1 sack for the D-line

[34-78-83]

Sorry man but no coming back from your mistake. At least admit you have no idea what you're talking about. Brady got hit more then you will probably see any game this year. He doesn't get hit often but got knocked around. Even with the offense not producing they kept the Pats to 23 points. You look at the wrong stats with defenses.

 

You are a very stubborn person though so who really cares when you can't "understand".

 

This! ^^

[Mark Vader]

In post #28, Big Cat mentioned week one.

 

 

 

Then, you compared the amount of points the 2012 Jets (42 (actually, it was 48)) scored to the 2013 Patriots, that's a bad comparison. So using that logic, you are comparing the teams the Bills played in each week of last year? Using your logic, the Bills played the Chiefs in Week 2 last year and won 35, 17. Continuing with your logic, If the Bills do worse against Carolina, then does mean the team has regressed? http://www.nfl.com/s.../2012/REG/Bills

 

You made a bad comparison which cannot be answered. A better comparison would have been the two games played against the Pats last year, which that in itself is hard to do because of the transition the Pats went through (Welker gone, Gronk hurt, the Hernandez situation, new players, injuries (which can be said about the Bills as well), etc...) I still think the Pats are going to win the AFC East, but they are not the powerhouse that they were last year.

 

Did the Bills get more pressure than usual on Brady this past Sunday...absolutely! When you consider how pathetic the Bills pass rush has been over the past 10 years, the Bills defense did look great compared to that. But, with all of the investments the team made to bolster the D-line and shut down the opposing offense, they fell short as Brady was still able to complete 29 passes for 288 yards, and the Pats won again.

Once again, YOU are the one who brought up last years week 1 Jets game and broke down all the stats of it.

 

You don't believe me? Here is your post, once again:

 

Let's take a look at week 1 from last season: http://www.nfl.com/g...341&tab=analyze

 

So the Bills didn't sack Sanchez at all in that game, so 2 sacks on Brady would be considered an improvement. But, let's look at the other stats: Sanchez threw for 266 yards (Brady threw for 288), last year the Jets had 118 yards rushing while the Pats had 158 yards rushing...so that's an improvement huh?! The run defense still sucks!!! Did you see how many long runs the Pats had up the middle against the Bills yesterday, or were you watching the game? Brady has always played the dink and dunk game against the Bills and the Bills were still unable to stop Brady from doing that. Getting close to Brady and knocking him down after he threw the ball doesn't mean a damn thing if the Pats are completing passes, moving the chains and scoring points.

Yes I brought up the issue of Points against.

 

You, on the other hand, compared Sanchez's passing yards to Brady's.

 

You mention that the Bills did not sack Sanchez and sacked Brady twice.

 

You also talk about the Jets rushing yards as opposed to the Patriots rushing yards.

 

I put these statements in bold, so you can see what you wrote.

 

You say that I make a bad comparison with these two games by pointing out the points against, and yet, you point out passing yards and rushing yards. And I'm the one making a bad comparison?!

 

You also said "A better comparison would have been the two games played against the Pats last year." Fine. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

 

I guess you will probably claim ignorance on this subject, since after all it was Big Cat who brought up this whole subject. Even though he didn't.

 

I wonder who else you will blame next.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Mark Vader

[8-8 Forever?]

We generated a lot of pressure. And the pats have a great o-line.

I liked what they did pressure wise - were in the backfield all day. The expansion team showed well on Sunday. They keep doing that, they will be competitive in every game, maybe win a few. Here's hoping.

[offsides#76FredSmerlas]

Final score is the only thing that matters, and the Bills defense got lucky the Pats receivers dropped a lot of passes, otherwise the game wouldn't have been close. If the Pats destroy the Bills in their second matchup, I definitely plan on bringing up this thread again just so I can rub it in and tell everyone "I told you so." If the Bills by some chance beat the Pats, and the Bills defense plays lights out, then I will eat a big bowl of crow...fair enough?!

