance companines. They typically cite a move to Single Payors and steamling the convoluted, twisted mess we have now would have been a much better option, I agree, but they are usually unaware that it was Democratic Elelcted Officials that made that mission impossible.

3. My place personally is better because of the ACA, and while I prefer single payor, I work the compromise.

4. All Reforms for the Healthcare system are essentially the same. Private Insurance, Deductibles, HSA's... same reforms to policies and bad insurance pratices, and the same crap would have happened it were a GOP plan that passed, only MSNBC would be melting down and tearing down the law. I just imagine sometimes if George Bush signed the ACA... Democrats would be popping their lids. R's would be celebrating the miraculous nature of the free market, and I would feel just about the same.

[IDBillzFan]

Democrats would be popping their lids. R's would be celebrating the miraculous nature of the free market, and I would feel just about the same.

 

No true conservative Republican would ever get behind a federal law that forces an American to purchase something against their will simply because they exist in this country. Establishment Republicans like John McCain or Lindsey Graham? Yes. But the Ted Cruz and Rand Pauls? No way in hell.

 

It's a bad law that does more damage than it will ever do good. Sadly for folks like yourself, the Democrats own it. All of them...blue dog and progressive alike. They all own it.

Edited December 19, 2013 by LABillzFan

[B-Man]

ObamaCare May Devastate the Real Estate and Travel Industries.

 

“Americans are among the most mobile people on earth, but ObamaCare may soon start freezing them in place. Millions are losing their health insurance policies and being forced onto the ObamaCare exchanges, where most plans only provide local medical coverage.”

 

 

 

 

 

Medical Experts Tell Congress about the Obamacare ‘Damage’ to Come.

 

“One neurologist said that in return for ordering necessary scans, ‘CMS and insurance companies are going to post negative grades in my name.’”

 

 

 

 

 

More Obamacare Delays. Surprised?

 

 

 

.

[DC Tom]

Medical Experts Tell Congress about the Obamacare ‘Damage’ to Come.

 

Dr. Patricia McLaughlin, an ophthalmologist based in New York City, said insurers are introducing limited networks and announcing new plans that will offer only in-network benefits, excluding all out-of-network doctors.

She noted the problem of limited networks is that many health plans have substantially reduced or eliminated previous coverage options that allowed patients to see the doctor of their choice.

So basically, instead of the government reducing health care costs by limiting access to health care resources, they're passing the responsibility for rationing care access to the insurers.

Yeah, that's going to work out really well. Great law.

[4merper4mer]

 

 

[/size][/font][/color]

So basically, instead of the government reducing health care costs by limiting access to health care resources, they're passing the responsibility for rationing care access to the insurers.

Yeah, that's going to work out really well. Great law.

 

It is beyond great. It is perfect. The government can then blame the insurers and take over their business. The next step would be to make all doctors federal employees to reduce costs and then hire the best and brightest to be doctors thus improving care. We are merely in the bumpy startup phase. The rest of the plan will go smoothly Shirley.

[3rdnlng]

[/size][/font][/color]

 

So basically, instead of the government reducing health care costs by limiting access to health care resources, they're passing the responsibility for rationing care access to the insurers.

Yeah, that's going to work out really well. Great law.

 

This is hard to fathom. As a veteran, I now use the VA for my medical care. When I became someone that was paid on a 1099 basis I signed up for VA medical benefits about 25 years ago. I still paid for private insurance until 2010. I had thought that the VA was inferior care. I have since found out differently, but that's not my point. I received a letter from the VA recently telling me that no matter where I'm at if I feel that I need medical attention to go to the nearest hospital. My only obligation is to inform them within a few days that I'm there and they will decide whether or not I need to be transferred to a VA hospital, or they want my care to be handled by that hospital. My point is that they are encouraging me to seek help "out of network" if I feel it is necessary, while denying the rest of you that option (as far as payment goes). Gotta love the thought that was put into the ACA.

[Nanker]

Parts of the invasion of Iraq and response to Katrina were good, too...

Don't forget about the Challenger and Columbia space shuttles!

Parts of those missions were fantastic! The entire result... not so much.

[B-Man]

Obama administration relaxes rules of health-care law four days before deadline

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/obama-administration-relaxes-rules-of-health-care-law-four-days-before-deadline/2013/12/19/81bc3132-690b-11e3-8b5b-a77187b716a3_story.html

 

 

Last night, after you thought you'd figured it out the king tapped his scepter and "poof" things changed.

 

 

The cracks in the "Mandate" widen..........

[Nanker]

Obama administration relaxes rules of health-care law four days before deadline

 

http://www.washingto...16a3_story.html

 

 

Last night, after you thought you'd figured it out the king tapped his scepter and "poof" things changed.

 

 

The cracks in the "Mandate" widen..........

