"The Culture of Failure"

[Uncle Monkeyhead]

It's funny how pieces like this upset some Bills fans. If all you want to read about is the feel-good moral victories and "upside" of this team, go straight to a Chris Brown article on BB.com. It amazes me when people on this board pout about ANY media piece that doesn't praise the team for playing "good enough" not to get blown out.

 

The Gleason article validates itself with every hurt feeling it produces.

There is a loser mentality when fans are ok with the moral victory acheived by losing a two point home opener to your biggest rival.

 

 

[BillsVet]

Spot on. This team has been overhauled top to bottom in the past year. Let's see what we got.

 

The on-field people have changed but promotions in the front office ensure some of the same faces remain.

 

There's a LOT of season left to begin formulating opinions on everyone. But giving someone a new title that's been a part of the organization doesn't clear them from criticism.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

there wasn't much booing from where I sat, but boy your right about the empty seats. As soon as we punted and gave them the ball with a few minutes left, everyone knew it. Which IMO, makes Buckys article completely believable and proven.

 

Bucky never talked about the end of the game.

 

He was trying to construct an argument that EJ needed to implore the Bills fans to be louder at the end of the 3rd quarter.

 

The Bills were on offense when the 3rd quarter ended.

 

I'm not defending idiot fans who leave early when they should be contributing to crowd noise but you're wrong about Bucky.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

I was there sunday.The old guy with the Kiko jersey.The crowd is not even close to the 90`s.Cell phones have made the youngsters,....bland. No social skills. No energy.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

It's funny how pieces like this upset some Bills fans. If all you want to read about is the feel-good moral victories and "upside" of this team, go straight to a Chris Brown article on BB.com. It amazes me when people on this board pout about ANY media piece that doesn't praise the team for playing "good enough" not to get blown out.

 

The Gleason article validates itself with every hurt feeling it produces.

There is a loser mentality when fans are ok with the moral victory acheived by losing a two point home opener to your biggest rival.

 

It's funny how some TBD posters have this binary attitude: we're either pining for "feel good moral victory" pieces and crapping our drawers for anything that doesn't praise the team, or we have to be down with craptastic "fighting a losing battle with culture of failure" pieces which (per eyewitnesses) inaccurately describe the actions of a rook QB and the crowd during the 1st game of the season. This wonderful binary attitude allows them to dismiss and condemn anything that they disagree with.

 

How about this: most of us do just fine with accurate and reasoned criticism, as can be seen by non-reaction to a number of articles that fairly describe negative aspects of the team's play on Sunday, and positive response to pieces on this board like "a few thoughts on the game in no particular order". Critique is fine. But our sense of fair play and accuracy is outraged by an article that puffs an inaccurate description of the crowd and the promising rookie into a sweeping negative generalization? That article is a prime example of a loser mentality on the part of the writer, and should get lost.

[CountryCletus]

 

 

Dallas Monday night was loudest I've ever heard it.

 

It was ear hurting loud.

 

Just awesome.

 

I agree, that's was my first game and I got season tix the next year... It also helped it was the first Monday night game in Buffalo in forever, and it was after 1pm, so people had PLENTY of time to shock their liver!!! Was a great time

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I was there sunday.The old guy with the Kiko jersey.The crowd is not even close to the 90`s.Cell phones have made the youngsters,....bland. No social skills. No energy.

 

While I don't disagree with your comment about cell phones, the seating capacity at the stadium is far smaller than it was during the Super Bowl years.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Wilson_Stadium#Seating_capacity

[CountryCletus]

I watched the game on television.

 

I noticed that when the Patriots were driving for their game winning field goal there were a lot of empty lower seats.

 

And I could swear I heard booing from the fans after the came finished.

Sorry, I had to pee...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I see planes from the Niagara Falls Air Reserve Base flying around town all the time.

 

whatever their budget allocates for training and certification.....are you telling me that just one of those missions couldn't be scheduled and coordinated to fly over the ralph on a sunday at 1 pm ?......sequestration is a total nonsense excuse.

 

Well, yes, I'll tell you that. Training missions take place over designated training areas and (with some exceptions) at higher altitude (of course the plane has to take off and get to said area flying over the city per usual). Flying over a public stadium at low altitude poses a different level of risk, and a different level of planning and training by pilots with special certification is required to earn the exception to the relevant federal regulations.

 

If a pilot, military or other, without said training and inadequate (low altitude, densely populated area) planning was sent on a flyover, had a mechanical and put the plane into the crowd, y'all would be first in line to barbeque the officials for allowing it.

 

Hopeful, pilot

Edited September 14, 2013 by Hopeful

[San Jose Bills Fan]

My take on the crowd:

 

It was the home opener of a new regime. One would expect a very loud crowd.

 

Was the crowd noise above average? I would say yes.

 

Was it as loud as I was hoping/expecting? I would say no.

 

Am I ever satisfied with the level of crowd noise at the stadium? No (however I wasn't at the Dallas MNF game).

 

Does it bother me that I have to shame other Bills fans into making noise during key junctures of the game by turning around and encouraging them when I'm simultaneously shouting/screaming AND clapping my hands or banging on a loud object? Yes it bothers the crap out of me.