 

And the Jets comparison was in response to a couple of posters that kept comparing Sundays game to last years season opener, which I've already stated a few times already.

and if the Bills didn't drop a bunch of passes, and didn't have a bunch of penalties, and didn't turn the ball over it wouldn't have been close and the Bills would have crushed them. So, anybody could say if they did the "what ifs" better it wouldn't have been close. You can say that about every game every week, really Jabber be serious!!!

 

Pressure is great if it results in turnovers. If you aren't getting turnovers out of the pressure then I would much prefer a sack. Too many times teams are able to pressure Brady only to lose the game. That said, against Brady I prefer sacks as he tends to still beat us even when he is knocked around all game. I do think there is a valid point to be made ragarding the pressure he received as a result of his receivers being confused or rookies.

 

I think an identical game against Newton this weekend will result in multiple picks if the DBs are in position.

so pressuring Brady and having him only complete 55% of his passes is not a direct affect of great pressure. seriously! turnovers are vital but incompletions are huge, especially on 3rd downs. I bet Brady doesn't missfire and only complete 55% of his passes to many times this year. Edited September 11, 2013 by offsides#76FredSmerlas

[Jerry Jabber]

Once again, YOU are the one who brought up last years week 1 Jets game and broke down all the stats of it.

 

You don't believe me? Here is your post, once again:

 

 

Yes I brought up the issue of Points against.

 

You, on the other hand, compared Sanchez's passing yards to Brady's.

 

You mention that the Bills did not sack Sanchez and sacked Brady twice.

 

You also talk about the Jets rushing yards as opposed to the Patriots rushing yards.

 

I put these statements in bold, so you can see what you wrote.

 

You say that I make a bad comparison with these two games by pointing out the points against, and yet, you point out passing yards and rushing yards. And I'm the one making a bad comparison?!

 

You also said "A better comparison would have been the two games played against the Pats last year." Fine. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

 

I guess you will probably claim ignorance on this subject, since after all it was Big Cat who brought up this whole subject. Even though he didn't.

 

I wonder who else you will blame next.

 

I already stated that the post was in response to Big Cat's post of him comparing it to last year's season opener (which was the reason I looked up the stats and compared). You then posted this:

 

One stat you left out: Points.

Week 1 2012 Jets 42

Week 1 2013 Patriots 23

 

Not an improvement?

 

You also compared the points comparison as well, but you don't get it, so that's fine, so keep rambling on...

[Jerry Jabber]

It would only be shocking if he actually made a valid argument... He didn't, he actually doesn't even know what QB pressure is which should have red flagged this thread immediately.

 

Still waiting on a response Coach...

 

In regards to the pressure I saw on Sunday, I saw the Bills get 2 sacks, made Brady either throw the ball away or make some bad plays on occasion. In regards why I started this thread, which Chimp has reinforced my point, with all the investments we've seen on the defensive front 7, this was nowhere near the amount of pressure that we should of had against Brady. Mario Williams is the highest paid defensive player in the NFL, with that kind of money, you should expect JJ Watt type of production from him (sacks, pressures, swatting the ball away) which we didn't see from him on Sunday. Dareus was selected 3rd overall to shore up the run game and destroy the O-lines, while he made a few tackles and had a pass knocked down, he didn't get any pressure and I saw him get thrown on his azz by a Pats O-lineman. We traded for Jerry Hughes and the only thing he did was get 2 offsides penalties. Alex Carrington, a 3rd round draft pick, looked like the 2nd coming of Chris Kelsay (over pursuit, having to circle around, not getting close to the QB). Kyle Williams had a sack and a few tackles, so he had a good (but not great) game. Did anyone notice Manny Lawson, because I sure as hell didn't.