 

Now how's that "fair" Obama, to the dozens and dozens of people that might have actually signed up for Obamacare because they thought they HAD to? Now you've issued a proclamation that what the law and you said just isn't so? I can't understand it. You seemed so sincere and resolute in your prosecuting this law... YOUR law on the American people.

 

Why, it's almost like we can't believe a word you say.

[B-Man]

Who Says Obama Hasn’t United the Country?

 

Yesterday the Obama administration suddenly moved to allow hundreds of thousands of people who’ve lost their insurance due to Obamacare to sign up for bare-bone “catastrophic” plans. It’s at least the 14th unilateral change to Obamacare that’s been made without consulting Congress.

 

“It shows that the Obamacare insurance products aren’t selling so, at the last minute, the administration is holding a fire sale on a failed launch,” says Grace-Marie Turner of the Galen Institute, a health-care advocacy group. “Just think how you must feel if you were one of the people who spent the last two months fighting their way through HealthCare.gov to buy a policy that will be thousands of dollars more expensive than this catastrophic insurance!”

 

Of course, like every other exemption from Obamacare the latest fix is supposed to last only a year, raising the prospect that people will be kicked off their catastrophic coverage as soon as the 2014 election is safely in the political rear-view mirror.

 

The fact that no one really knows just how Obamacare is doing (the administration is hiding the numbers) or where it’s going (it’s like an impressionistic painting in progress) may explain the public consensus that’s developed behind delaying its implementation.

[B-Large]

ObamaCare May Devastate the Real Estate and Travel Industries.

 

“Americans are among the most mobile people on earth, but ObamaCare may soon start freezing them in place. Millions are losing their health insurance policies and being forced onto the ObamaCare exchanges, where most plans only provide local medical coverage.”

 

 

 

 

 

Medical Experts Tell Congress about the Obamacare ‘Damage’ to Come.

 

“One neurologist said that in return for ordering necessary scans, ‘CMS and insurance companies are going to post negative grades in my name.’”

 

 

 

 

 

More Obamacare Delays. Surprised?

 

 

 

.

 

Plans before the ACA didn't typically pay for routine care other than the State you resided in and in your local network of providers- now for some PPO plans that might have been different, but that didn't really cause people not to move or travel. All plans tended to Emergency Care with the United States. But if you travel, you buy insurance for care in other countries, or at least I always have.

 

Not having a National System is what sucks. Next Year I will likely be spending a year in Maine, but maintaining permanent residence in Colorado. So where do I buy my insurace plan, Colorado or Maine? Because my place of Residence is in Colorado, I will probably have to buy in Colorado- which means I don't have coverage outside of Emergency Care in the State of Maine... Single Payor would be so much easier in this repect.

 

No true conservative Republican would ever get behind a federal law that forces an American to purchase something against their will simply because they exist in this country. Establishment Republicans like John McCain or Lindsey Graham? Yes. But the Ted Cruz and Rand Pauls? No way in hell.

 

It's a bad law that does more damage than it will ever do good. Sadly for folks like yourself, the Democrats own it. All of them...blue dog and progressive alike. They all own it.

 

Would a true conservative skip buying coverage for the family, and then show up for care on other people's dime if their kids got sick, or would they stick to their guns and if they didn't have the ablity to pay and couldn't find charity, let their kid potentially die?

[IDBillzFan]

Why, it's almost like we can't believe a word you say.

Never mind the king changing the law from on high. All is well. He has complete control of the situation.

 

Hey, did you hear about the Duck Dynasty guy!

 

http://youtu.be/SSUXXzN26zg

Edited December 20, 2013 by LABillzFan

[Keukasmallies]

Curiouser and curiouser...neighborhood organizer, senator, president, insurance agent. Whatta guy!

[Nanker]

I hear the HSN wants him to take Billy Mays place when he leaves office.

[Azalin]

I hear the HSN wants him to take Billy Mays place when he leaves office.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

MORE MOCKERY FOR SUDDENLY DECIDING A MANDATE DELAY IS FINE.

 

He’s an anarchist! A terrorist! It’s the law of the land!!!!! “

 

After forcing a shutdown by refusing to delay the individual mandate, beating back Senate Democrats’ attempt to rescue themselves and their constituents and insisting all was fine, the administration has now agreed only a few days before Christmas to allow those to whom the president lied (‘You can keep your insurance’) to avoid the mandate and instead buy low-cost catastrophic plans, the ones he has designated as subpar.

 

Trying spinning that, Obama fans.”

[IDBillzFan]

So POTUS is about to start a press conference after giving more waivers on Obamacare, and the site is crashed as his presser is about to start, and you have to wonder...will anyone bring it up to him? Or will they start off with Duck Dynasty first? Anyone laying some quick odds?