 

Has my voice yet recovered from Sunday's game? It was more or less back to normal by Thursday.

 

 

Do I believe that fans can affect the outcome of games if they can generate enough noise? Obviously yes.

 

Does it bother me when fans leave early when our opponent is driving down the field for a potential game-winning score? What do you think?

 

Do I think that a fanbase that is honored as "The 12th Man" on the stadium ring have a greater obligation to make as much noise as they can during certain times in a game? Yes.

 

Do I agree with Bucky Gleason? No. To criticize the crowd for not being loud enough for his liking at the end of the 3rd quarter is silly, IMO.

 

Moreover I don't think the "culture of losing" has/had anything to do with the crowd performance.

Edited September 14, 2013 by San Jose Bills Fan

[Just Jack]

Entry : I went in a little after 11:30, no problem, only 4 people ahead of me to get wanded, the slow down was the old (70's? 80's?) guy emptying his pockets.

 

Noise : Was not as loud as previous games I've been to, but there were a lot of Patriots fans there, the was a large group in my section. So that didn't help. But there was a lot more sit/stand/sit going on during the 2nd half than the 1st half.

 

 

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Pay close attention to Gleason's bolded interpretations of the crowd.

 

Gleason is saying that the crowd is expecting to lose and that is why we weren't as loud as he thought we should be.

 

That is the thesis of his article:

 

The most poignant moment during EJ Manuel’s debut Sunday didn’t come after his first touchdown pass or after his first loss. It emerged at the end of the third quarter, when the rookie quarterback walked toward the sideline with a 21-17 lead over the Patriots and pleaded with a subdued crowd to provide a boost.

 

Manuel spread his arms wide, with his palms turned toward the heavens, waving his hands and urging reluctant fans to get involved. It was as if he begged them to forget about the past and fight through their fears, to climb aboard and join him in a new era that would be better than those in recent years.

Bills fans politely obliged with shallow enthusiasm, the way they do when players plead for support or the Jumbotron tells them it’s time to cheer. A few moments later, they returned to their natural thought process of wondering when and how – not if – Buffalo would blow another one to New England.

“This is my first year here,” Manuel said the other day during his weekly news conference, “so I’m not used to losing.”

You couldn’t help but appreciate his youthful innocence, but he obviously hadn’t been around long enough to understand the thinking in this town. Manuel thought fans were quiet going into the fourth quarter because they were being respectful of the Bills’ offense, which was on the field.

Actually, what he saw was 65,000 fans whose collective impulse was hoping for the best and bracing for the worst. The game was following a script all too familiar. Their restraint was part of a communal defense mechanism passed down for generations through years of disappointment.

 

http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive

[PearlHowardman]

.there were a lot of Patriots fans there...

 

For some reason CBS liked to show the Patriots fans in Buffalo on television. I thought a couple of times while watching the game on television that it was in Foxboro.

[mrags]

 

 

Bucky never talked about the end of the game.

 

He was trying to construct an argument that EJ needed to implore the Bills fans to be louder at the end of the 3rd quarter.

 

The Bills were on offense when the 3rd quarter ended.

 

I'm not defending idiot fans who leave early when they should be contributing to crowd noise but you're wrong about Bucky.

no offense, but your wrong. It was far from the loudest I've ever heard that place.

 

Ill say it again, and in assuming that Bucky feels the same way, considering all the "New Hope" we have right now, and a 2nd half lead of the Pats, the stadium was very mild considering what it could/should have been.

 

The Pats comeback game a few years ago was deafeningly loud. This game was nothing compared to it. Not even close. It felt almost no different than a regularly hyped game.

 

 

This is just my opinion. I know what others here are saying. But as my experience in going to games since 2006, It really wasn't that loud.

 

My take on the crowd:

 

It was the home opener of a new regime. One would expect a very loud crowd.

 

Was the crowd noise above average? I would say yes.

 

Was it as loud as I was hoping/expecting? I would say no.

 

Am I ever satisfied with the level of crowd noise at the stadium? No (however I wasn't at the Dallas MNF game).

 

Does it bother me that I have to shame other Bills fans into making noise during key junctures of the game by turning around and encouraging them when I'm simultaneously shouting/screaming AND clapping my hands or banging on a loud object? Yes it bothers the crap out of me.

 

Has my voice yet recovered from Sunday's game? It was more or less back to normal by Thursday.

 

 

Do I believe that fans can affect the outcome of games if they can generate enough noise? Obviously yes.

 

Does it bother me when fans leave early when our opponent is driving down the field for a potential game-winning score? What do you think?

 

Do I think that a fanbase that is honored as "The 12th Man" on the stadium ring have a greater obligation to make as much noise as they can during certain times in a game? Yes.

 

Do I agree with Bucky Gleason? No. To criticize the crowd for not being loud enough for his liking at the end of the 3rd quarter is silly, IMO.

 

Moreover I don't think the "culture of losing" has/had anything to do with the crowd performance.

damn it. I agree with this

[Just Jack]

A few moments later, they returned to their natural thought process of wondering when and how - not if - Buffalo would blow another one to New England.