 

In regards to what "pressure" is on the QB, my definition of it is, sacking the QB, forcing him to throw it either: away; too quickly; making a bad-decision, hitting the QB's throwing arm (or the ball), getting arms, hands & bodies in the QB's throwing lanes and altering the direction of the pass, hitting the QB while he is in throwing motion which causes a fumble. What I saw on Sunday was 2 sacks, the Bills forced Brady into some throws where he had to throw it away, and hitting Brady a second too late after Brady delivered the ball which went for a completion. I didn't see any tipped balls, Brady getting hit in the arm/hand which changed the direction of the ball, or got hit which caused a fumble. While that is an improvement over what we've seen from the Bills over the past 10 years, that was still nowhere near enough, especially when you consider what the Bills invested in the D-line and how hyped up this line has been talked up about since last year.

[The Big Cat]

Still waiting on a response Coach...

 

In regards to the pressure I saw on Sunday, I saw the Bills get 2 sacks, made Brady either throw the ball away or make some bad plays on occasion. In regards why I started this thread, which Chimp has reinforced my point, with all the investments we've seen on the defensive front 7, this was nowhere near the amount of pressure that we should of had against Brady. Mario Williams is the highest paid defensive player in the NFL, with that kind of money, you should expect JJ Watt type of production from him (sacks, pressures, swatting the ball away) which we didn't see from him on Sunday. Dareus was selected 3rd overall to shore up the run game and destroy the O-lines, while he made a few tackles and had a pass knocked down, he didn't get any pressure and I saw him get thrown on his azz by a Pats O-lineman. We traded for Jerry Hughes and the only thing he did was get 2 offsides penalties. Alex Carrington, a 3rd round draft pick, looked like the 2nd coming of Chris Kelsay (over pursuit, having to circle around, not getting close to the QB). Kyle Williams had a sack and a few tackles, so he had a good (but not great) game. Did anyone notice Manny Lawson, because I sure as hell didn't.

 

In regards to what "pressure" is on the QB, my definition of it is, sacking the QB, forcing him to throw it either: away; too quickly; making a bad-decision, hitting the QB's throwing arm (or the ball), getting arms, hands & bodies in the QB's throwing lanes and altering the direction of the pass, hitting the QB while he is in throwing motion which causes a fumble. What I saw on Sunday was 2 sacks, the Bills forced Brady into some throws where he had to throw it away, and hitting Brady a second too late after Brady delivered the ball which went for a completion. I didn't see any tipped balls, Brady getting hit in the arm/hand which changed the direction of the ball, or got hit which caused a fumble. While that is an improvement over what we've seen from the Bills over the past 10 years, that was still nowhere near enough, especially when you consider what the Bills invested in the D-line and how hyped up this line has been talked up about since last year.

 

This will go down as one of the most epic TSW performances...of all time.

[K-9]

Still waiting on a response Coach...

 

In regards to the pressure I saw on Sunday, I saw the Bills get 2 sacks, made Brady either throw the ball away or make some bad plays on occasion. In regards why I started this thread, which Chimp has reinforced my point, with all the investments we've seen on the defensive front 7, this was nowhere near the amount of pressure that we should of had against Brady. Mario Williams is the highest paid defensive player in the NFL, with that kind of money, you should expect JJ Watt type of production from him (sacks, pressures, swatting the ball away) which we didn't see from him on Sunday. Dareus was selected 3rd overall to shore up the run game and destroy the O-lines, while he made a few tackles and had a pass knocked down, he didn't get any pressure and I saw him get thrown on his azz by a Pats O-lineman. We traded for Jerry Hughes and the only thing he did was get 2 offsides penalties. Alex Carrington, a 3rd round draft pick, looked like the 2nd coming of Chris Kelsay (over pursuit, having to circle around, not getting close to the QB). Kyle Williams had a sack and a few tackles, so he had a good (but not great) game. Did anyone notice Manny Lawson, because I sure as hell didn't.

 

In regards to what "pressure" is on the QB, my definition of it is, sacking the QB, forcing him to throw it either: away; too quickly; making a bad-decision, hitting the QB's throwing arm (or the ball), getting arms, hands & bodies in the QB's throwing lanes and altering the direction of the pass, hitting the QB while he is in throwing motion which causes a fumble. What I saw on Sunday was 2 sacks, the Bills forced Brady into some throws where he had to throw it away, and hitting Brady a second too late after Brady delivered the ball which went for a completion. I didn't see any tipped balls, Brady getting hit in the arm/hand which changed the direction of the ball, or got hit which caused a fumble. While that is an improvement over what we've seen from the Bills over the past 10 years, that was still nowhere near enough, especially when you consider what the Bills invested in the D-line and how hyped up this line has been talked up about since last year.

 

You don't watch a lot of football, do you? That's not an insult and I hope you don't take it that way. But this post really paints a naive picture of football in general and Sunday's game in particular. I literally feel as though we watched two completely different games.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Jerry Jabber]

You don't watch a lot of football, do you? That's not an insult and I hope you don't take it that way. But this post really paints a naive picture of football in general and Sunday's game in particular. I literally feel as though we watched two completely different games.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Actually, I watch a lot of football and watch the NFL network almost on a daily basis. I see other teams that have great defenses and great pass rushes, and that's what I'm comparing the Bills to. When you watch a terrible defense for so long, and the team shows improvement like it did on Sunday, it makes thing look a lot better. In this case, I feel people like yourself are over-exaggerating the defense's performance on Sunday.

[K-9]

Actually, I watch a lot of football and watch the NFL network almost on a daily basis. I see other teams that have great defenses and great pass rushes, and that's what I'm comparing the Bills to. When you watch a terrible defense for so long, and the team shows improvement like it did on Sunday, it makes thing look a lot better. In this case, I feel people like yourself are over-exaggerating the defense's performance on Sunday.

 

First of all, I don't think I've opined anywhere about my feelings of the defensive performance on Sunday. I saw far more that I didn't like than I liked but that's besides the point. No need to go into it, you've already outdone yourself. It will just suffice to say, they did as good a job at pressuring Brady as anyone since the Giants SB. He was uncomfortable most of the day, especially after Jerry Hughes, the player you say did nothing, put him on his ass. Hard. Pressures and hits add up. And had we been able to make him even more one-dimensional, it would have been worse for him. Someone who purports to watch as much of the game as you do would know that.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Jerry Jabber]

First of all, I don't think I've opined anywhere about my feelings of the defensive performance on Sunday. I saw far more that I didn't like than I liked but that's besides the point. No need to go into it, you've already outdone yourself. It will just suffice to say, they did as good a job at pressuring Brady as anyone since the Giants SB. He was uncomfortable most of the day, especially after Jerry Hughes, the player you say did nothing, put him on his ass. Hard. Pressures and hits add up. "And had we been able to make him even more one-dimensional, it would have been worse for him. Someone who purports to watch as much of the game as you do would know that."

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

That's another problem I had with the Bills, is that their run defense, especially up the middle is still a problem. That also goes into my problem with the defense, with all the investments in the front 7, the run defense up the middle still sucks!! You talked about all the hits Brady took, well how effective were those hits on the final drive of the game? If I'm not mistaken, Brady completed all of his passes on that final drive with a lot of time to spare. You can say it was Marrone's & Hackett's fault for clock management on the Bills final drive (which I would agree) as well as not doing more offensively, but the Bills defense failed to do their jobs as well on that final drive.

[Chimp]

That's another problem I had with the Bills, is that their run defense, especially up the middle is still a problem. That also goes into my problem with the defense, with all the investments in the front 7, the run defense up the middle still sucks!! You talked about all the hits Brady took, well how effective were those hits on the final drive of the game? If I'm not mistaken, Brady completed all of his passes on that final drive with a lot of time to spare. You can say it was Marrone's & Hackett's fault for clock management on the Bills final drive (which I would agree) as well as not doing more offensively, but the Bills defense failed to do their jobs as well on that final drive.