 

So Bucky can read minds and knew exactly what everyone was thinking?

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Let me boil it down to this:

 

I think that Gleason's theory that it's a "culture of failure" which causes the paid attendees to not cheer more loudly is baloney.

 

BTW, I hadn't read Promo's topic until a few minutes ago and didn't realize it's the same topic so I hadn't read many of the valid opinions stated in that topic which also apply to this one.

[mrags]

Pay close attention to Gleason's bolded interpretations of the crowd.

 

Gleason is saying that the crowd is expecting to lose and that is why we weren't as loud as he thought we should be.

 

That is the thesis of his article:

 

The most poignant moment during EJ Manuel’s debut Sunday didn’t come after his first touchdown pass or after his first loss. It emerged at the end of the third quarter, when the rookie quarterback walked toward the sideline with a 21-17 lead over the Patriots and pleaded with a subdued crowd to provide a boost.

 

Manuel spread his arms wide, with his palms turned toward the heavens, waving his hands and urging reluctant fans to get involved. It was as if he begged them to forget about the past and fight through their fears, to climb aboard and join him in a new era that would be better than those in recent years.

Bills fans politely obliged with shallow enthusiasm, the way they do when players plead for support or the Jumbotron tells them it’s time to cheer. A few moments later, they returned to their natural thought process of wondering when and how – not if – Buffalo would blow another one to New England.

“This is my first year here,” Manuel said the other day during his weekly news conference, “so I’m not used to losing.”

You couldn’t help but appreciate his youthful innocence, but he obviously hadn’t been around long enough to understand the thinking in this town. Manuel thought fans were quiet going into the fourth quarter because they were being respectful of the Bills’ offense, which was on the field.

Actually, what he saw was 65,000 fans whose collective impulse was hoping for the best and bracing for the worst. The game was following a script all too familiar. Their restraint was part of a communal defense mechanism passed down for generations through years of disappointment.

 

http://www.buffalone...two-bills-drive

the bolder parts are pretty much what I agree with here. It was great seeing EJ get into the game and pump up the crowd. And IMO it was nothing more than that. Pumping up the crowd, showing that he's pumped and excited.

 

Did I think it was to make it louder, giving the impression that we weren't loud enough? No, not really. We weren't the loudest I've ever heard the place, but we were plenty loud.

 

At the same time, do I feel like there is a huge disconnect between the fans and the gameplay? Yes. Do I feel like many of the fans in the stadium need reminders on the Jumbotron, or for players to flail their arms in the air to get loud? Absolutely. It disgusts me that we aren't, or can't be loud at the right times. People are stupid enough to stand up and cheer and get obnoxiously loud even when were in offense. At the same time, people don't start to get loud until the ball is almost snapped on defense. You know what makes a difference on defense? Being loud when the opposing team is in the huddle. Being loud when they take a time out and are in the sidelines. Being loud while setting up on the LOS. Waiting until the ball is snapped is useless. As anyone that's played a sport can tell you that while in the heat of the play/race/moment in the game, almost everything else disappears. I ran track for 4 years in high school. I couldn't remember a single thing that happened in the middle of a race. I blocked everything else out. I have no doubts that these players block out the crowd noise once the ball is snapped b

 

Let me boil it down to this:

 

I think that Gleason's theory that it's a "culture of failure" which causes the paid attendees to not cheer more loudly is baloney.

 

BTW, I hadn't read Promo's topic until a few minutes ago and didn't realize it's the same topic so I hadn't read many of the valid opinions stated in that topic which also apply to this one.

i can tell you that I was deflated when the Bills punted with just a few minutes left. I absolutely KNEW that the Pats would match down and win the game. I was officially done at that point. Did I leave? No. Did I stop being loud? No. But that's the kind of person I am. But to all the "between the 20s" fans that only go because they got free tickets from their work, I firmly believe they left early or stopped cheering because that's who they are.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

^^^^^^^^

 

You know, the times I'm quietest during a game is when we score.

 

Because I know the crowd doesn't need my "help" at this point and I'm satisfied to be happy within (and let my vocal chords recover).

 

As you know, I sat in the first row upper deck in the first half and at the 40 yard line in row 21 on the Bills sideline in the 2nd half.

 

In the upper deck there were a lot of younger fans who didn't seem to understand the game and when to make noise.

 

In the lower bowl, there were a bunch of older "tired" fans who wanted us to sit down so they could watch the game.

 

As I said upthread, I'm never satisfied with the crowd noise level at the stadium but I don't think it has anything to do with a "culture of losing" that's making the fans quieter.

[mrags]

 

 

So Bucky can read minds and knew exactly what everyone was thinking?

if you didn't think they would or at least think they might blow it then I don't really know what to say. Sure it's a completely new regime, but with 13+ years of "blowing leads" how could you not think about it? I'm so tired of being worried even if its 3rd and 20 when were in defense it makes me sick.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

^^^^^^^^^^

 

Maybe I'm different from others but personally I don't let anything that happened more than a year ago affect how I cheer during a football game.