 

It doesn't matter how much one argues whether or not the Bills D did this or that well enough. The single thread that runs through the response of almost every person on this board is that they are so much better than they were. To that I am sure we can probably all agree there are parts of the D that are better when compared to the Bills of the last decade. How about as a collective fanbase we compare them to other teams that they play against in the NFL?

[The Big Cat]

That's another problem I had with the Bills, is that their run defense, especially up the middle is still a problem. That also goes into my problem with the defense, with all the investments in the front 7, the run defense up the middle still sucks!! You talked about all the hits Brady took, well how effective were those hits on the final drive of the game? If I'm not mistaken, Brady completed all of his passes on that final drive with a lot of time to spare. You can say it was Marrone's & Hackett's fault for clock management on the Bills final drive (which I would agree) as well as not doing more offensively, but the Bills defense failed to do their jobs as well on that final drive.

 

20+: 2

15-19: 1

10-15: 3

5-10: 3

2-5: 12

0-1: 11

-0: 3

 

For the most part, the run D was not that bad. I know, this time you're going by the eyes test, and stats mean nothing, just thought I'd try.

 

A total of 19 runs for 3 yards or less.

[Mark Vader]

I already stated that the post was in response to Big Cat's post of him comparing it to last year's season opener (which was the reason I looked up the stats and compared). You then posted this:

 

 

 

You also compared the points comparison as well, but you don't get it, so that's fine, so keep rambling on...

Yes I get it.

 

I added more stats to those two games as a comparison, just as you did with yours.

 

We did the exact same thing, but you accuse me of doing something completely different, which is not true.

[Jerry Jabber]

20+: 2

15-19: 1

10-15: 3

5-10: 3

2-5: 12

0-1: 11

-0: 3

 

For the most part, the run D was not that bad. I know, this time you're going by the eyes test, and stats mean nothing, just thought I'd try.

 

A total of 19 runs for 3 yards or less.

 

Thanks for the breakdown. Where I was impressed with the run defense on the edges of both sides. The middle of the field is still a concern.

[The Big Cat]

Thanks for the breakdown. Where I was impressed with the run defense on the edges of both sides. The middle of the field is still a concern.

 

From one analysis I read, at least one of those big bursts falls squarely on MDareus for getting blown up and knocked over...

[Jerry Jabber]

Yes I get it.

 

I added more stats to those two games as a comparison, just as you did with yours.

 

We did the exact same thing, but you accuse me of doing something completely different, which is not true.

 

Maybe we just misunderstood what we were trying to say to each other, that tends to happen on the internet vice an actual conversation on the phone or in person. I'm not gonna lie and say the Bills didn't improve on defense, but with all of the investments the team made, I was expecting more, especially against a reeling Patriots team. I'm hoping Dareus will be motivated to play Carolina (as he stated to the Commish when we drafted him), and we will see the Bills win on Sunday.

 

From one analysis I read, at least one of those big bursts falls squarely on MDareus for getting blown up and knocked over...

 

I couldn't tell if Dareus was single or double-teamed on that play, but he definitely was thrown on his butt big time.

[K-9]

That's another problem I had with the Bills, is that their run defense, especially up the middle is still a problem. That also goes into my problem with the defense, with all the investments in the front 7, the run defense up the middle still sucks!! You talked about all the hits Brady took, well how effective were those hits on the final drive of the game? If I'm not mistaken, Brady completed all of his passes on that final drive with a lot of time to spare. You can say it was Marrone's & Hackett's fault for clock management on the Bills final drive (which I would agree) as well as not doing more offensively, but the Bills defense failed to do their jobs as well on that final drive.

 

Christ, Jerry. Sometimes, a Hall of Fame QB performs like a Hall of Fame QB. You have to give some credit to Brady for that drive as well. But like I said, I saw more negatives than positives by our defense. I'll let it go at that.

 

GO BILLS!!!